Good werewolfs?? (or other lycatrophes)

[Kiyona]

Hi!

Sick of getting my ass totally kicked when playing healbot or any type of arcane caster I have decided to play a meleetype PC in my next game.

So, Ive been looking at werewolfs. Mostly because I love the fluff. ^^

But, Im not alowed to play one since its chaotic evil. But I seem to remember
that there is, in fact, a type of CG werewolfs as well. Worshipping Selune maybe...

As I cant remeber in what book I read about it, I cant show it to my DM...

Can you give me a few pointers perhaps?

[Solo]

How are you getting your ass kicked as a healbot or arcane caster?

What I'm thinking is that you may be using poor tactics/strategy that gets you into trouble.

Whatever you build, you'll want to make sure you've got the right strategy and tactics at hand for it.

Know thy enemy, know thy self.

[Douglas]

Werebears are lawful good. Wereboars and weretigers are neutral.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

If you look under the template you can see that the CE alignment is not mandatory.

Alignment: Any. Noble creatures such as bears, eagles, and lions tend to produce good-aligned lycanthropes. Sinister creatures such as rats, snakes, and wolves tend to produce evil-aligned lycanthropes. This is a reflection of how these animals are perceived, not any innate quality of the animal itself, so the alignment of the animal form can be arbitrarily assigned.

[Paragon Badger]

Didn't you ever watched the last season of Angel? ;-)

Good-aligned lycanthrope that feels guilty everytime it's that time of the month.

[Kiyona]

How are you getting your ass kicked as a healbot or arcane caster?

Well... i dont really know actually. But generally with this DM the melee types kick ass whilst the normally very powerfull casters keep being killed. Over and over again...

If you look under the template you can see that the CE alignment is not mandatory.

It is?? Oh, thats great. ^^ Then Its probably the DM that doesnt want me to play one... Lets hope he just doesnt know what hes talking about.

[Solo]

How does he kill casters? Does he target them out for special attention when enemies attack or something?

Perhaps you should talk with your DM about the unfair treatment of casters. Communication is important.

Oh, and as for the DM not knowing that there can be good aligned lycathropes, I didn't know either, so he could have made and honest mistake.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

It is?? Oh, thats great. ^^ Then Its probably the DM that doesnt want me to play one... Lets hope he just doesnt know what hes talking about.

Well, if he insists there is always the Weretiger or maybe Wereeagle.

[MrNexx]

There are the lythari... CG elven werewolves who can only pass on their affliction to willing elves. They're in Monsters of Faerun, and mentioned in Races of Faerun.

[Kiyona]

How does he kill casters? Does he target them out for special attention when enemies attack or something?

Perhaps you should talk with your DM about the unfair treatment of casters. Communication is important.

Oh, and as for the DM not knowing that there can be good aligned lycathropes, I didn't know either, so he could have made and honest mistake.

The thing is, im a beginner... so i dont have the best strategies. But as soon as one of my spells fails (and they do, often... ***ing will saves ^^) the enemy realises me being the caster and as such the highest threat. Blinking in right next to me and smash.... nothing left but a puddle of blood. Casters doesnt have very good HP. ^^

Maybe I should talk to him... but I really think the problem is me not being experienced enough to play a beguiler (as I did the last time) well.

Wereeagle?? That sounds strange...
Do they get wings?

There are the lythari... CG elven werewolves who can only pass on their affliction to willing elves. They're in Monsters of Faerun, and mentioned in Races of Faerun.

Oh, that was what I was looking for. Thanks, now Im gonna go show it to my DM.

[JadedDM]

Wereravens are also good (NG, I believe) although I'm uncertain if they were ever converted to 3E or not.

I do believe wereboars are also good in alignment.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Wereeagle?? That sounds strange...
Do they get wings?

Only in animal form, but it is great for utility and travel.

[Zincorium]

The thing is, im a beginner... so i dont have the best strategies. But as soon as one of my spells fails (and they do, often... ***ing will saves ^^) the enemy realises me being the caster and as such the highest threat. Blinking in right next to me and smash.... nothing left but a puddle of blood. Casters doesnt have very good HP. ^^

Well, playing a caster is a bit of an art, and there's always room for improvement (logic ninja may, I repeat, may be an exception to that).

First off, against legitimate foes who aren't the BBEG, your save DCs should be high enough that failures are rare. Look at improving your main stat and use high level spells, and then realize that you should target your opponent's weak saves. This doesn't have to mean metagaming, trying fortitude saves on an ogre should be an obviously bad idea, whereas will saves make sense 'cause it's dumb as heck.

'Blinking in right next to you' should be a very uncommon occurrence, if it's happening all the time without explanation, your DM is being a ****, pure and simple, and you need to let him know it'd be nice if you didn't get attacked unreasonably.

Lastly, while the hit points are kind of a hard thing to increase without Prcs, constitution should be your 2nd highest stat next to your primary spellcasting, for the fortitude bonus as well as the bonus. Playing to the 'casters are frail' stereotype only hurts you. As well, figuring out a way to use armor while minimizing arcane spell failure is a solid tactic, mithril chain shirts with the PHB2's twilight enchantment are perfect for the average caster as non proficiency means nothing since they have no armor check penalty (read the armor proficiency feats in the PHB to see the exact rules, you can wear any armor without proficiency but there are penalties based off the armor check penalty).

[Solo]

If you go Cleric, you can have an AC rivaling that of the fighter, good hit points, good fort and will saves, and access to so many good combat spells.... scratch that, access to so many good spells.

Divine Favor, Magic Weapon (and Greater Magic Weapon), Bull's Strength, Bear's Endurance, Shield of Faith, Protection from Evil...

Then there's Domain Powers, which bring a whole new level of awesome to play.

"Oh crap, I failed the save. I guess I'm dead now... but wait! I can reroll one dice roll once per day!" - Luck Domain.

Also, obligatory link when arcane casters are mentioned in any thread:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18500

[Kiyona]

If you go Cleric, you can have an AC rivaling that of the fighter, good hit points, good fort and will saves, and access to so many good combat spells.... scratch that, access to so many good spells.

Divine Favor, Magic Weapon (and Greater Magic Weapon), Bull's Strength, Bear's Endurance, Shield of Faith, Protection from Evil...

Then there's Domain Powers, which bring a whole new level of awesome to play.

"Oh crap, I failed the save. I guess I'm dead now... but wait! I can reroll one dice roll once per day!" - Luck Domain.

Also, obligatory link when arcane casters are mentioned in any thread:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18500

Haha, yeah... I played a priest in the WOW D20 once. But they are not at all that powerful. ^^ Clerics and paladins are banned from this game actually... wanted to play cleric. =(

So, what Im playing now is a beguiler working as caster/skillmonkey and healbot (UMD). With a pseudodragon rogue cohort also capable of UMD when I go below 0 HP.

That isnt working at all since all my spells require will saves. Last session I tried all I could to boost my DC, but that wasnt enough. And I mentioned it to the DM who says that the only reason all bad guys made their saves is that he got lucky rolls.... But he always roll absurdly well. Hate his dice. ^^

So... I have now given up. Want to play a big stupid melee wolf who kills people with direct damage.

I actually have a quite nice mental image already. ^^

[lord_khaine]

well the case is lycantrope isnt a standart race, and it requires special permission from the gm to play one.

the next best(better) thing is to play a druid, they got lots of good things going for them, full caster, medium BAB, decent HP and wildshape.

[Kioran]

I think there was a PrC somewhere out there which allowed you to "master" your were-aspect as an afflicted were, without changing your alignment. Prerequisite is making all will saves against alignment changes until you qualifiy for the PrC - but I can´t find it. Does anybody know where it´s from?

[Kurald Galain]

It's quite funny how the MM simply assumes a priori that bears are noble whereas wolves are sinister. Animal psychologists would disagree.

[Kurald Galain]

So, what Im playing now is a beguiler working as caster/skillmonkey and healbot (UMD). ... That isnt working at all since all my spells require will saves.

Beguilers are a very awesome class. If the bad guys always get lucky rolls, I suspect likewise that your DM is a ****. But depending on their level, beguilers have a number of alternatives like illusions (minor image and such), buffing the party, Shadow Evocation, and taking extra spells via the Arcane Disciple feat.

[Kiyona]

Beguilers are a very awesome class. If the bad guys always get lucky rolls, I suspect likewise that your DM is a ****. But depending on their level, beguilers have a number of alternatives like illusions (minor image and such), buffing the party, Shadow Evocation, and taking extra spells via the Arcane Disciple feat.

I thought that they looked awesome as well. ^^ Hm... doesnt shadow evocation requires will save as well?? I tried throwing an ice spell (dont remeber the name) at a red dragon... and he got a will save. Only took 20%of the original damage.

But still, I want to play a werewolf. ^^ Does lythari get a hybrid form as well? Or only normal wolf form?

[The Prince of Cats]

How does he kill casters? Does he target them out for special attention when enemies attack or something?

Perhaps you should talk with your DM about the unfair treatment of casters. Communication is important.

My group are all veterans of Shadowrun; we know the cry - "Geek the mage first!" - and it has served us well...

[MrNexx]

My group are all veterans of Shadowrun; we know the cry - "Geek the mage first!" - and it has served us well...

There is that... and beguilers aren't a heavy defense class.

[leperkhaun]

The thing is, im a beginner... so i dont have the best strategies. But as soon as one of my spells fails (and they do, often... ***ing will saves ^^) the enemy realises me being the caster and as such the highest threat. Blinking in right next to me and smash.... nothing left but a puddle of blood. Casters doesnt have very good HP. ^^

Maybe I should talk to him... but I really think the problem is me not being experienced enough to play a beguiler (as I did the last time) well.

since you are new to DnD and casters. Sit down and read all your potental spells. One of the key things about bieng a caster is selecting the right spells. Putting fireball and lightening in all your spell slots isnt a good idea. Besides the blasting spells you need escape and some utility spells.

When selecting your spells check out what saves they allow. Its a good idea to have a mix of spells that dont allow saving throws, use reflex, use fort, and use will saves.

Before you sling a spell think for a second if that guy is likely to save against it. For example, That big burly warrior of doom is likly to save against your disintigration (since more warrior types have good fort saves), but will probably fail a will save (from say a dominate or hold spell). On the other hand that frail wizardly type will more likely fail your disintigrate than your dominate.

Like wise carry around a wand or two of ray of enfebblement. Nothing like taking away that melee monster's damage and attack way down and then making it helpless after a couple rounds. In this direction keep some wands (and eventually rods and staffs) on you at all times. Iv found that having a wand of something greatly helps.

A wand of fireball means you can still hurl doom without worrying about your spells later on. Got a locked door that has been arcane locked so you cant open it? Bust out the wand of shatter, and make a hole NEXT to the door and use that as a door. Got 200 ft of lava you have to cross and no way to get there and only levitate prepared? That wand of Tenser's floating disk helps get your friends across.

Get a wand of fly and greater invisibility. Nothing worse than a mage hurling doom from 700 ft in the air, you cant see him, and he has protection against arrows.

When looking at spells remember to look at combinations. For a super simple example, use flesh to stone then shatter.

Ready your actions. Mr. So and So charges you.....well you had readied our action so instead of charging into you he hits a prismatic wall.......

[MrNexx]

I love how many people are, instead of answering her question, instead trying to guide her to play an optimized beguiler.

[Kiyona]

I love how many people are, instead of answering her question, instead trying to guide her to play an optimized beguiler.

Hehe, yeah... I think the common view is that beguilers and other casters rock... and fighters doesnt. ^^
Do you know wether the lythari get hybrid form?

But, any advice is good since I will be playing at least one more time before I am alowed to change PC.


leperkhaun

Those are really good advice.
Some points I cant follow though, beguilers doesnt prepare spells... and has almost no spells that require saves other than will.

The wand thing is great on the other hand. ^^ I already hav one of CLW, but I never thought of carry other types of wands. I think my beguiler will have to go on a shopping spree when we get back to town.

[leperkhaun]

Hmmmm forgot to mention i was talking about mostly core spell casters...the wizards and spell casters who do prepare spells.

As to beguiler, im not very familer with that class, hehe sorry i skipped a couple posts in the thread

Just remember to try to mix things up in your selection of abilities and what you do. If you cant hurl doom, have a thing or two that can either help your buddies or hinder your enemies. Sometimes making things a pain for the enemy can be just as good or better than hurling doom.

One of the things about casters is just knowing what they can do. Most of this will come from experiance as you play, learning what spells/abilities are good for getting "around" the way things are suppose to be done.

Have fun with the beguiler.

[lord_khaine]

actualy the wand of fireball isnt that good an idea, the dc on it suck, and for a basic wand the damage will be lousy (5d6).
if you wizard is still alive you might consider casting a defence spell before you start to nuke thing, like fx mirror image or improved invisibility.

as for the werewolf thingy, now that i think about it, there is a class in the eberon book, weretouched master that will allow you to be a werewolf without changing aligment.

[Leliel]

Wereravens are also good (NG, I believe) although I'm uncertain if they were ever converted to 3E or not.

They are!?
Whoohoo! I can play my dream character!

[Leliel]

It's quite funny how the MM simply assumes a priori that bears are noble whereas wolves are sinister. Animal psychologists would disagree.

I agree. QFT.
Speaking of wolves, shoudn't they be Lawful Aligned? Pack animals, and all that.

[Tyger]

Yes, unfortunately the DM is final arbiter of the Were classes, and it sounds as though this DM is already being a bit tight in the freedom department (not only "rolling" so as to frustrate you, but also forbiding clerics and paladins (though one would question the no paladin decision!)) he may well stick to the alignment restrictions of the Were critters even if he allows weres in the first place.

If that is the case, definitely go with a good aligned one. Bears, eagles, and lions are the ones noted in the MM, but any supposedly "good" critter would qualify. Tigers, apes, hawks, etc all good choices.

Remember, there will be a LA and animal HD involved as well, so choose wisely. Sure, it sounds great to play a Were-tiger, but when you factor in the +3 LA and the 6 HD of tiger... your level 10 character is only a level 1 fighter. Granted, a level 1 fighter with high Str, DR 10 / Silver, and all the other goodness.

The were-wolf in our party is kind of getting shafted on his lycanthropy... so just be aware.