The Problem with Wizards . . .

[Saph]

. . . is that they depend on the rest of the party not being stupid.

Our party's 9th level - me (enchanter/loremaster) plus a cleric, a ranger, an assassin, and a bard. We're sneaking into a keep filled with giants, trying to steal a sword from the frost giant leader and get out. I've got a set of spells prepared to do the job.

Things start to go wrong when it turns out that the assassin (whose job was to do recon, and who organised our way in) screwed up. He managed not only to tip off the giants that we were coming, but got their identity wrong - the giants who owned the place weren't frost giants, but a trio of elemental magi (MM V). On top of that, he managed to aggravate a fire giant wizard into joining the battle against us, too. As a result, by the time we know we're being ambushed, the assassin's in the wrong place, the ranger's grappled and on zero HP, and me and the cleric have the wrong spells prepared.

The fight goes on for a few rounds, long enough to figure out that elemental magi are REALLY vicious (fast healing, high damage output, good saves, and co-operative tactics). But then, just as they're in the middle of repositioning, I manage to catch them all within 15' of each other, and cast a Confusion spell on the lot. They all fail their saves, and start attacking each other. It looks like the battle's over. Confusion's called a Save-Or-Lose for a reason - once it's cast, the enemies will start killing each other. All you have to do is stand back and not attack them, and you're almost guaranteed to win.

You'd think that would be simple, right?

Nope.

Both the assassin and the cleric proceed to attack the elemental magi from both sides, missing repeatedly. The elemental magi turn on them instead. The assassin gets himself killed. I manage to knock the sword out of the elemental magi leader's hands with a Ray of Clumsiness followed by a Grease from a wand, the bard grabs it, and we teleport out, the cleric almost dying in the process. Final score: one dead PC, no dead giants.

The real weakness of any class isn't its HP or saves or abilities - it's the people you're adventuring with.

- Saph

[Volug]

well everything that could go wrong. well... went wrong. sometimes simple stuff like that can happen cause you get the wrong information.
for example,
i was supposed to kill a bunch of rouge Druids cause they started to rebel.
we were lvl 6 and got information that they were just new recruits and easy to kill.
but there leader in fact was a WereWolf Lord.....we had NO silver weapons so almost all of us died.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

You are obviously right, but if you look at the outcome instead of the process I think it went fairly well.

You got the sword and got rid of the assassin (assuming you do not resurrect him and in that case who is really to blame).

[ranger89]

Out of curiosity, did your character tell the other characters not to attack the elemental magi after they failed their save vs. confusion?

[Saph]

You are obviously right, but if you look at the outcome instead of the process I think it went fairly well.

Oh, I know. In a way it's a demonstration of how effective wizards can be, that so many things went wrong and I was still able to turn it into a partial success. It was just frustrating, especially since next week I'm probably going to have to go back for the assassin's body. :)

Out of curiosity, did your character tell the other characters not to attack the elemental magi failed their save vs. confusion?

Yeah. There was a Message spell running, so I told them all twice, just to make sure they heard. They listened to me for the first three rounds, then simultaneously decided to go in and attack. When I asked the cleric's player why afterwards, his explanation was 'because one of them (elemental magi) wasn't taking enough damage from the other one.'

- Saph

[Callos_DeTerran]

They all fail their saves, and start attacking each other. It looks like the battle's over. Confusion's called a Save-Or-Lose for a reason - once it's cast, the enemies will start killing each other. All you have to do is stand back and not attack them, and you're almost guaranteed to win.

...What ruling of Confusion are you using?

Roll on the following table at the beginning of each subject’s turn each round to see what the subject does in that round.

Quoted from the SRD. Not saying it's not useful but their 'confusion' manifests differently (Or the same way depending how the roll goes) each round. Doesn't justify your party members from suddenly assaulting the Magi if they WERE attacking each other but it'd have given them a reason to be close by in case the rolls DID go badly.

Just pointing it out for future confusion uses.

[Tallis]

Yeah. There was a Message spell running, so I told them all twice, just to make sure they heard. They listened to me for the first three rounds, then simultaneously decided to go in and attack. When I asked the cleric's player why afterwards, his explanation was 'because one of them (elemental magi) wasn't taking enough damage from the other one.'

- Saph

DOH!!!
Did you suggest to him that taking on just the winner of the fight after he'd been weakened might have been more effective than taking on all three?

[Tallis]

...What ruling of Confusion are you using?



Quoted from the SRD. Not saying it's not useful but their 'confusion' manifests differently (Or the same way depending how the roll goes) each round. Doesn't justify your party members from suddenly assaulting the Magi if they WERE attacking each other but it'd have given them a reason to be close by in case the rolls DID go badly.

Just pointing it out for future confusion uses.

Subjects of confusion will defend themselves if attacked, so once they start fighting each other they won't stop. It's a vicious cycle.

[Green Bean]

...What ruling of Confusion are you using?



Quoted from the SRD. Not saying it's not useful but their 'confusion' manifests differently (Or the same way depending how the roll goes) each round. Doesn't justify your party members from suddenly assaulting the Magi if they WERE attacking each other but it'd have given them a reason to be close by in case the rolls DID go badly.

Just pointing it out for future confusion uses.

No, it works. If one of the Magi rolled 'attack the nearest creature', the it works because of

Any confused character who is attacked automatically attacks its attackers on its next turn

Since if they start attacking each other, then it's an infinite loop because they'll always attack and always be attacked the previous turn.

Edit: Ninja'd

[Saph]

DOH!!!
Did you suggest to him that taking on just the winner of the fight after he'd been weakened might have been more effective than taking on all three?

Unfortunately, it was a bit late by then.

Re: Confusion - Yeah. As soon as one of the Confused targets rolls 'Attack Nearest Creature' it becomes an infinite loop.

Confused Creature 1: Attacks Confused Creature 2.
Confused Creature 2: Has been attacked, so attacks 1.
Confused Creature 1: Has been attacked, so attacks 2.
Confused Creature 2: Has been attacked, so attacks 1.

. . . and so on, until one dies or the Confusion ends. At least, as long as no-one interferes . . .

- Saph

[Callos_DeTerran]

...And so it is. Huh.

[ranger89]

Yeah. There was a Message spell running, so I told them all twice, just to make sure they heard. They listened to me for the first three rounds, then simultaneously decided to go in and attack. When I asked the cleric's player why afterwards, his explanation was 'because one of them (elemental magi) wasn't taking enough damage from the other one.'

Oh, geez. If that was the case... I guess you can just take comfort in the fact that your wizard made it out alive.

[Ivellios]

If you had a teleport spell ready, why didn't you use it before the fight got ugly? It sounded like you all knew it was going to pretty much a one sided fight from the beginning.

[Ranis]

Yeah, the Elemental Magi are pretty insane. I'll have to use them on my party someday.

[Belial_the_Leveler]

*Balefires the father of the two elemental magi thus resulting in them never having existed and thus the assasin retroactively being alive*

There. Problem solved.

[Yeygresh]

*Balefires the father of the two elemental magi thus resulting in them never having existed and thus the assasin retroactively being alive*

There. Problem solved.

Yeah, but if he never existed, then he wouldn't have the sword! Then you've got to kill the three Effigies(MM2 pg.89) of the Magi(not fun).

[Vonriel]

Not to mention it'd have to have been a powerful enough spell to wipe out enough years of their life to go back to when the magi were actually born..

[Hallavast]

Well, at least the reentry for the Assassin's body should be easier (since you know what you're up against now...)

Just hope the DM doesnt throw in too many more surprises (like adding additional security or traps because the Magi now know about you).

Good luck!