Phantom Steed

[TheDon]

I was reading logic ninja's guide to batman and the Phantom steed leaves me puzzled.

-Phantom Steed: Utility. At first it seems meh, but then you realize that the horse can eventually fly (hours-duration Fly spell, effectively), and has a movement speed of 20 ft *per caster level*. At level 5, that's 100'. Take Ride ranks, and you can have the phantom horse move in, cast a spell, and have it move back. It caps at 240', which is pretty damn fast.

How does the ranks in ride allow you to make 2 moves in the same round? perhaps it's all written in the PHB but I do not have access to one right now.


Bold is my own addition.

[Arbitrarity]

You aren't moving, the horse is. I'm not sure why you'd need ride, actually. Concentration, yes. Horse moves, you cast spell, finish, horse turns around, moves back. It's mentioned in concentration as being DC 10+spell level.

[Nevar]

I would say you would need to make a ride check to be able to controle the mount as you are casting a spell. Which would make ride a needed skill. Another question is would a ride check constitute as a move action?

[tainsouvra]

I'm not sure why you'd need ride, actually.

Ride lets you guide the horse without using your hands (DC5) and avoid being knocked from the saddle any time you take damage (DC5), which both seem pretty important. There are fancier things you can do that require higher DC's, but I think a +4 modifier after your dex bonus is a pretty good minimum investment to practically never fail those checks.

I would say you would need to make a ride check to be able to controle the mount as you are casting a spell.

The rules don't require that, be sure you tell your players that you are making riding more difficult than RAW.

Another question is would a ride check constitute as a move action?

Most Ride checks are free actions or non-actions, per the skill's description.

[Arbitrarity]

Yes, because something directly covered in concentration should need a ride check. And most definately, having your horse move should as well. Which is why ride describes none of that, you can make full attacks with arrows while on a galloping horse, and concentration directly covers casting while riding.

Ok, the +4 is required, as you really shouldn't fail those. Personally, being a tertiary stat, my wizards generally have decent dex, and might drop a rank or two for that.

[Wolfwood2]

How does the ranks in ride allow you to make 2 moves in the same round? perhaps it's all written in the PHB but I do not have access to one right now.

A mounted character can take a standard action and move action regardless of his mount's movement. So your mount might double-move, and you could simultaneously pull out a potion and drink it or pull out a scroll and cast it... or simply cast a spell and use your move action to shout "woo-hoo!".

This is all in the PHB on mounted combat. It specifically notes that you can take your standard action at any time before, after, or between the mount's two move actions.

[TheDon]

use your move action to shout "woo-hoo!"

I thought speaking was a free action :P

Jokes asside thank you all for the quick answers, it realy helped.

[Jack_Simth]

Hmm... does the Control Mount in Battle check apply? The Phantom Steed spell does not say if the horse is treated as being trained for Combat Riding or not....

Control Mount in Battle: As a move action, you can attempt to control a light horse, pony, heavy horse, or other mount not trained for combat riding while in battle. If you fail the Ride check, you can do nothing else in that round. You do not need to roll for warhorses or warponies.

[Arbitrarity]

I'm not sure that makes sense to apply, seeing as the steed isn't literally a horse, it's a "horse-like creature", which implies... eh.

Applying that makes the spell more of a hindrance than a help, and thereby essentially worthless.

[tainsouvra]

Hmm... does the Control Mount in Battle check apply? The Phantom Steed spell does not say if the horse is treated as being trained for Combat Riding or not....

The Phantom Steed is a quasireal creation of the caster, and is unlikely to be "frightened by combat" per the Mounted Combat rules. You are correct in that it doesn't explicitly state that the check need not be made, however there is also no mention in its entry about it being capable of fear at all.

[Jack_Simth]

I'm not sure that makes sense to apply, seeing as the steed isn't literally a horse, it's a "horse-like creature", which implies... eh.

Nothing, as the check description includes "or other mount not trained for combat" - which is what you were clearly getting to.

Applying that makes the spell more of a hindrance than a help, and thereby essentially worthless.

It makes it a hindrance in battle until you've reached the point where you can reliably make the DC 20 Ride check. Even before then, though, Dismounting is just a move-action (or a DC 20 Ride Check - and the only penalty for failing the check is taking the move action) away.

But considering that for sheer speed, as soon as you get Phantom Steed (caster level 5, 100 foot speed walking), the spell beats out Overland Flight (40 foot speed, but tireless Hustling, so 80 feet per round, personal only) for Overland travel, and is two full spell levels lower, and can be applied to friends as well as yourself, that might just not be an issue.

The Phantom Steed is a quasireal creation of the caster, and is unlikely to be "frightened by combat" per the Mounted Combat rules. You are correct in that it doesn't explicitly state that the check need not be made, however there is also no mention in its entry about it being capable of fear at all.

True. Nor is there any mention in it's entry that it is incapable of fear.

About the only clues we have are that it is a "horse-like" creature.

Is that "horse" or "warhorse"? The two have different (but related) entries in the Monster Manual...

[Ashlan]

The skill is likely required for "Guide with Knees" (DC 5) as you may need 2 hands free to cast the spell. (1 to hold the material component and 1 to perform the somatic component)

Ash