How to reduce the Special Snowflake-ity of a new player?

[Douche]

Say you're a DM and someone is asking to join your game... This is through the internet so it's not like it's your friend that you're inviting to join your campaign.

Then you get to asking them what sort of character they want to be and how they'll join the group, and they start putting up red flags for being a special snowflake.

Perhaps, but not limited to:

- being the "chosen one" of their clan, who is destined to become great and avert a great crisis (and eventually become a general in their gods army)

- also being the bearer of the Greatest Weapon of All Time ^tm

- wanting to play a special race that no one else gets to play

- sounding like they want the campaign to revolve around their life story instead of being, ya know, what the campaign is supposed to be about.

How do you tell this person to cool down?

[Magic Myrmidon]

Talk with 'em. Explain the specific problems you have with the concept, and see if he's open to working with you on tweaking/overhauling the concept.

At worst, he chews you out for not liking his idea, and you don't have a player you were iffy on. At best, he understands your concerns, and turns out to be a good player for the group.

[Anymage]

First and foremost, what's the theme of the campaign? Something gritty will probably cause a taste mismatch. Something epic will have more room.

Second, depending on his tastes, fated heroes are a popular concept. Explain to him that the nature of RPGs means that you don't get to have one single protagonist. If you can give him something awesome (a prophecy, being world class in a specific skill, etc) while making sure the other characters have a similar claim to awesomeness, that might make everybody happy. Being powerful and awesome (if a little juvenile about it) does not necessarily mean needing to be the primary protagonist.

[Nifft]

Try to focus the player on a special aspiration rather than a special inherent quality.

Like: "Yeah, your clan has a legend of the chosen one, and you're sure that it's you, but you have to prove it. What do you intend to accomplish that will prove to them that your claim is legitimate?"

Or: "Of course your ancestral blade will become the greatest weapon of all time. But to do that, the legend says you'll need to temper the blade with the heart's blood of ten ancient dragons. Luckily, your grandfather slew an ancient black dragon, and his mother slew an ancient silver, so you're ahead of the game, but you've still got eight to go..."

Basically, have them focus on how awesome they will become, instead of how awesome they were before the game even starts.

[Anonymouswizard]

I'd argue here you don't have to remove the snowfakeness with the specialness. For most of them at least.

-So you're the chosen one of your clan? Sure, I'll build in an arc about you bringing greatness to your clan at some point. But to the rest of the world you're just a normal person until you've proven yourself.
-Being the bearer of the [Weapon of X] is certainly possible. One of my favourites is that because the weapon is old it's not up to par, and so you'll have to infuse it with magic to return it to it's status. That's why you're the bearer.
-Special snowflake race? Well there's nothing wrong with playing a rare race, just as long as they don't focus on the specialness and are okay with NPCs being unnerved.
-Wants the campaign to revolve around their life story, either they stop being so focused on main charactering (this is an ensemble piece) or they can get out.

[Vitruviansquid]

How do you tell this person to cool down?

You don't.

Special Snowflake characters are cool to new players because they haven't seen Special Snowflakes done to death and gotten jaded like the rest of us. You telling the new player that Special Snowflakes aren't cool isn't going to help because from his point of view, it is we who are distorted and wrong.

Eventually, this new player will realize on his own that Special Snowflake characters are dumb, once he realizes that Special Snowflakes are all over the place.

[Mr Beer]

Run GURPS so he has to pay points for specialness.

Handsome (+2/+4) [12], Reputation: This Guy is Awesome! (+4) (Everyone, All the Time) [20], Charisma +3 [15], Schtick: Clothes Flutter Without A Breeze [1] and Social Status: Clan Leader +2 (Most People) [7]. That's 55 points right there.

Now he's the party face because he gets a massive Reaction bonus (at least +9, up to +13) and meanwhile that point cost is equivalent to Combat Reflexes and +4 ST for the party fighter and +2 Magery, +1 IQ and 10 spells for the party mage.

He will never be as good in combat as the other players but NPCs will love this guy, and go out of their way to show it. He gets discounts on all financial transactions, gets invited to all the best parties, the other characters are assumed to be his retinue and he gets roughly all of the girls (or boys, whichever).

[Jay R]

- being the "chosen one" of their clan, who is destined to become great and avert a great crisis (and eventually become a general in their gods army)

The key word is "eventually".

"You're first level. If you're the 'chosen one', what you've been chosen to do is clean out the latrine."

- also being the bearer of the Greatest Weapon of All Time ^tm

"You have 5d10 gp. Buy whatever you can with it."

- wanting to play a special race that no one else gets to play?

"Here is a list of the available races at this time and place. Whichever one you choose, you're still first level."

- sounding like they want the campaign to revolve around their life story instead of being, ya know, what the campaign is supposed to be about.

"That's a great goal, if you can make it happen. The campaign's currently revolving around the conquests of the 17th level wizard with a 10,000 zombie & wight army. If you can manage to displace him, then that's great roleplaying. I'm looking forward to seeing how you do it."

How do you tell this person to cool down?

"That's a great goal to have. Meanwhile, your commanding officer just handed you a shovel."

[Jerrykhor]

Its annoying sure, but its not as bad as the Edgy McEdgelord type.

You can't get a snowflake to cool down, they are already at below freezing temperatures! Use fire instead, that always works

[BWR]

SSness is contextual. There are games where stuff like the OP listed is your average PC rather than someone special. What is important is to clearly convey the concept, theme, and limits of the game and explain why certain character concepts do or do not work in it. I suspect a lot of the tendency to SS is from media. You are used to following the exploits of a single character who is special in some way and have understood that the game allows you a lot of freedom to do whatever you wish.

From personal experience, every new player I've played with (ignoring the trolls) has made pretty average guys/gals that fit right in by virtue of not having much personality or concept. The only time it was a problem was with a couple under 20s who had been playing for a couple of years and realized they could (theoretically) play anything they wanted to, and wanted to fulfill their power fantasies. Be fair, who doesn't at some point?

[Eldan]

Depends a bit on the other player's maturity level, but, let them get it out of their system?

By that I mean, don't enable them, but indulge them. Let them build a special raced awesome character (he won't be too strong, if he's a first time character builder, in most systems). Let them want to be the chosen one. Maybe throw them some bones even from time to time. Let them find an artefact of their clan a few levels up, perhaps. Bring them to an ancient battlefield where a spirit of their ancestor still lingers and talks to them about their destiny.

All of that doesn't really distract all that much from a campaign.

[Socksy]

We had a player once who insisted on playing a terrible homebrew they wrote themselves (they were called Skinnies and they were rake-thin, 9ft tall furries universally loved by all other species) and then refused to get on the boat because they were scared of water for the campaign set around a series of islands. Then they screamed loudly (we were not level 1, they were supposedly a relatively experienced adventurer) upon seeing a zombie, AFTER being told they were attracted to noise, bringing the entire infestation towards us.

Their spelling and grammar was terrible, and they insisted out of character that they were in a consensual and loving relationship with their cat. Because their cat was smart as a person. No they weren't joking, and yes they were a fully grown adult. They also screamed at us whenever we got their gender wrong, which changed from day to day and they didn't tell us what it was that particular day.

Needless to say that campaign didn't last long.

The moral of this story is: If someone's character is a snowflake, that person might be trying to snowflake themselves IRL as well. I doubt most snowflake characters have players like that, but be warned.

[Darth Ultron]

I'd go with....you don't.

Just give the special snowflake player some cool thin mints and a Klondike bar and let them eat it up.


None a player says ''I want to break the rules'', remember that includes the DM too. (Muhhahahaha)

The ''chosen one'' destiny is easy....the DM says ''you are the chosen one'', and the game rolls on.

The weapon...oh, this is where the fun starts. The ''greatest weapon'' also has ''the greatest curse'' and the ''greatest draw backs'' . That is how great things work. And even ''the best'' of the ''great weapons'' can only be used for ''great things''. The ''weapon'' wants to stop a horde of undead, not like ''rob a bank so the character can gets richz'' or anything else dumb.

Special race...eh, whatever. Special races also have special drawbacks too...hehe.

Really it's not so ''hard'' to make the ''story'' revolve around ''all'' the characters.

[Merellis]

I'd go with....you don't.

Just give the special snowflake player some cool thin mints and a Klondike bar and let them eat it up.


None a player says ''I want to break the rules'', remember that includes the DM too. (Muhhahahaha)

The ''chosen one'' destiny is easy....the DM says ''you are the chosen one'', and the game rolls on.

The weapon...oh, this is where the fun starts. The ''greatest weapon'' also has ''the greatest curse'' and the ''greatest draw backs'' . That is how great things work. And even ''the best'' of the ''great weapons'' can only be used for ''great things''. The ''weapon'' wants to stop a horde of undead, not like ''rob a bank so the character can gets richz'' or anything else dumb.

Special race...eh, whatever. Special races also have special drawbacks too...hehe.

Really it's not so ''hard'' to make the ''story'' revolve around ''all'' the characters.

Can you stop mugging the english language of all it's quotation marks? WE ONLY HAVE SO MANY IN EXISTENCE.


But yeah, roll with it, have fun with it, make this character earn that ancestral weapon, earn that destiny, deal with the repercussions of being a giant cube of slime that talks with disembodied heads as they slowly rot. Or whatever weird race they were going for, I dunno? I mean hell, you have a super simple plot hook to take advantage of now.

[Yuki Akuma]

The PCs are meant to be special. He's just giving you some cool plot hooks to use. I really don't see a problem here.

[Jormengand]

The PCs are meant to be special. He's just giving you some cool plot hooks to use. I really don't see a problem here.

Yeah, if you don't want special snowflakes, you probably don't want to be playing D&D.

[Keltest]

Yeah, if you don't want special snowflakes, you probably don't want to be playing D&D.

Theres a difference between the "I'm a PC" effect and saying "my character should have solved this plot, like, last week, so lets move on to how I want the story to be for my character." which sounds more like what is going on.

[Jormengand]

Theres a difference between the "I'm a PC" effect and saying "my character should have solved this plot, like, last week, so lets move on to how I want the story to be for my character." which sounds more like what is going on.

PCs should be champion of X, wielder of the sacred X, a group of multiple different diverse races and the campaign should at least partially revolve around the actual characters as well as "This is the bad thing. You're the poor schmucks who got roped into handling it."

[Yuki Akuma]

Theres a difference between the "I'm a PC" effect and saying "my character should have solved this plot, like, last week, so lets move on to how I want the story to be for my character." which sounds more like what is going on.

That's a problem with a player wanting to hog the spotlight. "PCs are meant to be special" means that all of the PCs are meant to be special, not just your dude.

[Ninja-Radish]

Huh. I always find it amusing when people have backstories like "My character is the greatest swordsman (or swordswoman) in the world" when they're starting out at 1st level and are guaranteed to suck.

Personally, I never have stuff like that in my backstory because I know low level characters are ass. My backstory would be more like "My character isn't the worst swordsman in the world. I mean he's bad, but there are worse ones than him out there..."

[Jay R]

- also being the bearer of the Greatest Weapon of All Time ^tm

No problem. Here are the rules for the Feat "Ancestral Relic". If you want to take that feat, you can, and the weapon will develop as described in the rules.

The crucial realization is this: Backstory doesn't give power. It gives ideas and opportunities to develop power. Developing your power is the actual game.

Evey bit of power comes through game mechanics.

You will need to repeat this many times, but never deviate from it. Over and over again, "Backstory doesn't give power. Every bit of power comes through game mechanics."

[CharonsHelper]

Lol - this thread reminds me of my PFS bard, the Greatest of All Pathfinders. He has Performance: Oratory, and inspires others with tales of the Greatest of All Pathfinders.

He's the standard bard jack-of-all-trades, so he helps with everything and then claims the credit afterwards, incorporating 'his exploits' into his next performance. "You remember, you were there doing... something."

I didn't even design him that way, but he ended up being a huge satire of special snowflake characters - except entirely in-character. (he's the one who thinks he's a special snowflake - I don't)

Huh. I always find it amusing when people have backstories like "My character is the greatest swordsman (or swordswoman) in the world" when they're starting out at 1st level and are guaranteed to suck.

Lol - my above bard ended up playing 'up' (level 4-5 sessions) a couple of times at level 1 and ended up ducking and hiding while proclaiming how awesome he was to inspire the actual combatants. And then afterwards he talked about how he 'led the party to victory'.

[Quertus]

Try to focus the player on a special aspiration rather than a special inherent quality.

Like: "Yeah, your clan has a legend of the chosen one, and you're sure that it's you, but you have to prove it. What do you intend to accomplish that will prove to them that your claim is legitimate?"

Or: "Of course your ancestral blade will become the greatest weapon of all time. But to do that, the legend says you'll need to temper the blade with the heart's blood of ten ancient dragons. Luckily, your grandfather slew an ancient black dragon, and his mother slew an ancient silver, so you're ahead of the game, but you've still got eight to go..."

Basically, have them focus on how awesome they will become, instead of how awesome they were before the game even starts.

The PCs are meant to be special. He's just giving you some cool plot hooks to use. I really don't see a problem here.

PCs should be champion of X, wielder of the sacred X, a group of multiple different diverse races and the campaign should at least partially revolve around the actual characters as well as "This is the bad thing. You're the poor schmucks who got roped into handling it."

Agreed. Pc's should be special. And I've played in too many games that didn't last long for me to care about a "being special later" that may never come.

But, even so, the special they are now should definitely build to the special they will become.

Explain to the player the level of "special now" that is appropriate to the party, and work with them to make the path to "special later" workable and obvious.

EDIT: or, I agree with what Nifft said, so long as you don't lose focus on what he is now being cool, too.

Run GURPS so he has to pay points for specialness.

Handsome (+2/+4) [12], Reputation: This Guy is Awesome! (+4) (Everyone, All the Time) [20], Charisma +3 [15], Schtick: Clothes Flutter Without A Breeze [1] and Social Status: Clan Leader +2 (Most People) [7]. That's 55 points right there.

Now he's the party face because he gets a massive Reaction bonus (at least +9, up to +13) and meanwhile that point cost is equivalent to Combat Reflexes and +4 ST for the party fighter and +2 Magery, +1 IQ and 10 spells for the party mage.

He will never be as good in combat as the other players but NPCs will love this guy, and go out of their way to show it. He gets discounts on all financial transactions, gets invited to all the best parties, the other characters are assumed to be his retinue and he gets roughly all of the girls (or boys, whichever).

This is important. Ask him what he wants out of trying to be a special snowflake. Then present him a non-SS option to achieve that, and see if he bites.

Huh. I always find it amusing when people have backstories like "My character is the greatest swordsman (or swordswoman) in the world" when they're starting out at 1st level and are guaranteed to suck.

Personally, I never have stuff like that in my backstory because I know low level characters are ass. My backstory would be more like "My character isn't the worst swordsman in the world. I mean he's bad, but there are worse ones than him out there..."

Random story time!

Large (10+) 2e D&D group, making characters. DM notices that some people are done, while he's helping others to finish, he suggests those who are done can go ahead and roleplay meeting in the bar.

Well, turns out, two of the (first level, of course) characters claim to be the best archer in the land! So, of course, they step outside to test their claims, William Tell style.

The first archer rolls really well, and shoots the arrow off the second character's head.

The second character... Botches, and shoots the first character dead.

So, when the DM finishes helping the stragglers, he goes around the table, asking name, AC, etc. He's quite surprised to get a "not done yet" response from one of the first people finished, who has to explain this story.

Having never played Traveller, that, of course, set out record for character death, at T-15 minutes.

-----

Later, same group of players, but a different adventure, I brought in Gwendar, a (higher level) character who claimed to be the best archer in his land (like most of my characters, he was "not from around here").

Blah, blah, blah, stuff happens, and he comes into possession of a magic arrow, rumoured to be the only way to defeat one of our Quest Monsters.

Time passes, and, while attempting to collect a Quest Item, we come across a monster who seems immune to all of our attacks. Gwendar considers what little he knows about the Quest Monster, and decides that this creature matches his sketchy information. Notching his unique arrow, he draws back his bow, and pauses - what if he misses?

He carefully surveys the battlefield, and reaches his decision. A dedicated archer, Gwendar surprises everyone as he rushes through an opening to the front lines. Gripping the Quest Arrow, he stabs it into the beast, who bellows and dies.

And that is why Gwendar is the best archer in the land.

[RazorChain]

Say you're a DM and someone is asking to join your game... This is through the internet so it's not like it's your friend that you're inviting to join your campaign.

Then you get to asking them what sort of character they want to be and how they'll join the group, and they start putting up red flags for being a special snowflake.

Perhaps, but not limited to:

- being the "chosen one" of their clan, who is destined to become great and avert a great crisis (and eventually become a general in their gods army)

- also being the bearer of the Greatest Weapon of All Time ^tm

- wanting to play a special race that no one else gets to play

- sounding like they want the campaign to revolve around their life story instead of being, ya know, what the campaign is supposed to be about.

How do you tell this person to cool down?

This is simple. Yes he is the chosen of his clan, he is destinied to great things if he doesnt die trying.

The chosen one has to retrieve the great ancestral weapon to prove he's the chosen one.

Destinied to avert a great crisis

When he dies he becomes a general in his gods army.

This pretty much sounds like a typical D&D game to me

[FreddyNoNose]

Say you're a DM and someone is asking to join your game... This is through the internet so it's not like it's your friend that you're inviting to join your campaign.

Then you get to asking them what sort of character they want to be and how they'll join the group, and they start putting up red flags for being a special snowflake.

Perhaps, but not limited to:

- being the "chosen one" of their clan, who is destined to become great and avert a great crisis (and eventually become a general in their gods army)

Yes, the clan had a going away surprise party for him. Even people he thought hated him all his life were very supportive of him going off into the world as the "chosen one".

- also being the bearer of the Greatest Weapon of All Time ^tm

The clan "worked hard" to give him this weapon. You know it is the greatest because it has the words "The Greatest Weapon of All Time" on the blade.

- wanting to play a special race that no one else gets to play

Some people want that. Perhaps no one else wants to play it. Give him a list of really bad choices that he can take as a challenge to make worthwhile!

- sounding like they want the campaign to revolve around their life story instead of being, ya know, what the campaign is supposed to be about.

How do you tell this person to cool down?

the other option is he has a special case version of a Ring of Delusion on that requires a wish to remove. He believes all those things.

[DKing9114]

From what you've said, this could go either way. I would suggest approaching the player and reviewing the parts of their character concept that you have issues with. Make sure he's aware of your expectations regarding the campaign, as well as the play-style of the group. If he wants to be the destined chosen one of his clan, have him describe exactly what that means-who is his clan, what is their big prophecy, how has it affected him, how will he react when he's away from his clan and nobody cares who he is, how certain is he that this prophecy actually refers to him. Bearing the "Ultimate Weapon of Awesomeness Forever" wouldn't be viable for a level 1 character, but there are ways you could incorporate the concept into the campaign-he carries an inert magic longsword for most of the campaign, before being able to awaken it at some appropriate point. Or he starts the campaign with a sentient magic weapon he can't get rid of-and it won't shut up.

Basically, just approach him with your concerns, and judge how bad of a special snowflake he wants to be.

[Jay R]

"That sounds like a great character. It's a shame that he doesn't fit my game, but I hope you can find a game where you can use him."

[jayem]

From what you've said, this could go either way.

Yes it's consistent with someone new, anxious to give the most to the character, and not realising you don't need to. [NB Roy comes close enough to being a bit like the character you describe]
In which case pointing out the interactive nature of the game, that they (character) need to prove themselves and are still at the start, and their destiny is still unwritten might resolve half the points.

It could be someone with a favourite L50 character they've built up, that they want to import without thinking of the need to be level zero, or that you've missed all the effort they put into developing him.
Which ironically might be more of a difficulty.

It could be someone wanting to control the game.
In which case you've lost.

[Psyren]

Try to focus the player on a special aspiration rather than a special inherent quality.

Like: "Yeah, your clan has a legend of the chosen one, and you're sure that it's you, but you have to prove it. What do you intend to accomplish that will prove to them that your claim is legitimate?"

Or: "Of course your ancestral blade will become the greatest weapon of all time. But to do that, the legend says you'll need to temper the blade with the heart's blood of ten ancient dragons. Luckily, your grandfather slew an ancient black dragon, and his mother slew an ancient silver, so you're ahead of the game, but you've still got eight to go..."

Basically, have them focus on how awesome they will become, instead of how awesome they were before the game even starts.

^ Good stuff here. Redirect all that enthusiasm rather than stifling it.

You can even give him that ancestral sword he wants to start the game with. Unlocking its power requires some upgrades though - which coincidentally, cost exactly as much as the weapons you would have given his character if not slightly more. Plus a sidequest or two.

[MrNobody]

Destiny, destiny, destiny... destiny does not equals "easy", right?

Look at myths: how many heroes were destined to greatness and still had to face very hard times.
Take Hercules, for example: godblooded, destined himself to godhood but still he killed unwillingly his own wife and sons, he had to serve his cousin, face the worst monsters and even die before facing his destiny.

He want to be a clan leader: what if the clan is shattered among nations?
He wants the weapon: what if he has to find or even forge it.

And what if one or more deities don't want him to fulfill his destiny?

He may be destined to greatness, but others may be destined to stop him too.