Generating Ranged Sneaks

[SalientGreen]

What are some good ways to generate ranged sneak attacks, y'know, besides firing at an opponent who's being that you've flanked....which, of course, means you're not at range....?





oopsie!

[UserClone]

Your example doesn't work; you have to be one of the flankers. Just be a pixie, and stay invisible. All the time. FTW.

[Fax Celestis]

Other options can be found in my Guide to Spellthieves.

[SalientGreen]

Other options can be found in my Guide to Spellthieves.

I've read this guide and it inspired me to become a spellthief. I do have a couple of questions though.

1. Under the recommendation for Blink and Blindness, you say that Sneak Attacks are generated by a concealed sneaker but I can't find this rule in the PHB anywhere. Is this in an FAQ somewhere?

2. You recommend Cloud of Knives from the PHBII. This'll have to be UMDed, as it's a conjuration spell and can't be learned by a spellthief, who can only learn abjuration, divination, enchantment, illusion and transmutation, right?

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

1. Under the recommendation for Blink and Blindness, you say that Sneak Attacks are generated by a concealed sneaker but I can't find this rule in the PHB anywhere. Is this in an FAQ somewhere?

Look at the footnotes to Invisible and Blinded under combat modifiers.

The defender loses any Dexterity bonus to AC.

[Darrin]

What are some good ways to generate ranged sneak attacks, y'know, besides firing at an opponent who's being that you've flanked....which, of course, means you're not at range....?

Clarion Commander from Tome of Battle renders a target flat-footed for 10 rounds if you make a DC 20 Intimidation check. Not exactly something you do while hiding, but if the target is flat-footed anyway, why hide?

As for Cloud of Knives... would Shadow Conjuration work?

[goat]

Clarion Commander from Tome of Battle renders a target flat-footed for 10 rounds if you make a DC 20 Intimidation check. Not exactly something you do while hiding, but if the target is flat-footed anyway, why hide?

Thank god that needs a +6 BAB and other prerequisites.

Otherwise... +2 from persuasion, +3 from skill focus, +2 from 5 ranks in Bluff, +4 from being a 18 Cha face-rogue... Without any magic item bonuses, that means you could never fail by level 5.

[Amiria]

Clarion Commander from Tome of Battle renders a target flat-footed for 10 rounds if you make a DC 20 Intimidation check. Not exactly something you do while hiding, but if the target is flat-footed anyway, why hide?

The target isn't flat-footed for the 10 rounds, it just counts as flanked - which also allows for sneak attacks.

[Tach13]

Deadeye Shot from PHB II also works, but it kinda limits your attacks (you get sneak attack damage if you hold action and strike after one of your allies hit, problem is you will loose some of your attacks this way, and you have to have someone you can depend on to hit regularly). That and Sneaky Shot from Master Thrower (allows sneak attack if you succeed in a Sleight of Hand check against the opponents spot check, but again, that requires a move action so just one attack from it) allow ranged sneaks, but in limited numbers.

[Darrin]

The target isn't flat-footed for the 10 rounds, it just counts as flanked - which also allows for sneak attacks.

Yes, you're right... didn't have the book in front of me, went with a google search. The target is considered flanked for 10 rounds, so +2 to hit instead of no Dex bonus.

The other point I forgot to make is the "Perpetual Flank" effect of Clarion Commander *has no range limit*. At least, it doesn't give one in the description... bit vague about it, actually. I would assume range would include line-of-sight or some means by which your enemy can observe you making the Intimidate attempt. It also doesn't mention how it interacts with Improved Uncanny Dodge. I would guess it doesn't work on opponents that can't be flanked.

[Arkeas]

If you are throwing you could check out the Invisible Blade prestige class from Complete Warrior. Feinting as a free action, as well as int bonus to AC if unarmored. Dandy.

[AtomicKitKat]

If you are throwing you could check out the Invisible Blade prestige class from Complete Warrior. Feinting as a free action, as well as int bonus to AC if unarmored. Dandy.

Errataed to uselessness. I think it's possibly a Swift Action, which might be better. That or they dropped it to Standard. Definitely not free though.

[Jack Mann]

It's still a free action, I believe. It's just that you can only do it once a round. So, basically a swift action.

[Jasdoif]

It's still a free action, I believe. It's just that you can only do it once a round.

Yep. It's still a free action, so it doesn't consume your swift action for the round. If you have an ability that uses a swift or immediate action, you can still use it during a round that you use uncanny feint.


But I just checked the Bluff skill for feinting, and it turns out that it only works for melee attacks anyway.

[TheOOB]

It's still a free action, I believe. It's just that you can only do it once a round. So, basically a swift action.

Careful there, one of the key points of a swift action is that performing a swift actions prevents you from using any other swift actions in that round. You can still use this ability and a swift action.

[SalientGreen]

Look at the footnotes to Invisible and Blinded under combat modifiers.

Mahalo! This helps me understand it a bit better.

To recap, when an attacker has Total Concealment s/he is considered invisible. This grants a +2 to attack (melee and ranged) and the defender loses any Dexterity bonus to AC.

However, if I understand correctly, to gain a sneak from concealment the concealment must be total. Anything less is not good enough, say from a Blur spell. This is what had me confused about Fax's guide; the distinction between total and less-than-total concealment.

Is this an accurate assessment of sneaks and concealment?

[Thanatos 51-50]

If you are throwing you could check out the Invisible Blade prestige class from Complete Warrior. Feinting as a free action, as well as int bonus to AC if unarmored. Dandy.

Also, your dandy AC bonus only comes into effect if you are both unarmored and equipped with no weapons other that Daggers, Katars, and Kurukis (And I'd rule Kamas make good IB weapons, but I like kamas).

A strict(er) DM my rule that if you're even carrying a Shortbow, you don't qualify for uncanny defense.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Is this an accurate assessment of sneaks and concealment?

Yes. Less than total means that you are more difficult to hit, but the defender can still see from what direction your attack is coming and what you are attacking with.

[Cowboy_ninja]

ninja Complete adventurer.

one round of invisibility swift action. all the sneak attacks you want. i once ran a ninja who went up the two weapon fighting tree. at one point i ended up with 6 sneak attacks in one round.

[Person_Man]

1) Win Initiative.

2) Greater Manyshot feat. Now you can move and fire, and Sneak Attack will apply to every attack roll.

3) Have a friend cast Greater Invisibility on you.

4) Buy a Ring of Blinking or use a Wand of Blinking with UMD. Take the Pierce Magical Concealment feat or buy a Ghost Touch weapon so that you don't suffer the 20% miss chance.

5) Use UMD to activate a Wand of Summon Whatever. Summon a lot of monsters. Have them gang Grapple your enemy. Look for monsters with the Improve Grab ability, like a bear.

6) Armor Lock spell. 1st level spell from Complete Scoundrel.

7) Fear effects

8) Stun effects

9) Paralyze/Hold effects

10) Staggering Strike feat from Complete Adventurer: Enemies hit by Sneak Attack must Save or be Staggered for 1 round. Staggered enemies may only take a single Standard or Move action (at half speed), making it very difficult for enemies that you hit with Sneak Attack once to close in on you and hurt you.

[SalientGreen]

Excellent list! Thank you!

To get down to more mechanics details, can we generate a list of when exactly an opponent loses his Dex to AC?

• Attacker is Invisible
• Attacker has Total Concealment
• Defender is blinded
• Defender is cowering
• Defender is balancing (flat-footed)
• Defender is climbing (flat-footed), unless defender has a climb speed
• Defender is surprised (flat-footed)
• Defender is grappling
• Defender is stunned
• Defender is bound (helpless/pinned)
• Defender is sleeping (helpless/pinned)
• Defender is paralyzed (helpless/pinned)
• Defender is unconscious (helpless/pinned)

Are there others that I have missed?

[Fax Celestis]

Do note: most creatures with climb speeds are not considered flat-footed while climbing.

Also: Denied Dex is not the only way to get Sneak Attack. You can also obtain it by flanking, which is remarkably easy to do if you're willing to tough it out in the front line.

There's also the Wracking Touch spell, which adds your Sneak Attack damage to a touch attack. Since it doesn't specify that you can't use abilities powered by Sneak Attack (such as Steal Spell), you can use Wracking Touch to get Sneak Attack to get Steal Spell, then burn the stolen spell and convert it into a Wracking Touch to get another Sneak Attack. If you have the ability to add spells to an attack with a weapon (such as a Duskblade's Arcane Channeling, a Spellsword's Spell Channeling, or an Arcane Archer's Imbue, or the Smiting Spell metamagic feat), it gets even better since you can do it at range.

[SalientGreen]

Do note: most creatures with climb speeds are not considered flat-footed while climbing.

Also: Denied Dex is not the only way to get Sneak Attack. You can also obtain it by flanking, which is remarkably easy to do if you're willing to tough it out in the front line.

There's also the Wracking Touch spell, which adds your Sneak Attack damage to a touch attack. Since it doesn't specify that you can't use abilities powered by Sneak Attack (such as Steal Spell), you can use Wracking Touch to get Sneak Attack to get Steal Spell, then burn the stolen spell and convert it into a Wracking Touch to get another Sneak Attack. If you have the ability to add spells to an attack with a weapon (such as a Duskblade's Arcane Channeling, a Spellsword's Spell Channeling, or an Arcane Archer's Imbue, or the Smiting Spell metamagic feat), it gets even better since you can do it at range.

All good points.

However, flanking an opponent to get a sneak is not a viable option for ranged sneaks.... =]

Where can I find Wracking Touch?

Unrelated to your post: Can you sneak attack when using Rays? Can you sneak attack when using Wands?

[Fax Celestis]

All good points.

However, flanking an opponent to get a sneak is not a viable option for ranged sneaks.... =]

Where can I find Wracking Touch?

Unrelated to your post: Can you sneak attack when using Rays? Can you sneak attack when using Wands?

Wracking Touch is in the Spell Compendium and Complete Adventurer. Also, you can attack with any spell that has an attack roll, whether you cast it naturally, as a spell like ability, or via a wand or scroll.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Are there others that I have missed?

Failing a swim check by 5 or more or failing a swim check while swimming underwater while leave you off-balance and also deny you dex to AC.

[Jasdoif]

This may not be quite what you're looking for...but the Telling Blow feat (PHB II) allows you to add your sneak attack (or skirmish) damage when you score a critical hit, without having to meet the usual requirements for a sneak attack or skirmish.

[Darrin]

However, flanking an opponent to get a sneak is not a viable option for ranged sneaks.... =]

Not a problem for Clarion Commander. Requires a standard action, but if you can consistently hit a DC 20 with Intimidate, there's nothing they can do to prevent it.

[AtomicKitKat]

* Attacker is Invisible
Unless it has Improved Invisibility, next attack doesn't deny Dex.

* Attacker has Total Concealment
* Defender is blinded

And lacks Blindsight/Blindsense/Uncanny Dodge(?)

* Defender is balancing (flat-footed)
Unless they have 5 ranks in it, or something like that.

* Defender is climbing (flat-footed), unless defender has a climb speed
Or if they have enough ranks to perform some of the "alternative uses for skills" Climb stuff in IIRC Complete Adventurer.

* Defender is surprised (flat-footed)
Improved/Uncanny Dodge.

* Defender is grappling
Unless it has Improved Grab and chooses to take the -20(well, I think anyone can take the -20, but usually only worth it if it has the Improved Grab ability) to not be considered grappling.

* Defender is bound (helpless/pinned)
* Defender is sleeping (helpless/pinned)
* Defender is paralyzed (helpless/pinned)
* Defender is unconscious (helpless/pinned)

Note that if any of these results in Defender lying down, they get the Prone bonus to AC.

[Feralgeist]

Neraph's throw, from Planar handbook. Lets you have a free sneak attack once per enemy per encounter, regardless of how flanked they are or how dnied their dex is or if they can see you