Starting Core game for potential new players

[Seffbasilisk]

I've been planning on starting a campaign for my fiancée and some mutual friends to introduce them to the game. I've already decided to go Core-Only to keep the rules from swamping them, and am introducing the rules to one of the players earlier on then the rest so that she'll be able to explain as well as me.

I'm probably going to throw them some under CR encounters, boost thier confidence a bit, maybe some tough RP issues, and probably a tougher BBEG focusing more on RP then on mechanical toughness.

Questions for the lot of you. What level do you think is the best level to start the group out at? I'm thinking level 5, but not set on it.

Also, what encounters would you suggest throwing at them? I'm thinking some peasant mobs, zombies, skeletons, goblins, hobgoblins, maybe a dryad or two, and a potentially pixies.

[Nevar]

IMO start out with a pregen, it's laid out easy to follow and a lot of them are based off of core. I would also start them at lvl 1. While not as much fun for a DM to get to lvl 2 or 3 is fairly quick and it shows the players how to play without becoming too complicated too quick which can happen at higher levels.

[Morty]

If there are new players, I'd rather start them on 1st level. This way they won't have to decide on feats and equipment from the start.

[Tormsskull]

Questions for the lot of you. What level do you think is the best level to start the group out at? I'm thinking level 5, but not set on it.

Brand new people? I'd suggest level 1.

[mudbunny]

My recommendation:

The very first meeting, provide them with a bunch a pre-made level 1 core characters, and run some basic gladiatorial combat scenarios. That will help you explain to them the basics of combat. Then, get them to make their own characters, right in front of you so that you can explain things to them.

From there, I would recommend a brief, one-session (two max) with the characters that they made the previous session.

Then, get them to make characters for the longer campaign. I would recommend them starting at Level 1, as they get eased into the amount of options available to them bit by bit.

[Seffbasilisk]

I was thinking level 1, but then I remembered the drudgery of going through kobold after kobold after kobold....and I think I'd like to start them a little more advanced.

The arena sounds like a good idea however, and even a way too boost thier XP a touch.

Keep'm comin' folks!

[selfcritical]

Truthfully, if i'm starting with a new group, I might specifically go with a lot of stuff outside of core, simply because you could get them balanced from the get-go.

[tainsouvra]

If they aren't experienced roleplayers, I'd actually be careful about making too many RP decisions important to their victory--I've played with newish roleplayers and feelings of uncertainty about the game can cause the group to grind to a halt if things get too deep.

[valadil]

Level 1 for sure. You don't want to oversaturate them with rules. If you're worried they'll get bored of low level encounters, level them up earlier than necessary.

[Wolfbite]

There is a hilarious premade adventure you can buy for characters of 0 level! Upon completion you gain your first level in whatever class you're going for. Heck ya peasant adventure!

[tainsouvra]

There is a hilarious premade adventure you can buy for characters of 0 level! Upon completion you gain your first level in whatever class you're going for. Heck ya peasant adventure!

That's a funny idea for an existing group that starts over, where's it at?

[ZeroNumerous]

To everyone who said start at level 1(as well as the OP): Screw that! Level 1 sucks. It's kobold after kobold and you're happy to see a Goblin just to break the monotony! No to level 1. Instead, if you want to ease them into the rules you should start out a level 2. This way, you can throw a few orcs at them without a TPK and no one is squishy enough to die to a common housecat.

However, level 2 starts them off in a situation where they already have a feat(two if they're human, four if they're a fighter!) and will be making a choice for their third level feat when level up time rolls around.

[Matthew]

I would have to also say Level 1.

[Godhand]

I agree with Zero. Level 2 is both a small and huge step away from level 1. Most characters will have 50-75% more HP, everyone gains a +1 BAB, and spellcasters get another spell to throw around. Plus you can give them a bit better equipment than the basic set, letting them get a good feel for selecting different arms and armors.

Yet at the same time everything is still a challenge. A few bad rolls can spell a hard battle, but this way it may not be one good roll or die.

[Sornas]

To everyone who said start at level 1(as well as the OP): Screw that! Level 1 sucks. It's kobold after kobold and you're happy to see a Goblin just to break the monotony!

Erm, there is no need to fight only Kobolds and Goblins at level one, in fact, I would consider that rather unimaginative. Even if you go book-only, refuse-to-edit monsters, there are plenty of options.

Straight from the SRD:
CR 1/2
Tiny Animated object
Dire Rat
Generic Dwarf
Generic Elf
Formian Workers
Generic Gnome
Goblin
Generic Halfling
Hobgoblin
Kobold
Locathah
Merfolk
Orc
Generic Aasimar
Generic Tiefling
Skeleton
Strige
Zombie

CR 1
Small elemental
Small animated object
Darkmantle
Lemure
Generic Drow
Generic Duergar
Shrieker Fungus
Ghoul
Gnoll
Grimlock
Homunculus
Krenshar
Generic Lizardfolk
Pseudodragon
Grig
Nixie
Svirfneblin
Spider swarm
Troglodyte

Not to mention a fair number of animals and vermin under CR 1/2, (Which you might want for the new players, though I cant imagine fighting a weasel is going to get them excited for your game.) and a whole other list of CR 2s that might be able to be used as BBEGs. (Odd calling a CR 2 a BBEG, but you get the idea.)

For example, I'm working on writing the first adventure for a PbP for our college group right now (Party level will be 2) which involves a tribe of Troglodytes that are being manipulated into raiding nearby villages by an outcast Satyr Bard/Ranger. (Homebrew setting, so that isn't as odd as it sounds :P)

And, for the record, my vote is for level one, possibly two, but no higher than three. I can see how a few extra HP and BAB would be good for new players, but be careful, the LAST thing you want to do is alienate your friends from the game by overwhelming them, I see it happen all the time at our college gaming club. Try to keep it simple, but interesting.

I would also reccomend premades for the first session to learn the ropes, but that's really something you should ask your players. Some people wanna make their own character right out of the gate, others want to ease into it.

[Yahzi]

I was thinking level 1, but then I remembered the drudgery of going through kobold after kobold after kobold

One man's drudgery is another man's exciting first time.

Everybody needs a chance to fight kobolds until they've mastered it. At least once. The first time you earn a level is special. Going from 1 to 2 is doubling your power. That's awesome. Don't take that away from your players.

Start them at level 1, and then when they get bored with it, give them enough "RP/Mission Bonus/blah blah" XP to go to level 2 (if you have to).

[JadedDM]

I agree with Sornas. I've started every campaign at level 1, and we've only fought kobolds a couple of times. If all you throw at them is kobolds, yeah that could be boring. But there is no reason for that. There are quite a few things you can use for that level without overwhelming them.

[TheOOB]

I find most often my low level characters end up fighting humans(or dwarves and elves and such). Due to the sheer amount of classes, feats, and weapons, they can be pretty versatile, and easy to scale to level. The only problem is any cool items you give them, the PCs get.

Hmm, now that I think of it, I tend to use humanoids quite a bit, possibly thats why my campaigns tend to be morally ambiguous, no one cares it you kill the tentacled sin against god, but killing a group of human warriors creates interesting situations.

[BardicDuelist]

The think with new players is Keep It Simple. You don't need difficult RP issues since new players tend to RP less (they are still trying to figure out how to do things). Start off with a simple plot dungeon, AT LEVEL ONE. Yes the "kobold after kobold" thing gets old, but having them fight the kobolds, goblins, and orcs teaches them. They game is built that way. Starting them at FIFTH levle is a BAD idea because they will not know how to use what they have, or how to even pick what they have.

That drudgery gets boring for you because you have played before, but it won't be for them. If you don't let them see the MM, they will run form skeletons because they won't know what the skeletons can do. Remember that they don't know what you know. They don't know what monsters can do to them, and I advise keeping it that way (since it makes the game more exciting).

You need to take a step back and realize that what is "simple and boring" to you is new to them. START AT FIRST LEVEL WITH NEW PEOPLE. The game has a built in learning system.

[Swordguy]

For new players? Level 1.

That said, I can't starting at less than level 3 anymore, precisely because 1 bad roll on a crit or some such can annihilate a PC much more easily at 1st level than at any other time.

[ChrisMcDee]

I'll add another voice to the "level 1" choir.

If you feel that the party is stuck at the super low levels for too long then don't let the XP Chart hold you back, just level them a bit faster than usual! Run a very small "starter quest" to ease them in and give them Level 2 when they've completed it. Then you send them into their first dungeon or similar environment they get Level 3 after the main portion of the Dungeon and just before the BBEG. Voila, you're at Level 3! At this point I'd slow things down to normal progression.

[Benejeseret]

Yays to level one

I have recently played through the first three sessions with a brand new 5 man group and starting at level one did not limit the fun/possibilities at all.

As the DM I even changed the very first session mechanics entirely. Basically, with a few of the players I was worried that they had their minds set on munchkinism (ie. kept asking what feats/etc were 'powerful' rather than fun or fit well with a character concept). So, for one day I threw the dice out the window and made them RP the encounters, getting to know their characters a bit, and all fights were RP'd where we made it hard but ensured no TPK's possible.

Now they are rolling dice and have had about 12 encounters so far including a choker, Giant Ants, troglodytes, badgers, and one very hard battle against a level 5 warrior halfling (the troubles rogues start....)

In the next session or two (may have leveled to lvl2 by then) they will meet their first dragon. Not a great wyrm of course, but wyrmlings are only CR3 and doable for a low party (and hey...its a RP game so no need to kill it, nor do monsters always have to fight to the death...monsters are often intelligent and have their own wants/dreams/fears)

Throw in NPC cannon fodder to put the fear/respect into them and help with harder fights. My new lvl1 players just met an Ooze mephit whose powerful Acid Globe attack melted their friendly NPC guide (using up the ability) and will battle them a bit until the cowardly mephit will retreat to its 'lair'. It has the Summon Mephit ability...but chooses not to use it unless cornered in its lair and below 1/2 hitpoints.

Level one is where the challenge is, and challenge is what makes a story intriguing.

Bene

[Jayabalard]

Assuming that you'd like to get into the RP aspect a little bit rather than just playing a "kick down the door" game of D&D, I suggest:

1. create some pre-generated characters and run them through some combat so that they have a basic understanding of how that works. If possible, you may want to do this ahead of time rather than trying to do it on the same day that you are going to create characters and start up the "real campaign".
2. Get them to come up with some character ideas and background before you meet to actually create characters. You can help this by creating a quick questionnaire (see below); you can either write up questions and have them answer back in writing, or just do it verbally and take notes. Make sure that they understand that they're creating new adventurers, and not hardbitten veterans. (ie, level 1 characters)
3. Meet with them ahead of time and get a general feel for what sort of character they're creating so that you can work up a starting adventure and get some ideas for the long term campaign.
4. Help them through the character generation process; keep things simple but help them get to the character that they want to play, or as much of it as is possible for a level 1. If they have some things picked out that they want to be able to do but can't be done at level 1, show them the path that they'll want to take to get there.

The idea beind having a character questionnaire is to have them build a "real person" first rather than just fighter_01, and it really helps you get a pretty good idea of what classes, feats, and skills fit them, so you can steer them into choices that match up with what they want. I don't have any of my actuals lists here, just making up a few basic questions:

1. Race (give them a list)
2. Archetype; not class, just what sort of role will they fill in the party. You'll need to supply a list for this as well.
3. What do you look like (appearance/clothing/armor/weapons)?
4. Who are your family and friends? How do you feel about them?
5. Do you have any habits, quirks or mannerisms that stand out? (Quirks are one of the things I really like about GURPS, so even when playing other systems I often use them to help define characters)
6. Are your decisions based on logic or emotion?
7. How much are you willing to risk to help other people?
8. How do you feel about magic?
9. How do you feel about combat? How do you act in a fight?

[Falrin]

Step 1: Rules.

- Get the basics first: Roll dice + modifier Vs DC.
- Get combat second: Initiative, Move & Standard actions.
- Get non-combat third: Same as combat, but we drop the limits: Just state what you want, when you want it.
- Get the Character Sheet out and explain it all.
- Are there any questions? Yes? It will al be clear after this training.


Step 2: Background.

You're all Joe/Will/Max the 1st LvL Fighter now. You got tired of raising crops and joined the militia. You trained & trained, but these people are not really th "action"-type. You join the real army to get some killing done. After travel late at night you fall asleep in your barrack.

Step 3: Let the serg wake them up and run a training course. Climb the rope, balance the ledge, swim the moat, jump the wall, dodge the falling bag, hit the doll with your sword, hit the bullseye with your bow, finnish.

You get everything: Initiative, Skills, Attacks, Saves, Mechanic: Move/Standard action. Let the serg insult them, discribe failed checks, make the race exiting, let the loser clear horsedung.

Step 4: Goblins have been spotted. Go with your patrol to farm X & ask info. Kill the goblins.
- Talk with farmdude.
- Get a failed ambushed by 'stupid & noisy' goblins
- Let at least 1 goblin run away & 1 throw his weapon down.
- Report to serg.


This gives them a real feeling of the game.
Now explain the basic classes (I'd go Rogue, Sorc, Fighter & Cleric, but you can give them all.) and roll up charcters from scratch.

First adventure: No Black Vs White, lots of grey. A raiding party of young, angry goblins, a Good goblin village & a corrupt mayor that wants there 'mine'. This'll let them think outside the box. Fast Leveling to get casters interested & a good grip of the mechanics. Always ask : What do you want to become and present them a few choices to get there.

[Tallis]

Starting with premade characters a nd training session is a good idea. I'd make them level 3. This way they aren't likely to die before you're done teaching them the basics and they've got a few interesting abilities, but nothing overwhelming for someone just learning.
Have them make their own characters at your second game. Start at level 1. It's just easier to get a feel for the game if you start from the beginning. It's tougher to screw up your build this way too, since they won't be picking so many abilities before learning the game. Also, having tasted the power of level 3, they've got something to strive for.
Start them with some xp. Make sure they all level up at the end of the first adventure. This'll get them exited about leveling and their ability to gain power.
Don't worry about "the drudgery" of fighting kobolds. Did you feel that way when you first started RPing? Probably not. It was probably exciting the first time because it was new. Besides, there's no real reason it has to be that way. My last group didn't meet their first kobold until level 3. There are plenty of other options. It's up to you as the DM to use them. Even if you do go with kobolds, some imagination and a good story can make them just as interesting and exciting as any other foes. Don't treat them as cannon fodder and your players won't see them that way.