Need a Batman type Fighter FR Setting

[KoDT69]

So I recently joined a new D&D group as a player (I normally DM a different group) and have decided to go with the sub-optimal role of the Fighter. There are already 3 full casters and a good rogue, so I'm going for decent damage output. I have 14 levels to work with and it's set in Forgotten Realms, so that material is available too.

Here's my concept. This fighter will be the always prepared for anything survivalist/tactician/battlefield control. He will make use of all terraine advantages and pull off crazy stunts to win the fight. He should be as self-sufficient as possible. I threw a character together around this for the first night but am allowed to spend time reworking my skill/feat/class selections. Right now he is 14th level pure fighter. So far he has feats like spring attack, improved disarm, sunder, power attack, improved trip, improved crit. He uses a scimitar so far. I was thinking the next levels taking rogue for evasion and sneak attack dice.

If you were to build a 14th level fighter type character, what would you make? He's human so don't forget the bonus feat and skill points!

Excluded books: Tome of Battle

[Skjaldbakka]

If you're going into rogue, I'd recommend starting earlier than 15th level. I am at a loss as to what to do with that many feats. I'll give it a shot anyway:

H:Power Attack (the Important One)
1:Stand Still (a must-have for battlefield control)
1F:Combat Expertise
2F:Improved Disarm
3:Improved Feint
4F:Improved Trip
6:Combat Reflexes
6F:Quickdraw
8F:Improved Overrun
9: Blind-Fight
10F: Improved Sunder
Start taking Rogue Levels

EDIT: you should probably work I. Critical in there too, unless you want to buy a scabbard of keen edges, a keen scimitar, or bum a keen edge spell of off your party with three full casters in it. Also, if there is a druid in this full-caster group, just take toughness for all your feats and cry -you're not gonna be able to compete with that, so why bother trying.

EDIT Mark 2: I would recommend against I. Crit until you get an animated sheild, because you're gonna want to upgrade to Falchion at that point for greater PA returns.

*cough*EDIT*cough*
I would honestly recommend picking up a reach weapon. You don't have to go Spiked Chain level cheesiness- but Combat Reflexes+Power Attack+Stand Still can make it really hard to move up to the wizard you're standing next to. And that doesn't even bring into account the spells the wizard likely has to protect his soft fleshy bits from meeting the sharp pointy bits.

[Zincorium]

Personally, Rogue 3/Swasbuckler 11 with the Daring Outlaw feat from complete adventurer, or possibly break off at swash 3-7 to go into invisible blade if fighting with two daggers intrigues you. Dervish is also a possibility.

The reasoning behind this is that since you're not going fully into a power attacking or a specialized battlefield control fighter (the lack of spiked chain/guisarme kind of gives it away), you will be barely filling your role without some other advantage. With almost full BAB and both intelligence and up to 7 sneak attack dice to damage, you can afford to not be as strong or wield massive weapons. You've already got a rogue, so get flankin'!

Alternately, you can keep much of your current setup, and use a spiked chain. As cheesy as it is, it's one of the best ways to take advantage of tripping/disarming and the power attack tree at the same time. You can also spend a level on Exotic Weapon Master to flurry with it for an additional attack.

Spring attack is almost never a good idea, not only because it generally just ends up meaning you get charged every turn and only get one attack yourself, but because dodge is so bad it might as well kill puppies and mobility is trumped by the tumble skill in pretty much every situation it might be meaningful.

Basically, you're trying to be a generalist, and D&D is one of the worst possible systems for that kind of thing. I'm trying to help, but this is one of those things where the DM can make or break your character without even realizing it.

[Skjaldbakka]

Spring Attack is arguably worth it for a fighter, due to its ability to get you through a monster's reach w/o an AoO. It's not like fighters are short feats, especially by 14th level.

[CASTLEMIKE]

It would be worth taking a flaw to take the general Spellfire Wielder feat from Magic of Faerun.

A Warblade could be interesting (5 Levels) with a Two - Four level dip in Fighter and a Two level dip in Swordsage (Make it just one level if you are going to pursue the Rogue/Ninja levels and take a level of Monk with the Ascetic Monk feat for stacking those attacks) for instead of straight Fighter.

Using the spellcaster variant say a Battle Spellcaster you could take Evasion or Turning to empower DMM like Fast Healing 1 with your bonus feat.

A level of Rogue and Ninja for Sneak Attack and Sudden Strike stacking.

[BardicDuelist]

Not only is Spellfire Wielder rather powerful, it requires DM approval.

If your DM will let you take it, do so, no matter what your character build is. It can never do you wrong mechanically. From a story perspective, it can however, since if somone has spellfire in FR, they tend to get hunted.

[CASTLEMIKE]

Not only is Spellfire Wielder rather powerful, it requires DM approval.

I figured it was a good single feat choice that is useful at all levels and meets his posting criteria.

[BardicDuelist]

Ok, I agree it is a good choice and useful at all levels, I just didn't think it was an option.

[Matthew]

Some sort of Power Attack/Leap Attack/Shock Trooper thing for starters, I would imagine.

[CaptainSam]

If you're looking for a vigilante-type character, why not got for the Vigilante from Complete Adventurer?

[Roderick_BR]

Not only is Spellfire Wielder rather powerful, it requires DM approval.

If your DM will let you take it, do so, no matter what your character build is. It can never do you wrong mechanically. From a story perspective, it can however, since if somone has spellfire in FR, they tend to get hunted.

Oh, crap! I have Spellfire, Magic, Yugioh, and Pokemon!

*Runs from the angry mob because of the bad puns*

[Person_Man]

Standard uber charge technique:
Power Attack
Leap Attack
Improved Bull Rush
Shock Trooper
Headlong Rush: Races of Faerun
Battle Jump: Unapproachable East

*3 damage on your charge. Be sure to use a reach weapon. Requires that you be an orc or half orc.

Knockback (Races of Stone) with the Dungeon Crasher ability (Dungeonscape): Gives you a free Bull Rush with every attack. If you hit someone into a wall, they take 8d6 + 3*Str damage, in addition to the damage from your initial attack. Requires that you be Large size or have the Powerful Build ability (Goliath, Half Gaint).

Dodge + Karmic Stike + Robilar's Gambit (PHBII): Enemy hits you, you get two free AoO. Simple, powerful, useful.

Mage Slayer + Ring of Blinking + Pierce Magical Concealment (Complete Arcane): Mage Slayer prevents any caster you threaten from casting defensively. Ring of Blinking gives you 50% concealment. Pierce Magical Concealment allows you to ignore the miss chance from any magical effect, including all the spellcasters you'll be killing, and the 20% miss chance that would normally hamper you from using your Ring of Blinking.

Thri-Kreen + Multiweapon Fighting + Improved Unarmed Stike + Improved Disarm + Snatch Weapon (Champions of Ruin): You have a bunch arms. You can hit with all of them (and your bite attack). Since you're using unarmed strikes, they all count as light weapons for Multi fighting, and for Power Attack to get your damage bonus, and you can easily have their damage pumped up via various magic items and feats. Whenever you make a successful Disarm attempt, Snatch Weapon let's you catch it (rendering any enemy who relies on a weapon useless) as a free action and get an AoO with that weapon. Works great with Hold the Line (Complete Warrior) which gives you an AoO whenever someone charges you, as you can Disarm and hit them with their own weapon before they can even swing at you.

[KoDT69]

Here's a bit more background info:
The group specifically requested a Fighter because they're not a bunch of powergamers and focus more on flavor and storyline than anything. There are a few house rules in place, on of which alters Spring Attack. It grants full movement each round and a full attack action in this group. I kinda like that and in the first night of play made good use of it and Combat Reflexes
I'm not big on 2 hander weapons even though they are superior on damage. I prefer for this character to have a one-hander and an open hand. He's a daredevil and always make use of the free hand during combat. It also allows for putting the open hand on the weapon when not needed elsewhere to gain the PA benefits.

Some of his gear includes: (150,000gp to work with open to alternate suggestions)
+5 full plate, glamered, silent moves (appears as normal clothes so it is underestimated as unarmored, and silent to support the illusion)
+3 keen flaming scimitar
Boots of Flying
Cloak of Arachnidia
500lbs Bag of Holding
Decanter of Endless Water
Ring of Sustenance
+4 Belt of Giant Strength
Various mundane items - Chains, ropes, torches, chalk, climbing gear, bedroll, hammer, crowbar, yadda yadda yadda

Apparently I'll have to convince the DM to use the complete warrior too, he doesn't own it and is apprehensive to let it fly

[Wolfwood2]

Here's my concept. This fighter will be the always prepared for anything survivalist/tactician/battlefield control. He will make use of all terraine advantages and pull off crazy stunts to win the fight. He should be as self-sufficient as possible. I threw a character together around this for the first night but am allowed to spend time reworking my skill/feat/class selections. Right now he is 14th level pure fighter. So far he has feats like spring attack, improved disarm, sunder, power attack, improved trip, improved crit. He uses a scimitar so far. I was thinking the next levels taking rogue for evasion and sneak attack dice.

If you were to build a 14th level fighter type character, what would you make? He's human so don't forget the bonus feat and skill points!

Excluded books: Tome of Battle

I'd suggest going Ranger 10/Monk 2/Fighter 2.

Wear light armor. Get Improved Grapple and Combat Reflexes as your two monk bonus feats. They and the Unarmed strike will work fine in armor, giving you the equivalent of 3 feats and excellent saving throws for those two monk levels; a good deal for Batman.

As a Ranger, take the archery combat style. A handful of posioned shuriken and rapid shot can be a great opener. Concentrate your skill points on climbing and jumping and hide/move silently and spot and such. Take your two levels of monk later in the progression and you can get your Tumble skill reasonably high by pumping all your monks points into it. Take Humans as your favored enemy.

That still leaves you with eight feats from your normal level progression + the two fighter levels. Plenty to give you some nice combat flexibility.

[cupkeyk]

I have two suggestions.

One is asking your DM to use a non FR race, the changeling from the Eberron Campaign Setting, otherwise You can just use a an afflicted were rat and pay off the LA later so you would be set back only by the one hit die of animal later on. Unless you can find a creature with the shapchanger subtype. Basically

Race: any with the shapechanger subtype
Fighter 1 Combat Expertise, Improved Trip
Fighter 2 Knockdown
Fighter 3 Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Spiked Chain)
Fighter 4
Warshaper 1
Warshaper 2
Warshaper 3
Warshaper 4
Exotic Weapon Master 1
Exotic Weapon Master 2
Exotic Weapon Master 3

This build has superior reach for maximized tripping possibilities.

The second one is:
Race: Half-Orc
Fighter 1: Power Attack, Improved Bullrush
Fighter 2: Cleave
Fighter 3: Improved Sunder
Fighter 4: Shock Trooper
Fighter 5: --
Fighter 6: Leap Attack, Brutal Strike
Fighter 8: Combat Brute
Fighter 9: Ability Focus (Brutal Strike)

When leap attacking, your Brutal Strike DC's are at 28 at level 6 and will only go up. Nothing of your CR rating will be able to shove off the sickened effect save of a roll of a twenty, or if they are immune. The Leap Attack also triggers Momentum Blow so you can finish them off next round. If they move away while sickened, they are stupid cause they are just gearing up for another leap attack.

Or

Take Improved Shield Bash, Shield Charge, Shield Slam and Ability Focus (Shield Slam), it has a more useful effect, dazed. Combine that with sand dancer from sandstorm and you can now also blind opponents but you will have to take the Skilled City dweller option from the Cityscape web enhancement to make tumble a class skill.

[Wolfwood2]

Or

Take Improved Shield Bash, Shield Charge, Shield Slam and Ability Focus (Shield Slam), it has a more useful effect, dazed. Combine that with sand dancer from sandstorm and you can now also blind opponents but you will have to take the Skilled City dweller option from the Cityscape web enhancement to make tumble a class skill.

Improved Shield Bash is useless without Two-Weapon Fighting. Otherwise you're crippling your attack bonus on all your attacks.

[JellyPooga]

Rogue 4 OR Scout 5 as a base nets you Evasion and Uncanny Dodge...essential for a more tactical fighter IMO. If you're really that fussed about getting Feats and the HP, go into Fighter and take stuff like Combat Expertise (and its friends; Improved Trip/Disarm/Feint), Power Attack (and its friends; Improved Bull Rush/Sunder), Hold the Line, Elusive Target, Shock Trooper, etc.

However, my advice for a Batman-esque fighter would be to go straight Scout with feats as follows:

Level 1) Expeditious Dodge, Side-Step Charge [Human Bonus Feat]
Level 3) Combat Relexes
Level 4) Mobility [Scout Bonus Feat]
Level 6) Hold the Line
Level 8) Dodge [Scout Bonus Feat]
Level 9) Elusive Target
Level 12) Combat Expertise [Scout Bonus Feat], Improved Trip

Put high numbers in Str, Dex and Con, use a 2-handed weapon (I recommend Spear or Longspear) and run hither-and-thither across the battlefield into and out of as many threatened spaces as possible and in between as many foes as possible (so that they flank you as you pass between them). With the above build you get the following advantages:

1)Every time you leave a threatened space and they miss, you get to Trip someone (Elusive Target).

2)Every time you Trip someone, you get to attack them whilst they're prone (Improved Trip).

3)Every time you run between 2 foes and they get an AOO against you, they automatically attack their Ally rather than you (Elusive Target).

4)Any time someone charges you, first you get an AOO against them (Hold the Line) and then you get a massive bonus to AC; if they miss, you get to trip them again (Side-step Charge) and attack them again if it succeeds (Improved Trip).

5)The fact that you only get to use the Attack action (as opposed to Full-Attack) is fairly irrelevant because most of your attacks will come from provoking AOO from your enemies...and don't forget that every attack you make during your turn, after moving 10ft, gets Skirmish damage. Chuck a load of extra damage enhancements on your weapon of choice (flaming, shock, etc.) and watch the damage potential skyrocket

6)Expeditious Dodge + Dodge + Skirmish + Mobility/Side-step Charge means that your AC could well be somewhere near the stratosphere with the right armour and equipment (I recommend Celestial Armour: +8 Armour bonus combined with Gloves of Dexterity to make the most of the +8 Max Dex bonus).

7)Flawless Stride means that you can quite happily bimble around a cluttered battlefield as easily as if it were an even surface.

8)High skill points and the Scout skill list makes you pretty "self-sufficient" (Survival and Knowleges) and much more mobile (Balance, Tumble, Climb, Escape Artist, Jump, Use Rope) than the Fighter option (which only has Climb and Jump).

9)Uncanny Dodge, Evasion and Battle Fortitude help prevent you from being caught with your pants down and the option of picking up Improved Initiative and/or Quick Reconnoitre as Bonus Feats later enhance this. d8 HD and a high Con should be more than enough HP to withstand the few blows that do manage to hit you.


I confess that I have not tested this build and only thought it up earlier today, but theoretically it should work and prove to be quite effective and I think it fits the style of fighter you requested in the OP.

[Telonius]

So I recently joined a new D&D group as a player (I normally DM a different group) and have decided to go with the sub-optimal role of the Fighter. There are already 3 full casters and a good rogue, so I'm going for decent damage output. I have 14 levels to work with and it's set in Forgotten Realms, so that material is available too.

Here's my concept. This fighter will be the always prepared for anything survivalist/tactician/battlefield control. He will make use of all terraine advantages and pull off crazy stunts to win the fight. He should be as self-sufficient as possible. I threw a character together around this for the first night but am allowed to spend time reworking my skill/feat/class selections. Right now he is 14th level pure fighter. So far he has feats like spring attack, improved disarm, sunder, power attack, improved trip, improved crit. He uses a scimitar so far. I was thinking the next levels taking rogue for evasion and sneak attack dice.

If you were to build a 14th level fighter type character, what would you make? He's human so don't forget the bonus feat and skill points!

Excluded books: Tome of Battle

The bolded parts leapt out at me. Have you looked at the "Horizon Walker" PrC from the DMG? It seems to fit the flavor pretty well. I'd go Ranger3/Fighter x/Horizon Walker x, in that order, if I were building him from scratch.

[tannish2]

I have two suggestions.

One is asking your DM to use a non FR race, the changeling from the Eberron Campaign Setting, otherwise You can just use a an afflicted were rat and pay off the LA later so you would be set back only by the one hit die of animal later on. Unless you can find a creature with the shapchanger subtype.

i dont remember if he wanted a specific alignment but if wererat theres a great vile presteige class in players guide to faerun, and remember, if your going to be batman, your going to need that type of equipment, use magic device is a fun skill, perhaps a couple rog levels, for evasion sneak attack and that

[PinkysBrain]

Here's my concept. This fighter will be the always prepared for anything survivalist/tactician/battlefield control.

You need either some casting or UMD. Spells are the gadgets of D&D.

[KoDT69]

But when I say Batman style, I should have clarified more... I meant the non-magical Super Hero Batman, the one with the technological type devices. I am thinking ranks in Knowledge - Engineering - Mechanical and related Craft skills to build a bracer with spring-loaded crossbow that can shoot a mini-harpoon with a cord attached (like being able to lasso somebody or something). I really wanted to avoid casting levels and go 14 fighter X rogue. I can use magic items to replace certain skills or spells. A lot of the cheaper items will be readily available, and I'm not too good to buy potions for a pinch situation.

[Wolfwood2]

But when I say Batman style, I should have clarified more... I meant the non-magical Super Hero Batman, the one with the technological type devices. I am thinking ranks in Knowledge - Engineering - Mechanical and related Craft skills to build a bracer with spring-loaded crossbow that can shoot a mini-harpoon with a cord attached (like being able to lasso somebody or something). I really wanted to avoid casting levels and go 14 fighter X rogue. I can use magic items to replace certain skills or spells. A lot of the cheaper items will be readily available, and I'm not too good to buy potions for a pinch situation.

Well, good luck with that. It's obvious that you have some very specific ideas about how you want to do your character, and we're probably not going to change your mind. Personally, I think \you're really missing out is the physical type skills. Batman climbs, Batman jumps, Batman tumbles, and Batman sneaks.

If you're running around in full plate armor, I don't see how you can be described as self-sufficient or able to handle any situation. You'll be a very good fighter with a lot of fighting tricks, but that's not really the same thing. (And by the way, that Evasion you want isn't going to work in mithril full plate.)

So are you interested in advice on your feat choices?

[MrNexx]

Oh, crap! I have Spellfire, Magic, Yugioh, and Pokemon!

*Runs from the angry mob because of the bad puns*

I'm probably one of the few people who got what Spellfire was doing in that.

[Person_Man]

But when I say Batman style, I should have clarified more... I meant the non-magical Super Hero Batman, the one with the technological type devices. I am thinking ranks in Knowledge - Engineering - Mechanical and related Craft skills to build a bracer with spring-loaded crossbow that can shoot a mini-harpoon with a cord attached (like being able to lasso somebody or something). I really wanted to avoid casting levels and go 14 fighter X rogue. I can use magic items to replace certain skills or spells. A lot of the cheaper items will be readily available, and I'm not too good to buy potions for a pinch situation.

I suggest buying Dungeonscape. It has a boatload of various Traps and trap making/using/disarming feats and options, including a decent 5 level PrC called the Trapsmith. It has some spells, so it may not be what you're looking for. But the Trapsmith can set up traps during combat, and the traps' effectiveness are scaled to his Skill checks. Complete Scoundrel has a non-magical version, though its not as powerful because its traps aren't scaled. You might want to look at them both and work with your DM to get one non-magical version with traps.

[KoDT69]

Yes I am interested in alternate feat choices, hence the post. The whole character is open for redesign. The full plate can be changed to be Leather armor or even just +5 clothes or whatever. For that first night the DM allowed my high STR score to ignore *some* of the heavy armor penalties. I do like the ranger and rogue levels for sure so far. The terraine will mostly be open fields and mountainous regions, so I'm not sure Horizon Walker would be used to its full potential. I may have to cave in and get a few Sorcerer levels for utility spells, but I'd rather not... hmmm, True Strike and Alter Self....

@^^: I sort of recall a CCG called Spellfire and assumed that was the pun...

[PinkysBrain]

Did not say you needed casting. If you don't mind using magic items then I assume you don't mind taking UMD with your rogue levels.

Instead of a plain human you could play a Karsite from ToM. It's a human++, exceptionally hardy against magic and can fundamentally not cast spells, can still use magic items though, making it slightly easier to explain why he tried to learn the magical arts ... batman is smart after all, if he could learn to cast spells he would in the D&D world. It's not the greatest template ever at LA+2, but if you get Daazzix's Vest from the DMG2 you will have SR of 15+HD which is pretty decent.

[KoDT69]

Trying not to use any casting, but a few spells are tempting to go for...

[PinkysBrain]

Any chance you could get leadership out of your DM? A cleric/runecaster could make a lot of nice runes for you (can be used to buff yourself with spells, even personal range spells, and as traps ... not really technoligical, but like it or not magic is D&Ds technology and it still works a little like a gadget).

[lord_khaine]

if you doesnt want magic then both a psycic warrior and a warblade is a viable choice, that will give you lots of options.

[cupkeyk]

Improved Shield Bash is useless without Two-Weapon Fighting. Otherwise you're crippling your attack bonus on all your attacks.

Nope. Nothing in shield bash requires you to have a melee weapon other than your shield. You can use a Heavy shield as a one handed weapon, there fore you can you use it as a two handed weapon. It been used in Captain America builds. You charge, slam and leave a dribbling foe on the ground. Then you bash him some more.