What to do with Prestidigitation?

[danielxcutter]

I've heard that it's a really nice cantrip, since all you need is a bit of creativity. I guess so, and I'd probably buy an Eternal Wand of one if I have enough spare change, but I'd like to hear a few more specific examples. Preferably ones that are somewhat less obvious than "make the Everlasting Rations we bought taste better" and "save money on soap".

[Darrin]

Tome & Blood page 80 is a very good read. I try to make sure that every arcane caster that sits down at my table has a photocopy of that page.

[danielxcutter]

Tome & Blood page 80 is a very good read. I try to make sure that every arcane caster that sits down at my table has a photocopy of that page.

Don't have it, sadly.

[Inevitability]

Don't have it, sadly.

I believe Darrin is referring to this, fortunately also available online.

Notably, it allows one to make objects entirely immune to lava by dampening them and quickly refill caltrop and flour bags by gathering the material.

[Celestia]

Turn all your copper pieces into platinum pieces and buy something really cool. Then flee town because you've only got an hour before they change back.

[Jowgen]

The sketch function is very handy for quickly getting information accross, as you can project an image of literally anything you can imagine.

Explain the layout of an area or building to allies. Show the local sage what creature, symbol or a person of interest looks like without doing a lengthy description. That kinda stuff.

[NOhara24]

Turn all your copper pieces into platinum pieces and buy something really cool. Then flee town because you've only got an hour before they change back.

Changing the physical element of an object falls outside the capabilities of prestidigitation, IMO. Although if the player told me their idea, I'd probably allow it as long as they were prepared to accept any consequences that would befall them as a result of this.

[danielxcutter]

I believe Darrin is referring to this, fortunately also available online.

Woot! Thanks!

Notably, it allows one to make objects entirely immune to lava by dampening them and quickly refill caltrop and flour bags by gathering the material.

Lol. I think most DMs won't be too pleased by that...

Turn all your copper pieces into platinum pieces and buy something really cool. Then flee town because you've only got an hour before they change back.

Lol x 53. Can you do that?

The sketch function is very handy for quickly getting information accross, as you can project an image of literally anything you can imagine.

Explain the layout of an area or building to allies. Show the local sage what creature, symbol or a person of interest looks like without doing a lengthy description. That kinda stuff.

Nice.

[Celestia]

Changing the physical element of an object falls outside the capabilities of prestidigitation, IMO. Although if the player told me their idea, I'd probably allow it as long as they were prepared to accept any consequences that would befall them as a result of this.

Change: You transform one object of Fine size or smaller into another object of roughly the same size. The object can weigh no more than 8 ounces.

The change must be within the same kingdom (animal, vegetable, or mineral). For example, you could change a piece of paper into scrap of linen, and then change that into a rose. Likewise, you could change a coin into a ring. You could not, however, turn a strip of leather into a piece of paper

This line has been intentionally left blank.

[Deophaun]

Turn all your copper pieces into platinum pieces and buy something really cool. Then flee town because you've only got an hour before they change back.

Going with that, a Small dagger is within the weight limit for prestidigitation to turn it adamantine. Universal lock pick at level 1!

I've also used prestidigitation for detection when a DM threw roaming AMFs at us as a terrain hazard: ripped up a sack and turned the scraps neon-orange, and did the same with the ranger's arrows. Let me know which allies and which enemies I could cast on without risk of spell failure.

[Afgncaap5]

To date, I think my favorite use of Prestidigitation was when I needed to get something from a chef. I told him I could give him the best seasoning he'd ever tasted, but that the seasoning had no preservatives and so, after I prepared it, it would only last an hour. He said he'd have to taste it first, so I just spent a few copper on a healthy dose of pepper, cast prestidigitation on it to alter its flavor to something amazing, and traded away.

Also, with a DM who permits somewhat broader interpretations of "minor magical tricks" to include things that fall outside the purview of the things stated, you can basically just make yourself appear awesome. My GMs really seem to like it when my character makes a flock of doves and flashes of light accompany me whenever I open doors to enter rooms, for instance (the doves themselves vanishing into thin air moments later, of course.) I also had a GM allow one character who was a stage magician to use it to make a cloud of playing cards spiral around him in a cloud constantly.

[NOhara24]

-Snip-

Okay, great. You've copy-pasted one of the capabilities of Prestidigitation. That doesn't change the fact that what you're describing is Alchemy, and falls under its own system in 3.5

[Deophaun]

Okay, great. You've copy-pasted one of the capabilities of Prestidigitation. That doesn't change the fact that what you're describing is Alchemy, and falls under its own system in 3.5

A) Not it's not (What's the DC for a platinum piece?)
B) Even if it was, there's nothing in the spell description for prestidigitation that prevents it from performing alchemy. It's prohibited from reproducing spells, not skills.

[Segev]

Actually being able to use it to make even small weapons into weapons with special material properties seems a bit strong for the spell. That doesn't necessarily mean the RAW don't permit it, but we should be very careful to be certain.

Can you make a normal dagger adamantine and thus overcome DR? What about (alchemical) silver? Cold iron? That metal that sucks down souls?

[Celestia]

Okay, great. You've copy-pasted one of the capabilities of Prestidigitation. That doesn't change the fact that what you're describing is Alchemy, and falls under its own system in 3.5

This is the most blatant willful ignorance I've ever seen. I didn't even suggest something weird. That description literally even mentions changing coins into other things

[Honest Tiefling]

It's a spell to get the smell of smoke out of your clothes and clean yourself of any blood paint you might have accidentally gotten onto yourself. If that's not enough reason to get it on its own, I don't know what is.

[NOhara24]

A) Not it's not (What's the DC for a platinum piece?)
B) Even if it was, there's nothing in the spell description for prestidigitation that prevents it from performing alchemy. It's prohibited from reproducing spells, not skills.

A) Yes it is, actually. Common aims for Alchemy were Chrysopoeia; the changing of less valuable metals into more valuable ones. (The traditional example being lead to gold.) Copper to platinum definitely qualifies here. The DC for a platinum piece is a 10 (Typical Item) or 15 (High-Quality Item) dependent on how the DM feels about currency. Seen here:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/craft.htm

B) Correct, and in this instance it would qualify as a transmutation...meaning it would be copying Polymorph Any Object.

[NOhara24]

This is the most blatant willful ignorance I've ever seen. I didn't even suggest something weird. That description literally even mentions changing coins into other things

It mentions turning a coin into a ring...meaning a copper coin would be a copper ring.

[Celestia]

It mentions turning a coin into a ring...meaning a copper coin would be a copper ring.

A. It says nothing about the materials of the coin or ring or specify that they must be the same.

B. It specifically states that changing material is a function of the spell and lists turning paper into linen as an example.

You literally have zero basis for your argument.

[Deophaun]

A) Yes it is, actually. Common aims for Alchemy were Chrysopoeia; the changing of less valuable metals into more valuable ones. (The traditional example being lead to gold.)

Traditional where? What source book? PHB? DMG? MM? Which one?

I do not give a flying fig about Newton in this discussion: RL is not D&D. Give me a page number.

Copper to platinum definitely qualifies here. The DC for a platinum piece is a 10 (Typical Item) or 15 (High-Quality Item) dependent on how the DM feels about currency. Seen here:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/craft.htm

You'll note that alchemy doesn't actually follow that rule. The typical alchemical item is atypical.

B) Correct, and in this instance it would qualify as a transmutation...meaning it would be copying Polymorph Any Object.

Yes, but you did not hinge your argument on that. You hinged your argument on it not being able to imitate a skill.

So, since you admit that I am correct, you admit your argument was completely without merit. Good. glad that's settled.

[CharonsHelper]

I've used it to clear our tracks while we walked so that no one would notice us. (An official rule from Pathfinder module Library of the Lion)

Of course that character (bard) mostly uses it to make sure that he and his clothing are always look pristine.

A. It says nothing about the materials of the coin or ring or specify that they must be the same.

B. It specifically states that changing material is a function of the spell and lists turning paper into linen as an example.

You literally have zero basis for your argument.

That being the case - I choose to turn a copper coin into a +5 ring of protection! It doesn't specifically say that I can't!

[Bullet06320]

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...stidigitations

[NOhara24]

A. It says nothing about the materials of the coin or ring or specify that they must be the same.

B. It specifically states that changing material is a function of the spell and lists turning paper into linen as an example.

You literally have zero basis for your argument.

This has already been pointed out, but by your argument you could turn any coin into any ring...this is a level zero spell. You cannot take a copper coin and turn it into a golden diamond ring with a level zero spell, unless we're giving arcane casters polymorph any object at level 1. Paper to linen is pointed out because they're made from the same thing...copper and platinum are two very different things. Any DM who says "eh, they're both metal, close enough." Should not be behind the DM's screen.

[Celestia]

This has already been pointed out, but by your argument you could turn any coin into any ring...this is a level zero spell. You cannot take a copper coin and turn it into a golden diamond ring with a level zero spell, unless we're giving arcane casters polymorph any object at level 1. Paper to linen is pointed out because they're made from the same thing...copper and platinum are two very different things. Any DM who says "eh, they're both metal, close enough." Should not be behind the DM's screen.

What world are you living in? Paper and linen are not remotely made of the same thing. You are grasping at straws here. And then claiming that it's the same thing as corn.

And you can turn any coin into any ring, as long as they're both in the same "kingdom" as defined as plant, animal, or mineral. That is exactly what the spell says it does.

[Gildedragon]

You can use it to splice several lengths of rope together
Re: the coin to dagger, if the metal must stay the same: shuriken into dagger, a lockpick into a key (or vice-versa), a dagger into a bracelet (so as to sneak it into the no-weapons-allowed place)

[Honest Tiefling]

What world are you living in? Paper and linen are not remotely made of the same thing. You are grasping at straws here. And then claiming that it's the same thing as corn.

I think he means that both are made of plant fiber, which while different do have some similarities. I'd also say both kinda fall into the plant kingdom because of that.

[Inevitability]

Paper and linen are not remotely made of the same thing. You are grasping at straws here. And then claiming that it's the same thing as corn.

Discussion notwithstanding, I'd like to sig this.

I think he means that both are made of plant fiber, which while different do have some similarities. I'd also say both kinda fall into the plant kingdom because of that.

This goes for copper and platinum as well, though. Both are metals, they have a similar atomic structure, and they're both part of the mineral kingdom.

[Celestia]

Discussion notwithstanding, I'd like to sig this.



This goes for copper and platinum as well, though. Both are metals, they have a similar atomic structure, and they're both part of the mineral kingdom.

Yay! My first sigged quote! :3

[Segev]

Correct, and in this instance it would qualify as a transmutation...meaning it would be copying Polymorph Any Object.

Eh, by that logic, you've obviated the clause he quoted as actually being able to do anything at all, since PAO can be used to transmute anything to anything, and thus all changes of one object to another (despite being called out explicitly as doable by prestidigitation) are disallowed for duplicating PAO.

[Deophaun]

Eh, by that logic, you've obviated the clause he quoted as actually being able to do anything at all, since PAO can be used to transmute anything to anything, and thus all changes of one object to another (despite being called out explicitly as doable by prestidigitation) are disallowed for duplicating PAO.

Tome and Blood is 3.0, so it's reasonable to drop the feature in the update to 3.5. Although I don't know what prestidigitation's actual text was in 3.0.

But, that's an entirely different argument and one that is a complete judgement call.