Magic/Psionics Transparency?

[Skjaldbakka]

I saw a comment that not using Magic/Psionics transparency is bad.
Why is this so?

[MrNexx]

Without any experience, I would say that it's likely because it means you HAVE to have a psychic to counteract a psychic... Dispel Magic won't do anything against powers, which makes the game more difficult on a non-psychic party (or group of opponents, with a psychic PC)

[MeklorIlavator]

Without any experience, I would say that it's likely because it means you HAVE to have a psychic to counteract a psychic... Dispel Magic won't do anything against powers, which makes the game more difficult on a non-psychic party (or group of opponents, with a psychic PC)

Also, with out the transparency psionic can make a killing out of many supposed mage killers, because their power's aren't effected by spell resistance/immunity.

[Paragon Badger]

What MrNexx said.

Although, my big beef with Psionics and Magic in one campaign is that it makes no sense, from a fluff perspective.

Magic is meant to fill the niche of the mystical, mysterious, power of the mind and such. Psionics is the mysterious power of the mind, too. It simply doesn't make sense to have them both in a setting, to me.

When I DMed, I didn't allow magic but allowed psionics. In fact, psionics effectively replaced magic in the setting. The opposite would very much work, too.[/rant about realism in a game that deliberately forgoes realism]

But from a game mechanics wise, they should be able to dispel/counter one another.

[Kel_Arath]

I think that if there were (and there might be, I havn't looked in my books for a while) spells/powers to counteract the other then it balances out. IE: Dispel Psionics spell.

[Kyeudo]

Magic isn't the power of the mind, its the manipulation of mystical energies through ritual. They both fill their own place in the world, fluff wise.

As for the OP, If you drop Magic-Psionics transparency, it weakens psionic monsters, but buffs psionic PCs, since there are more classes with magic abilities to fry through power resistance, but the Psion can cut right through spell resistance. It also makes for more housekeeping on the part of the DM.

[MrNexx]

Magic is meant to fill the niche of the mystical, mysterious, power of the mind and such. Psionics is the mysterious power of the mind, too. It simply doesn't make sense to have them both in a setting, to me.

I think you're viewing magic differently than the game does.

Magic, in game, is using learned or natural formulae to manipulate the mystic energies of the universe. Psionics is using the power of your own mind to effect changes in the real world.

[Paragon Badger]

Sure, they're both, by definition, different... but they can effectively fill the same role in a story, setting, campaign.

There is only a slight difference between the powerful wizard and the powerful psionicist, if you were to make them a character in a book with no stats. I like both systems, It just seems like too much in one setting.

You have the wizards or clerics who can conjure up fireballs and heal...

And then you have the psionicists who can conjure up... energy balls of fire ...and heal.



Le shrug.

Although, the psionicists have a slightly more varied set of abilities, if you go by the core rules.

[MrNexx]

Sure, they're both, by definition, different... but they can effectively fill the same role in a story, setting, campaign.

Oh, yes, they can fill the same place in the game, usually, but that doesn't change their fluff differences, despite the similarities of end results.

[Xuincherguixe]

I put off reading the psionics rules for too long. I've got to say that I love the idea of them.

I'm also thinking of saying that in an upcoming game of mine, that psionics and arcane magic are not very different things. Forcing ones will on the universe, calling forth energy. It kind of makes sense.

And with that kind of thinking, transparency isn't hard to explain.

[Green Bean]

Sure, they're both, by definition, different... but they can effectively fill the same role in a story, setting, campaign.

There is only a slight difference between the powerful wizard and the powerful psionicist, if you were to make them a character in a book with no stats. I like both systems, It just seems like too much in one setting.

You have the wizards or clerics who can conjure up fireballs and heal...

And then you have the psionicists who can conjure up... energy balls of fire ...and heal.



Le shrug.

Although, the psionicists have a slightly more varied set of abilities, if you go by the core rules.

The thing is, you can say pretty much the same thing about Arcane and Divine spells. Psionics, arcane, divine; they're all magical, but they aren't the same magic.

[tannish2]

i like the way forgotten realms campaign setting handles it, im not sure if its in players guide or campaign setting but it explains it perfectly: arcane/divine magic is drawing from the weave (a FR specific thing its how magic works there for those of you who arent familiar with it, but its similar to generally how magic works in other ones and is the only one with an adequate explanation of dead magic zones) and psionics is drawing power from the part of it within yourself (also a great explanation of why most buffing psionic powers dont effect other people)

and i am currently playing a psionicist in a psionics is different than magic campaign..... stone golem is immune to magic thats fine, save your spells, weve already got mass fly going... fighters... save your HP..... disintegrate... damn thats right they get a LOT of hp... disintegrate... dammit... disintigrate, ok that looks like it did it, lunch anyone?

[Matthew]

I think you're viewing magic differently than the game does.

Magic, in game, is using learned or natural formulae to manipulate the mystic energies of the universe. Psionics is using the power of your own mind to effect changes in the real world.

Not necessarily. The Sorcerer in particular very much appears to derive his power from his inner self, according to the PHB. The 3e Wizard not so much, but his case is also arguable within the RAW, in my opinion (see p. 169 of the PHB, first paragraph).

[Edit]
Looking into it, Complete Arcane appears to support the view of Magic as coming from an unspecified source, but Complete Mage takes a different view.