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Thread: Devil Tricks
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2017-10-26, 02:00 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2014
Devil Tricks
How do you design a devil contract? What tricks could a devil apply to take advantage of the players? Assuming said players are desperate enough to try and negotiate. The details of what either side wants are whatever you feel like.
It probably should not be too long, because digging through 100 pages of text is no fun, more like a short puzzle.Last edited by Yllin; 2017-10-26 at 02:01 AM.
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2017-10-26, 08:40 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2007
- Location
- Cippa's River Meadow
- Gender
Re: Devil Tricks
It depends on what both side wants that dictates the exact shenanigans, but things like subjective time keeping (midnight local time versus midnight GMT), specific requirements ("I specified 3000g of 24 karat purity gold - you've brought me 3999g of 18 karat purity gold, therefore the contract is null and void"), ambiguous wording ("The contract says to bring a cat, what type of cat?") and literal interpretation (take a look at how genie wishes can be interpreted) are standard tricks.
Vaarsuvius' deal with the infernal contractors in episode 633 is a good start.
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2017-10-26, 09:40 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2006
- Location
- California
- Gender
Re: Devil Tricks
Devils want souls for power or bargaining chips.
If I help you I would like to have something that does not cost you anything. You can give freely and is not collectable as long as you live.
We had an imp use his teleport ability to collect the soul when the player, NPC died in a vile that imp later used the summon power and gave 4 to 6 souls to the middle manager devil of the plane he worked for.
Red fel is said middle manager on this forum.
Red fel
Red fel
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2017-10-26, 10:14 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2015
- Location
- Texas
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Re: Devil Tricks
Guides
Monk dipping for pathfinder druids, a mini guide
Trapped Under Ice-Geddy2112's guide to the Pathfinder Winter Witch
I contributed to this awesome guide to chaotic good
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2017-10-26, 10:26 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2006
- Location
Re: Devil Tricks
Depending on the devil and his long-term prospects, I'd actually make the contracts clear about what they entail. The first few times should be about repeat business. Show customers that there are satisfied customers. Sure, the price is high, even painful, but it wasn't deceptive. The customer got what they wanted and knew what they were paying.
Slip in an ambiguous term or two, but then take something that satisfies it without being nefarious or particularly painful. Build up trust.
If the devil has them over a barrel, he doesn't need to trick them. Just spell out the price, and grin because they can't afford to walk away.
And if you are going to pull "the devil is in the details" style trickery, don't do it with "hah, you don't get what you want." Do it with "the price is higher than you thought." Examples of the bad way to do it are in the opera episode of Futurama, with the first few deals the Robot Devil makes. But an example of the last kind - the brilliant kind - is his deal with Leela. (I won't spoil it here for those who haven't seen it.) He gave her what she asked with no tricks, and actually asked a seemingly high price she was willing to pay. But the trick was that the price was different, without necessarily being higher. Or much higher. Depending on how you read it.
The BEST kind of "devil contract" trick is the one where the devil doesn't get anything the other party didn't expect him to...directly. And the other party gets what they asked for. If the other party is not happy with the outcome, it is not because the devil tricked them. There was no "limited uses" clause, no technical words...it's just what they asked for. They just...didn't think it through, and it didn't bring them the joy they expected it to. Avoid even engaging in Gifts of the Magi, where the price undermines the thing gained.
And the devil doesn't take anything the other party didn't expect. No surprise costs that rely on tricky wording or obscured definitions. Instead, the devil takes exactly what the other party expected him to...and then parleys that into a much greater reward.
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2017-10-26, 12:04 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2006
- Location
- California
- Gender
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2017-10-27, 12:16 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2010
- Location
- Western Washington
- Gender
Re: Devil Tricks
I feel like you should just search for "Red Fel" and "Asmodeus" in the forum search and read everything you find. I'm not in a position to do it now, but I did have this bookmarked. It's a start.
Compliance Will Be Rewarded - A Guide to Lawful Evil
Edit: I had a moment, so I found one of the ones I remember being very fun to read.
DM is going to let me strike a deal with Asmodeus, need ideas
Edit 2: Also these three.
How Do You Like Your Devil Contracts: Convoluted, or Dark Side Up?
Help me weasel out of a pact sworn in blood.
Asmodeus Campaign
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2017-10-27, 08:02 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2013
Re: Devil Tricks
Yo. That said, I feel like this one covered it:
Short version? What a Devil applies isn't complex legalese, it's a combination of "desperation" and "foolishness." Desperation, in that coming to the PCs with a bargain when they're at their lowest is the best way to get them to agree to your terms. Foolishness, in that a smart Devil could give anybody exactly what they asked for, no tricks and no strings, and still get the better of them, because people ask for what they think they want, not what they actually need. You don't even need to pull Literal Genie tricks. Dealing with a Devil is an inherently corrupting act; when people know that the easy way out is only a phone call away, they won't hesitate as much next time. Or the time after.
Your deals don't need to be sneaky. It's even better if they're completely honest. Give the PCs exactly what they think they want, and watch them doom themselves.My headache medicine has a little "Ex" inscribed on the pill. It's not a brand name; it's an indicator that it works inside an Anti-Magic Field.
Blue text means sarcasm. Purple text means evil. White text is invisible.
My signature got too big for its britches. So now it's over here!
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2017-10-27, 09:10 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2006
- Location
Re: Devil Tricks
I want to emphasize this. A really clever Devil can even warn people in such a way that they gave them the opportunity to see the error of their choice, but the customer wanted it so badly they demanded it anyway.
And always be there to sell them the way out of their problem.
Remember: you didn't trick them. (You didn't. Don't do it.) But you're here to help. Whatever they want. For the right price.
Including a legitimate solution that you know will work out well for the client...that happens to be evil.
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2017-10-28, 03:38 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2011
- Location
- The Middle of Nowhere
- Gender
Re: Devil Tricks
One good place to start looking is Ipkesh's deal in Critical Role. The deal is straightforward, and the first clause is quite simple: they do something for him, he does something for them. The fun comes from the temptation that is written further into the contract. Maybe someone isn't having their worst day ever right now when they make a deal with a devil. After all, some people have the self control to not make deals with devils with their backs against the wall. But some day, they may need that extra kick. The fate of the world may be at stake, or death might just be too inconvenient right then, and you've already left them with the easy out.
After all, devils are all about temptation. The main deal being finished shouldn't necessarily mean the end of the devil's role in the story.Awesome avatar by Cuthalion
Spoiler: Old Avatars
By Ceika, Ceika, Linklel (Except for one that appears to be lost to time)
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2017-10-28, 01:06 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2007
- Location
- Cippa's River Meadow
- Gender
Re: Devil Tricks
I enjoyed that read, although if I may make two comments:
1) That is a lot of effort to gain one soul, so it's very much quality over quantity and the epitome of the elegant refined devil. However this is making the assumption that the soul is of high worth and/or the person will be in a advantageous position at a later point - what happens if the person making the deal is neither? Using a legal analogy, there is a time and place for the legal dream team in a high profile celebrity murder case which will take months, but the vast majority of people will only need an ambulance chasing personal injury lawyer that will only take a week or two.
2)Some of the examples are less tempting a person and more like a spy turning someone into an asset (which would make for an interesting campaign with the players being either divine or infernal agents in a celestial cold war, trying to advance their cause to take over the plane in proxy wars). If it's just turning someone to your cause, it's less about tempting and more about straight up conversion - the MICE (Money, Ideology, Conscience, Ego) methodology is good start - in which case the devil might as well be a spy from a hostile country, only with the [Evil] descriptor.
I'm reminded of a scene from the book Good Omens where two elder demons (one a duke of Hell) and a younger modern demon are discussing what they've done to advance the cause of Hell. The elder demons are chipping away slowly at an archbishop and a politician respectively (one estimates that they'll have the soul within a decade), while the younger one tied up the telephone network of London for 4 hours. The elder demons can't understand how that would help, while the young one tried to think of a way to explain how he raised the general miasma of nastiness for millions of souls due to people taking out their frustrations on their secretaries/families/co-workers/random passersby.
To use an modern analogy, I guess it would be like randomly DDOS-ing critical internet network hubs, so people lose connection at random. The salt from all the competitive online gamers alone would keep Hell well stocked for months, let alone all the businesses dependent on modern connectivity, social media users, etc.