prestige class: Alienist

[Ivellios]

Alright, so I've been playing as a sorcerer for a while now, and I want to take a prestige class. So, I look through Tome and Blood. After reading up on everything, I decide I really, really want to become an Alienist. The concept just sounds really cool to me. So, what I would like to know is if since Tome and Blood is a 3.0 book, what changes have been made to the class in 3.5? Or are there no changes, which would be cool...but unlikely.

Anyway, what do I need to know?

[hewhosaysfish]

A 3.5 version of the Alienist appears in Complete Arcane. I don't remember many of the details but I do recall you get to summon Pseudonatural creatures instead of Celestial/Fiendish ones, you get a Pseudonatural familiar, you get an new eye/mouth/tentacle on you somewhere, your Wis is fooled around with to represent the descent into madness and at some point you stop aging (but when you normally die of old age the Cthulu-wannabes come and drag you away instead).

[Dihan]

It's in Complete Arcane.

I'm not sure what was changed, I don't have Tome and Blood to compare with.

[Ivellios]

A 3.5 version of the Alienist appears in Complete Arcane. I don't remember many of the details but I do recall you get to summon Pseudonatural creatures instead of Celestial/Fiendish ones, you get a Pseudonatural familiar, you get an new eye/mouth/tentacle on you somewhere, your Wis is fooled around with to represent the descent into madness and at some point you stop aging (but when you normally die of old age the Cthulu-wannabes come and drag you away instead).

Yes, let's see...
lvl.1:you get to summon pseudonatural creatures
lvl.2:+1 bonus on all saving throws, -2 to wisdom (permenent, but made up since you can age indefinatly, gaining wisdom)
lvl.9:immortality (rather, no aging. you live forever unless you get killed)
lvl.10:Transendence. (added bonus: extra eye, kidney, heart, arm, tenticle, lump, whatever you can think of)

At lvl 9 when you stop aging, I really do think you stop aging and time doesn't affect you anymore. However, I think it means that if you're killed you just can't be raised.

Again, that's just 3.0 tome and blood. Anybody else have info on the new 3.5 version? even textfiles or links will help me out.

[MeklorIlavator]

If that's all that you get from the class, the 3.5 version is sufficiently different. You might want to go to a Borders/Barnes and noble with the tome of Blood and browse through the complete arcane to make sure. The alienist is on page 21-23, FYI.

[Ivellios]

thanks, I'll be sure to do that. but does anyone happen to know some specific details? not that I won't go look it up myself as soon as I get the chance, but I just want to make sure there aren't any new extreme downsides that will make me not want to take the class...

One of the best things about this class in Tome and Blood is that you continue to get the "+1 level of existing class" thing for every one of the ten levels. That still happens, right?

[Ikkitosen]

I believe it's a full casting PrC, yes. Wierd though!

[MeklorIlavator]

Yeah, Full caster progression. You seem to get everything from the original, plus some extra stuff.

[Everyman]

Minus immortality, though. 3.5 Alienists are not "immortal". That said, they are a lot of fun to play and are well-designed.

[Ivellios]

It is weird, isn't it?
"With knowledge and determination, they pierce the barrier at the edge of time itself. In the Far Realm, outside of time, Herculean minds drift, absorbed in contemplations of madness. Unspeakable beings whisper terrifying secrets to those who dare communication. These secrets were not meant for mortals, but the alienist plunges into abysses of chaos and entropy that would blast a weaker mind.
Weird in a good way though.

Anyway, it seems like the general opinion is that the class is still worth taking.
if it does lose the immortality thing, then oh well, I'm a young elf anyway.

[Swooper]

I've got both CArc and T&B at home. I can check for you when I get home in about 2 hours, if you like?

[MeklorIlavator]

Anyway, it seems like the general opinion is that the class is still worth taking.
if it does lose the immortality thing, then oh well, I'm a young elf anyway.

It does gain timeless body, same as the druid.

[Nahal]

It does gain timeless body, same as the druid.

Indeed, but instead of just keeling over at random Cthulhu comes and drags you screaming into the seething madness of the realms beyond space and time.

[Fax Celestis]

Indeed, but instead of just keeling over at random Cthulhu comes and drags you screaming into the seething madness of the realms beyond space and time.

"Random Cthulhu"? There are no random cthulhus, only illithids with the winged template.

[The_Snark]

Indeed, but instead of just keeling over at random, Cthulhu comes and drags you screaming into the seething madness of the realms beyond space and time.

Ah, commas.

They also gain Toughness a couple times as a bonus feat, taking progressively larger penalties to checks like Diplomacy and Handle Animal when interacting with non-Far Realms creatures.

A fun, fun class, the Alienist.

[Falrin]

It's not a powerfull as PrC tend to get sometime, but why shouldn't you take it?

You get full Casting
Your Familiar continues & improves further.
Pseudonatural is a nice template (true strike 1/ day & Creatures with power attack work nice)
You gain bonusses on saves, extra hp, 2 metamagic Feats, an extra highest LvL Summon and you become an outsider (which is good)

In return you lose some diplomatic skills (might hurt a sorceror), become weird, lose wis and be unable to cast elementals (which sucks).

All in All a fair trade for a summoner.

Also I like to note: This is what I expect from PrC's gain some, lose some. Not this Archmage, Incantrix, IoTSV don't lose and get huge return things that make PrC-ing a no-brainer.


To conclude: Looks balanced & fun to play. Go for it.

[SilverClawShift]

read it "instead of just keeling over at random, Cthulhu comes"

[JackMage666]

Wow, I never noticed that last line of Immortal Body for the Alienist..

[The_Snark]

Not many classes give out real immortality. The eldritch disciple from Complete Mage does, as do some transformational classes like the Green Star Adept and dread necromancer.

Also I like to note: This is what I expect from PrC's gain some, lose some. Not this Archmage, Incantrix, IoTSV don't lose and get huge return things that make PrC-ing a no-brainer.

Agreed. It has cool abilities, but nothing incredibly powerful, and there are costs.

[Aquillion]

Also I like to note: This is what I expect from PrC's gain some, lose some. Not this Archmage, Incantrix, IoTSV don't lose and get huge return things that make PrC-ing a no-brainer.

To be fair...

While the IoTSV is super-powerful once you get into it, the requirements suck. I mean, seriously, they're likely to eat up a significant portion of your skills and feats up until you get in. I wouldn't say it balances out, no, (what else is a primary spellcaster going to do with those skill points, anyway?) but it isn't as 'free' as it looks at first.

Archmages don't waste quite as much (although 15 levels in Knowledge (Arcana) isn't so hot, and the 15 spellcraft + skill focus: spellcraft are only useful if your campaign is going epic), but they have to trade in spell slots for the actual abilities. Again, a better-than-fair trade, but the return isn't free.

[Arbitrarity]

To be fair...

While the IoTSV is super-powerful once you get into it, the requirements suck. I mean, seriously, they're likely to eat up a significant portion of your skills and feats up until you get in. I wouldn't say it balances out, no, (what else is a primary spellcaster going to do with those skill points, anyway?) but it isn't as 'free' as it looks at first.

Archmages don't waste quite as much (although 15 levels in Knowledge (Arcana) isn't so hot, and the 15 spellcraft + skill focus: spellcraft are only useful if your campaign is going epic), but they have to trade in spell slots for the actual abilities. Again, a better-than-fair trade, but the return isn't free.

Your wizard has a metric boatload of skills anyway, and better be putting them in concentration, spellcraft, and knowledges. It's a job. What costs for me in those PrC's is the feats. Skill focus (spellcraft)? Ugh. Same with Spell Foci, etc.

Incantatrix wastes one (1) feat. Iron will. That's it. The rest is spellcasting and a metamagic feat, IIRC.

[MeklorIlavator]

To be fair...

While the IoTSV is super-powerful once you get into it, the requirements suck. I mean, seriously, they're likely to eat up a significant portion of your skills and feats up until you get in. I wouldn't say it balances out, no, (what else is a primary spellcaster going to do with those skill points, anyway?) but it isn't as 'free' as it looks at first.

Which is why Master Specialist(Abjuration) awesome. Spend one feat(Spell Focus), and get the other 2 requirements. As for skills, the only spellcasting PrC's that have troublesome skill requirements are the unseen seer, the geometer, and the Arcane trickster, because they have cross-class skills involved. Wizards are Int based, so its not uncommon to have over 7 skill points a level(2+5 for a 20 in Int), and its not like wizards have a great skill list.

[ZeroNumerous]

Same with Spell Foci

Spell Focus(Enchantment), (Necromancy), or (Illusion) do very well to meet Archmage. Further, you lose some high-end spell slots to gain High Arcana. Which is a serious trade off for a wizard.