Becoming a Lich

[Voltage89]

Hey everyone. I am creating a campaign right now and the main villian is a necromancer that worships Orcus and is looking to become a Lich. I was wondering what you guys think would be a cool reason for him to want to do this. I was at first thinking about him being cursed, but I don't like the idea that he is not truly a bad guy and that the curse just forced him to be bad. I think motivation is rather important when building up a character. Any ideas would be appreciated.

[Esprit15]

Some people have plans/goals that take longer than a normal lifetime to complete. Some of these people also have a loose sense of ethics and are not above the most heinous crimes against nature to see these goals through.

[KarlMarx]

If they're a dedicated worshiper of Orcus, they might well become a Lich to 'please' the demon lord.

Otherwise, I think fear of death is most likely...or the fear that, if they don't become an intelligent undead, their fellow cultists will raise them as a less intelligent one...

[arrowed]

Fear of death, such as exhibited by Lord Voldemort, is a common reason.
Conversely, they could be somewhat obsessed with death (as might be expected of an Orcus worshipper) and consider it a step towards that which they enjoy.
Maybe your villain admires undeath for its detachment from 'base' needs (sleep, food, etc) and sees lichdom as the removal of petty mortal needs from their life.
Perhaps they consider it the ideal state of being, superior to conventional life.
If other liches exist in your setting, maybe they consider one or more of those beings role models (or some version of all the cool casters become liches )
Maybe they have a strong tie to a particular item, such as a work of art, and have the belief that the perfect way to express their love of this object is to preserve their soul in it.
Maybe a blend of many of the above.

[Xuc Xac]

Hey everyone. I am creating a campaign right now and the main villian is a necromancer that worships Orcus and is looking to become a Lich. I was wondering what you guys think would be a cool reason for him to want to do this.

To me, this is like saying:
"Hey everyone. I am creating a campaign right now and the main character is a world-class athlete that trains for the Olympics and is looking to get a medal. I was wondering what you guys think would be a cool reason for him to want the gold one."

Why would you go to all the effort to be a necromancer who worships Orcus and NOT try to become a lich? Is there a better option? Some kind of hyper-ultra-mega-lich maybe?

[Fable Wright]

Why would you go to all the effort to be a necromancer who worships Orcus and NOT try to become a lich? Is there a better option? Some kind of hyper-ultra-mega-lich maybe?

I think the decision flowchart was "I want to be a lich" -> "I need to find someone willing to make me a lich" -> "Worship Orcus". The question is, what prompted event number 1 on the chain?

You could have a mundane answer, such as 'be the epitome of your craft, the perfect form of undead', but that's a boring motivation. Why might one want to become a lich that isn't the same as 99% of other liches?

My thoughts would be:

• He wants to be the archivist for the end of all things. Record the death of every god and religion, until the plane is just an empty husk for him and him alone to reside on.
• As per Xykon, he refuses to admit defeat. To anyone. For any reason. He will sacrifice all joys in life, sacrifice his flesh, his soul, everything to avoid being bested. And at the moment, he has one very particular grudge in mind... and he knows he'll be killed his first try, no matter what.
• Godhood. The world is flawed, horrendously, and no one else is seeing it. I need to fix this. But as a mortal, the odds are measured in billionths, if that. The only way I can live long enough to figure out the means of ascension, to fix this blasted world, is to study for eternity the very fabric of reality. Then, perhaps, I'll finally be able to right it all...
• There are monters out there so absurdly deadly that one could not approach without nearly guaranteeing their own death, even with the most intensive magical protections around. So long as your corpse is near this thing, no resurrection magic will save you. To study them, replicate their powers, even transport them to new environments to see how they react... this requries a form of immortality that no contingent spell matrix could replicate. Only a lich's undeath can allow one to unlock the potential of these living superweapons.

Any of those would make for a more interesting story than "I want power for power's sake, because that is who I am."

[Voltage89]

Thanks guys. I think I'm gonna go with the fact that he is obsessed with undead and wants to put the whole world to waste other than the undead. I had one other quick question. I was looking for him to fight my players around when they are all level 5. I will have 3 to 4 players in the campaign and I was wondinger how I build a necromancer that would be a hard challenge for them. Around what level would he have to be?

[Fable Wright]

Thanks guys. I think I'm gonna go with the fact that he is obsessed with undead and wants to put the whole world to waste other than the undead. I had one other quick question. I was looking for him to fight my players around when they are all level 5. I will have 3 to 4 players in the campaign and I was wondinger how I build a necromancer that would be a hard challenge for them. Around what level would he have to be?

Which game and/or edition is this?

[Voltage89]

D&d 5th Edition

[Fable Wright]

Judging by estimated CRs, if you want him to be a solo threat, put him at level 9 casting with the Mage stat block "should" make him a solo deadly encounter for 4 level 5 adventurers. But... with 40hp, he's very much a glass cannon. What I would do is make him level 7, make sure he has Dimension Door so he can retreat in turn 2-3 of combat, and give him, say, a Flesh Golem, a Quasit, and maybe 2 skeleton archers and two Zombies as the bulk of the (Deadly+) encounter, with his contribution boiling down to casting a Necrotic damage Fireball, one Counterspell, and then Dimension Door-ing to leave (after strolling behind an altar or something to break line of sight for PC counterspells). Definitely make sure he casts Shield if he's attacked, and that he has either a second-level False Life or second-level Armor of Agathys cast to boost up his measly HP a bit.

[Voltage89]

That does seem like a good level for the overall encounter but I feel like he may be way to easy to kill. At 40 hp he could easily be killed in one round. A ranger using a long bow and hunters mark, if he hits both attacks that is, would do about 20 or so damage at least. That puts the boss of the entire beginning to the campaign to half hp after one characters turn. That just seems way to easy. The rest of the battle may be difficult then but it seems to lose the climax as he may die so early on.

[Fable Wright]

That does seem like a good level for the overall encounter but I feel like he may be way to easy to kill. At 40 hp he could easily be killed in one round. A ranger using a long bow and hunters mark, if he hits both attacks that is, would do about 20 or so damage at least. That puts the boss of the entire beginning to the campaign to half hp after one characters turn. That just seems way to easy. The rest of the battle may be difficult then but it seems to lose the climax as he may die so early on.

Then what you do is give him Armor of Agathys (lv2, cast before the fight) for 10 temporary HP, give him Mage Armor pre cast (~15 AC), Shield if he's attacked (~20 AC), and cover got IIRC +4 AC. Then he drops prone if seriously hurt for disadvantage on ranged attacks and then D. Doors off. Very unlikely he'll actually die.

[Voltage89]

I get what your saying but in my opinion, him almost dying in two rounds of combat seems to me like a pretty ****ty villain. I might only have him have two skeletons and two zombies but then make him a good bit stronger. If I did that, what level do you think would be good?

[Voltage89]

I think I am actually going to keep him at level 7 and modify some things like his hp to make him a little stronger.

[noob]

If you increase his hp I suggest to not be stingy and give him 80 hp and increase his cr by 1(recalculate the rest appropriately)
If you do increase his stats without increasing his cr it will not be fair.

[Voltage89]

If you increase his hp I suggest to not be stingy and give him 80 hp and increase his cr by 1(recalculate the rest appropriately)
If you do increase his stats without increasing his cr it will not be fair.

Is there a way to really calculate the CR of a PC character?

[noob]

Oh you are using a PC?
I believed that in 5e we did stat blocks for monsters instead of building them the same way as pc?
I guess I am confusing five or six game systems.
Is it a caster in an unspecified system which use hp?

[Yora]

I see becoming a lich not as a very important step in the life and undeath of a necromancer.

"I am old. I have necromantic powers. I don't want to die yet."

When that old hard becomes a burden, you just use your skills and powers to replace it. It's less a transformation to a higher state of existance but a form of life extension. When you are an aging necromancer, you probably have been dabling in using dark magic to give your body a boost of unholy vigor for a good while. Eventually, turning yourself fully undead is not going to look like a big step anymore.

[Voltage89]

Oh you are using a PC?
I believed that in 5e we did stat blocks for monsters instead of building them the same way as pc?
I guess I am confusing five or six game systems.
Is it a caster in an unspecified system which use hp?

I would rather do stat blocks but I dont really understand how to do it with the damage parts when it comes to casters. For instance, his damage when using a necromatic fireball will be much higher than when he uses a lower level spell.

[Voltage89]

fdadafdsafdsafdsa

[Voltage89]

fpdasfdosapfdf

[SirGraystone]

Sarumane the White, greatest wizard of the realm, is looking for brave adventurers to destroy the orcs of Mordor and brings back an evil artifact so he could remove the curse and destroy it safely.

Find a way to have the wizard hire the PCs, lying to them to have them gather the components needed to become a lich.

[Voltage89]

Sarumane the White, greatest wizard of the realm, is looking for brave adventurers to destroy the orcs of Mordor and brings back an evil artifact so he could remove the curse and destroy it safely.

Find a way to have the wizard hire the PCs, lying to them to have them gather the components needed to become a lich.

I actually already have a pretty good idea about how I am going to do that. He is an evil wizard that they will meet early on but he uses the alter self spell to disguise himself as one of the kings right hand men. He will be convincing the players to get components for a potion that will be basically like an anti-lich potion. But in reality, It is actually the potion to turn someone into a lich. I have him and the book he will use to become a lich made and I posted it as another post if you want to check it out.

[noob]

I actually already have a pretty good idea about how I am going to do that. He is an evil wizard that they will meet early on but he uses the alter self spell to disguise himself as one of the kings right hand men. He will be convincing the players to get components for a potion that will be basically like an anti-lich potion. But in reality, It is actually the potion to turn someone into a lich. I have him and the book he will use to become a lich made and I posted it as another post if you want to check it out.

If there is one of those crazy players who drinks random potions would you find that fun?

[JellyPooga]

It might be interesting for an adventurer to want to be a Lich, simply to save having to constantly fork out for the diamonds required for Ressurection spells. What started out as a practicality, turned into an obsession, sort of thing.

[Voltage89]

My plan isn't for a player to become a lich though but it would be interesing

[jojo]

As an alternative suggestion...

You could use one of the numerous wizards introduced in the Tomb of Annihilation adventure module. Following those events either of the wizards in question, both of whom had previously been resurrected, could undergo a crisis and decide to pursue Lichdom.

[Joe dirt]

Some people would do anything to live forever... perhaps he is looking for ancient knowledge to become a Lich book of ultimate evil anyone?

[Segev]

"I don't want to die" is a pretty valid reason for seeking lichdom. It is, in fact, considered the default reason. I suggest going with that if you don't have any other motives that are more interesting.

[Voltage89]

Thanks everyone! I got it all figured out.