the summoner

[YPU]

One of my players want to play a summoner. This is a homebrew class based on pokemon. Not getting into the discussion on the fluff of this class please, but I hope that somebody can give me a good assessment wetter or not this is a viable class. It seems ok to me for this reason: a character has a CR equal to his effective character level. This class allows you to control a challenge of one lower then your own. Thus it takes into account the versatility of the different monsters. It seems ok to me, but what do you people think?

[Exil3dbyrd]

I am not the most experienced DM but my reaction is that they have a few powerful abilities and a few abilities that are a real pain.
Monster deaths would seriously hurt a low level player until they get to a level where they can rez their creatures. I would allow it if the player really wanted to use it and just use rule zero to keep things from possibly getting out of hand.

Things to watch for or change are the Evolve Monster, Full monster entry, Increased awareness, & Craft Master Prison.

[Fixer]

Where the hell are the saving throws? At best the Willpower should be favored. If you are feeling generous, allow Reflex as well to be favored.

Lose Speak Language and knowledge (arcana) as class skills.

WHY would such a class need a ¾BAB progression? Drop it to ½BAB.

Increased Awareness is not appropriate. Remove the part about increasing intelligence. The alignment shift part should be opposed: Creature gets an opposed Willpower save.

The Dread Lore ability should be a class ability check and not related to ranks in a skill. Make it Wisdom + Class Level vs. DC = 15 + CR of monster.

Craft Master Prison should be a level 17 ability, on par with 9th level spells.

[YPU]

Where the hell are the saving throws? At best the Willpower should be favored. If you are feeling generous, allow Reflex as well to be favored.

it has good reflex and bad others, but indeed good will would be more apropriate, its suposed to be a magic type afther all.

Lose Speak Language and knowledge (arcana) as class skills.

speak language, jep. arcane no, its suposed to be a mage type in my game.

WHY would such a class need a ¾BAB progression? Drop it to ½BAB.

to hit things with the prison thingy's, thats why.

Increased Awareness is not appropriate. Remove the part about increasing intelligence. The alignment shift part should be opposed: Creature gets an opposed Willpower save.

the intelegence thing, i totaly agree. and the opsed save i agree as well.

The Dread Lore ability should be a class ability check and not related to ranks in a skill. Make it Wisdom + Class Level vs. DC = 15 + CR of monster.

perhaps more like bardic knowledge, a singergy added by skills?

Craft Master Prison should be a level 17 ability, on par with 9th level spells.

right now we will be using the class at level 6, so thats a worry for later times.

[PinkysBrain]

Let's take a Ravid ... CR5 critter, casts animate object at CL20. Normally too stupid to make much use of that, but when controlled by a PC?

I'd drastically lower the max CR (look at the SM list for appropriate levels) and even then you are going to run into things like the Ravid.

[Fixer]

to hit things with the prison thingy's, thats why.

Aren't they touch attacks?

[YPU]

Aren't they touch attacks?

yes, but they still work with base attack bonus, tough touch attacks are easy to make. you are right about the special abilety's. perhaps the rules on no sumoned creatures should be extended to no extra creatures, so no animate or spawn.
still, the DM should keep good track of this sort of loops, if you think it trough it is posible, yes?

[Fixer]

This sort of class can easily be controlled by a GM. Simply deny the PC access to any monster they don't want him/her to have. If you cannot capture it, you cannot use it. If you never encounter it, you cannot capture it. Might limit the GM toolbox a bit but there are usually more than enough monsters available.

Although, adding in that if a creature has an SU or SP ability usable at a certain caster level, that caster level would be used in the place of CR if higher for determining whether or not it can be controlled.

[PinkysBrain]

That's not a bad idea actually, limit CL on Sp/Su to summoner caster level. Su and Sp abilities with equivalent spell level of higher then (cl+1)/2 can't be used and if the equivalent spell has a XP or expensive material component it can't be used either. That would curtail most of the abuse.