Whe left him two days food, a pistol, and one round...

[Neon Knight]

So I was planning a campaign were the players start as convicts sentenced to be exiled to a penal colony, akin to Australia. The players will be ECL 3. The authorities responsible for their sentence are fairly humane, thus the bleak chance of scraping out a living in a backwoods instead of a summary execution. The question arose, however: How much resources do I give them?

If I don't give them enough, resource dependent classes like fighters will suffer to the point that they can't contribute while sorcerers have a blast. If I give them too much, I lose that pressured for resources feel that I'm looking for.

Further Scenario Info:
The actual terrain they are exiled to is an archipelago. The waters between the islands are akin to plains of sea grass that are traversable at low tides. The isles are mostly marshes and mangrove swamps. Some other convicts and exiles have managed to build sparse settlements, but the only way the PCs can acquire resources is through the death of said exiles and convicts who happen to be pretty tough buggers.

So, what amount of GP should I chuck at the PCs? Or should I carefully pick and choose their equipment for them?

[RandomNPC]

convicts and whatnot, i'd say not much. the only problem being if a caster took eschew materials.....

i'd leave them all a simple weapon, five ammo for the ranged fighters, and one less apple then there are characters. they arent supposed to fight over who goes hungry, the drop team just ran out of apples, but they aren't supposed to know that.

[horseboy]

Well, you could always watch an episode of Survivorman, give them what he takes.

Remember: Even spell casters can't do much without material components.

I'd say, oh, hand axe, 50' rope, dagger, tent, a week or so of rations, some bulk cloth, some seeds to grow some crops, flint & steel, uh let them have one personal item, I guess.

(Weird, axe isn't in Firefox's spell checker)

[Darth Mario]

Take a look at D20 Apocalypse, whether or not you know jacksquat about D20 Modern. The beginning of the book has a lot of useful stuff for running games in your kind of situation, no matter what system you're using. Also, if you're up for a touch of conversion, there are rules for scavenging. I'd veer towards too little gear over too much, but remember: You're on a prison island. Spell components aren't exactly common, so (he might kill you for this, but it'll keep him from ruining the game) make the Sorcerer keep track of spell components.

If I was running this game, I'd give the best items to the other settlers, but I'd also allow them to scavenge basic gear from some "fallen civilization" that inhabited the islands before it was used for it's current perpose.

Edit: Uggg... double simu'd.

[Jack_Simth]

Whatever you like, for the flavor.

They could be dropped off with the stuff they had (Wealth-By-Level) in a locked chest (which, after being dropped off, they could pick/bash open).

They could be dropped off in their skin, left to survive (or not).

They could be dropped off with their clothes, two days food, and some farming equipment.

They could be dropped off in their skin and immediately set upon by a similar group that has slightly more equipment than it's supposed to (and be a little lower in level).

[bugsysservant]

Why not let the players pick? Allow them to select 2-5 GP worth of stuff each and send them off with that, the clothes on their backs, and, if you're feeling nice, a ration each.

[MrNexx]

So I was planning a campaign were the players start as convicts sentenced to be exiled to a penal colony, akin to Australia. The players will be ECL 3. The authorities responsible for their sentence are fairly humane, thus the bleak chance of scraping out a living in a backwoods instead of a summary execution. The question arose, however: How much resources do I give them?

I'd give them a each knife, a handaxe, and a standard unit of food (i.e. not a day, but shorter than a month). To each group, I'd give rope, several jugs of water, and several yards of canvas.

This is all relatively cheap, but gives them a decent chance for survival without requiring every group to have a ranger or druid, or arming them with ranged weapons. If they work together, they can survive, but building defenses and such will not happen if they choose to kill each other off.

I would then stick an abandoned city somewhere on the island, packed with undead, who start going after them when they stumble across it.

[ocato]

You could house-rule in new material components for certain spells. So that a Sorcerer could do okay scavenging mushrooms or something for spells, then make the good stuff significantly harder to acquire. That way you aren't making the caster a wasted choice or over powered by comparison. If his survival check or knowledge check or whatever doesn't turn up the right kind of bird egg, then he's not casting color spray today. Then make a few spells pretty easy to cast (no material or like, grass) so that his options are limited but not completely save or lose for life. It'll require some work, but it offers a new level of scrounging/balance to your unique campaign.

[nolifeking]

If you tell your players what the campaign will be like before they make characters you might consider banning the warlock. Eventually he would be balanced, but in the beginning he would be insane.

[Citizen Joe]

First of all, casters would not have been given the option of exile. Thus, you're looking at fighting types and skill monkeys. If someone DOES try to make a caster or have some sort of supernatural ability, let them, and then put a bullet in their head and shove their corpse into the sea. As to the rest, throw them into a life boat with a certain amount of supplies, probably a cask of ale and a sack of jerky, some rope, some cloth and a couple oars. Keep them bound while aboard the lifeboat. Make it clear that they won't last long in the open sea without a real ship. Then blow a small hole in the bottom of their lifeboat (so it starts to sink) and then fling a dagger into the deck so they can cut themselves free and row to shore before sinking. Make sure you point out the shark fins nearby and the bloodied water of the sorcerer that thought he could get away with it.

[Kizara]

Be aware that druid is insta-win here. Monk and barbarian do well too, but druid just wins.

Let's take a really powerful class, put it squarely in its element and give everyone else a bit of a hard time.

Druid wins.

Cleric and Sorc with eschew material comes in second, with barbarian and monk a close third.

[Rama_Lei]

A club can be fashioned from pretty much anything and that covers proficiency for most melee classes.

[Neon Knight]

First of all, casters would not have been given the option of exile. Thus, you're looking at fighting types and skill monkeys. If someone DOES try to make a caster or have some sort of supernatural ability, let them, and then put a bullet in their head and shove their corpse into the sea. As to the rest, throw them into a life boat with a certain amount of supplies, probably a cask of ale and a sack of jerky, some rope, some cloth and a couple oars. Keep them bound while aboard the lifeboat. Make it clear that they won't last long in the open sea without a real ship. Then blow a small hole in the bottom of their lifeboat (so it starts to sink) and then fling a dagger into the deck so they can cut themselves free and row to shore before sinking. Make sure you point out the shark fins nearby and the bloodied water of the sorcerer that thought he could get away with it.

Well, thank you sir. I was afraid no one could magically read my mind and determine that I was lying when I said the judges were fair and basically humane, and in reality they are evil sons of a *****.

I was also afraid no one would dictate details of my homebrew setting to me, like whether spell casters are given the option of exile or not. I must applaud both your keen insight into my inner thoughts and your ability to see through my elaborate falsehoods.
/SARCASM, OFF.

Be aware that druid is insta-win here. Monk and barbarian do well too, but druid just wins.

Let's take a really powerful class, put it squarely in its element and give everyone else a bit of a hard time.

Druid wins.

Cleric and Sorc with eschew material comes in second, with barbarian and monk a close third.

I am aware of this. That is why I made this post, to see how much resources I should grant them so that equipment based classes did not lag behind.

Maybe I should award resources based on class and build.

A club can be fashioned from pretty much anything and that covers proficiency for most melee classes.

Who are you, and why do you have Vorpal Tribble's avatar and sig?

[Jack_Simth]

First of all, casters would not have been given the option of exile. Thus, you're looking at fighting types and skill monkeys. If someone DOES try to make a caster or have some sort of supernatural ability, let them, and then put a bullet in their head and shove their corpse into the sea. As to the rest, throw them into a life boat with a certain amount of supplies, probably a cask of ale and a sack of jerky, some rope, some cloth and a couple oars. Keep them bound while aboard the lifeboat. Make it clear that they won't last long in the open sea without a real ship. Then blow a small hole in the bottom of their lifeboat (so it starts to sink) and then fling a dagger into the deck so they can cut themselves free and row to shore before sinking. Make sure you point out the shark fins nearby and the bloodied water of the sorcerer that thought he could get away with it.

Err.... you are planning on WARNING your players first, right? Because, well, starting out with an arbitrary death based on nothing but class choice is kinda... well... not very conducive to continued gaming?

[wadledo]

Hmmm...
add all the skills the players can think of, in reason(no Geography checks) together then multiply by somthing mod? slight of hand + intimidate + Dip + Craft + Bluff + Forgery x cha or con or dex (whichevers better)

I'm tired but I always thought that somthing like this made more sense than per class.

Maby a bonus if they play a character with 16 or higer cha? guards are guards

[Citizen Joe]

All I'm saying is that people that can use magic wouldn't be placed in a mundane prison. The situation described by Karskin would probably require the group to be political prisoners and the exile would be similar to that of Napolean's exile in Alba. This makes them more of an inconvenience to the existing government rather than convicts in the typical sense. In that case, all the classes are open and very little restriction would be placed on equipment, basically nothing that would let them get off the island.

[The_Werebear]

I would let them have full equipment. Don't actually hand it to them, but shortly inland, they find a wrecked camp or an old stash with the gear they wrote down on their character sheets beforehand. Really, it is just much easier that way. If you want to make it harder on them, then have them kill some wild animals with their bare hands and minimal spell components for the gear.

All I'm saying is that people that can use magic wouldn't be placed in a mundane prison. The situation described by Karskin would probably require the group to be political prisoners and the exile would be similar to that of Napolean's exile in Alba. This makes them more of an inconvenience to the existing government rather than convicts in the typical sense. In that case, all the classes are open and very little restriction would be placed on equipment, basically nothing that would let them get off the island.

It's not a mundane prison. It is being dumped on an island chain multiple hundreds of miles from the mainland with minimal supplies and little or no knowledge of sailing, much less anything to build a boat with. While I could see stronger measures being taken for higher level characters, at level 3, they are still not going to be strong enough to just zap themselves away.

[Zincorium]

All I'm saying is that people that can use magic wouldn't be placed in a mundane prison. The situation described by Karskin would probably require the group to be political prisoners and the exile would be similar to that of Napolean's exile in Alba. This makes them more of an inconvenience to the existing government rather than convicts in the typical sense. In that case, all the classes are open and very little restriction would be placed on equipment, basically nothing that would let them get off the island.

...

Why are you making these assumptions when they run counter to what Kasrkin has stated?



Anyway, as far as the real question goes, the locked chest full of personal gear (screened for anything that would let them escape the island) sounds perfectly reasonable and in character for the judges.

If the judges are willing to spend the resources to sail a ship specifically to an out of the way island, then adding a few crates to the cargo hold wouldn't seem to be a big deal. Attach a rope to the crate and leave the other end with the prisoners, and toss the crate off the deck as the ship is leaving and make them pull it in to shore if they want it. Prevents them from using the items on the guards.

[Jack_Simth]

All I'm saying is that people that can use magic wouldn't be placed in a mundane prison.

At 9th (where Teleport is available), sure, can't really hold a caster effectively. At 3rd? You're not getting out of Australia with just 2nd level spells. Invisibility doesn't work very well in the water, and Fly and Water Walk are 3rd level spells (and thus, not available for a minimum of two levels more). Drop the prisoners off in a rowboat, don't let anything from shore get to the ship, and the guards are fine.

The skillmonkey who took Craft(Shipbuilding), Swim, Hide, and Move Silently has a better chance of escape, honestly.

The situation described by Karskin would probably require the group to be political prisoners and the exile would be similar to that of Napolean's exile in Alba. This makes them more of an inconvenience to the existing government rather than convicts in the typical sense. In that case, all the classes are open and very little restriction would be placed on equipment, basically nothing that would let them get off the island.

Penal colonies have happened historically. Made slave labor out of convicts and put them in extremely remote areas, basically. If they escape, they have nowhere to go. If they stay, they're useful (farming, building, whatever needs to be done). If they die, oh well. Whichever way it goes, they're not being a pain to the nobles anymore.

And as Kasrkin is citing Australia as a model, well....

[Dawgas]

The skillmonkey who took Craft(Shipbuilding), Swim, Hide, and Move Silently has a better chance of escape, honestly.

I wouldn't know, but wouldn't some knowledge of geography (or whatever knowledge skill would help sailors) be somewhat useful? He might either want to go back and slaughter everyone regain his freedom or go to the mythical land of Somewhere Else... but if he doesn't know where he's going... he could land up in Somewhere Unplesant That Probably Has DEMONS

[Jack_Simth]

I wouldn't know, but wouldn't some knowledge of geography (or whatever knowledge skill would help sailors) be somewhat useful? He might either want to go back and slaughter everyone regain his freedom or go to the mythical land of Somewhere Else... but if he doesn't know where he's going... he could land up in Somewhere Unplesant That Probably Has DEMONS

Well, there's a couple of ways to do it.

Craft a ship and sail away? That's one, requires basically Craft(Shipbuilding), and (depending on the DM) one or more of: Knowelege(Geography), Survival (navigational aspects), Profession(Sailor), other stuff.

Craft a ship and board an incoming prison ship? Well, all that requires is a rowboat and a way to sneak aboard (and, you know, replace the captain...). Invisibility (twice - once for the boat, once for the rower), Spiderclimb (to get up the side of the boat), and a Hat of Disguise (to BE the captain) will do the job ... although you'll need some ranks in Bluff to do it properly.

There's a handful of others, variations on the theme.

[Behold_the_Void]

What classes are you looking at?

[Ruerl]

Well, ask yourself what sort of game you wish to run what is the enviroment on the island and what sort of people are around on the island, where they the only ones punished in such a way? And if no, are there some sort of community down there? And if yes to that, how does the community work, wich dangers are there, are gold even worth anything? -Gold can become pretty useless when food is more important than luxury after all.

On the spellcasters: You could always if you don't want a problem with them, simply ban them and say "no such thing as mages on this island" or you could simply ban the feat eschew materials if you feel it breaks the setting for your game.

Just keep it at the bare necessities and warn the players in advance that its going to be a tough game and very unlikedly the classic D&D dungoencrawl, for one I cannot imagine the prisenors actually having any gold whatsoever same for magic items, I mean, why would the people deporting them give them any such things? It would be nice and humane, and the people deporting others to a prison island are unlikedly to be either.

[FoxHush]

Hmmm why not put a collar on any spell based class that makes them have less spells being able to be cast or make only spell able to be fired in defence. Or any item thats just increases the DC.

[Kioran]

I´d houserule that Fighters get more skill points and can actually be useful. In a low-ressource campaign at low levels, skillmonkeys are kings. A Ranger or Barbarian will be hugely useful, because he can make all the important skill checks (like Survival, climb for scrounging fruit or bird´s nests, swim If you´re diving for food). Having the "mundane" classes have all the power in non-combat situation goes a long way towards ensuring everybody has something to do.
Ban druids. Seriously, I don´t see how you could balance them with the rest, their simply evil. The rest of the casters might be okay if they need to keep track of components, though letting them substitute components in some cases might be wise. Eschew Material will be powerful, but they need to take it. If they don´t know what´s it going to be, odds are no one has it. And if someone has taken it, I, as a DM, would laugh heartily and let him or her reap the benefits of his non-min/max decision.
But, I seriously advise it, do not give them full equipment. 2700 GP is a lot. Again, chances are your players are optimizing/min-maxing their equipment, and are thus probably not having the right items, but you can have crazy utility at that level already - think Ring of Sustenance, the boat Feather token or similiar. Or what some potions could do.
Apart from that - equipment worth half a village on their persons kinda ruins the mood in such a campaign anyways.......
I´d give em some daggers, maybe a spear or two, two days of food and some tools and canvas to get them going. The rest is up to them. Several low-threat animal encounters to minimalize the advantage of casters going Nova, and you´re set.

[beholder]

but why would we listen to you when you're quite clearly drunk?
put down the beer glass, mr.orc

[Neon Knight]

Hmmm why not put a collar on any spell based class that makes them have less spells being able to be cast or make only spell able to be fired in defence. Or any item thats just increases the DC.

If I hear mention of Anti Magic Fields or magic inhibiting collars 100 years from now, it will be entirely too soon. No. Just no.

What classes are you looking at?

Well, I wasn't planning on their being many, if any at all, class restrictions. I like psionics, so I was going to allow that. I also like steam punk, so I was adding a bit of Iron Kingdoms (firearms and the gun mage class to be specific.) The only thing I was really gonna say no to was scouts, but that's because I don't like their fluff. Or the class in general. (Okay, you move.... and somehow do more damage. Despite the fact that moving decreases accuracy. Yeah. Makes perfect sense.)

Forcing the tracking of material components and adding material component requirements to every type of magic and psionics could be a way to balance it, but instead of laundry lists of random components I'd use a more generic magic resource. The idea has merit, I think.

[MMad]

What does the authorities want and expect the PCs to do once they're released? The answer to that question should probably dictate what equipment they've left the group.

I'd say, like most others here, mostly tools and survival equipment. Rope, a tent, woodworking tools (if the PCs don't realize they ought to make clubs and spears you may have a problem..), perhaps farming tools. Decent clothes, backpacks, first aid stuff. Probably a bow and a quiver of arrows, for hunting, or a rifle if that'd fit your setting better (but probably disassembled if so, to make sure it's not a threat right away). Daggers all around. Oh, and food for at least a week or so.

No reason I can see to leave armor or larger weapons. Same for magic equipment (except possibly for cheap survival aids).

Personally I think survivalist scenarios are lots of fun to play, so I wouldn't ease up on the players too soon - having them run into a bunch of very low-level but suspiciously well-equiped bandits straight away would be pretty lame, imho. I'd make the players actually have to struggle for a while, scavange for food and make their own equipment and be seriously worried about the own survival even if unmolested by monsters or enemies - to have the enviroment itself be a potentially deadly enemy that must be mastered.

I also wouldn't worry about having some of the PCs underequiped and weak in the early stages of the campaign. It could make for interesting roleplay dynamics to have the group rely primarily on the one guy who happens to feel at home in the wilderness, and for the wizard to be pretty much useless, pathetic and depressed. Once the party manages to find/steal/trade some decent equipment, balance will be restored and the former balance of power would shift, either gradually or abruptly, which could also make for interesting group dynamics and roleplaying.

Of course, this assumes your players are somewhat mature teamplayers who can understand the concept of delayed gratification... If players whine about being unable to contribute, tell them to be creative and find new ways to make themselves useful, and also tell them that their underequipped state won't last forever, that this is just something they'll have to work their way through.

[Neon Knight]

What does the authorities want and expect the PCs to do once they're released? The answer to that question should probably dictate what equipment they've left the group.

The authorities expect the convicts to attempt to create a primitive settlement, based mainly on hunting and gathering rather than farming. Most of the surface of these islands is either covered in trees or water; farming isn't practical. An abundance of fish and other wildlife make hunting a better proposition.

Of course, the authorities don't expect the group to actually make it; most convict groups released devolve into fighting/murder, with the inmates turning on each other and the more aggressive wildlife finishing those who remain.

[Driderman]

Hmm. If the authorities don't expect them to necessarily survive, why give them anything at all? No point giving tools or weapons to convicted criminals after all.
I say drop 'em off with only their state-issued convict suits. That way you, as the DM, gets to decide what equipment they'll have access to.