Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern

[Finback]

So MaRo has said that in Ravnica Allegiance, five of the guilds are going to align themselves with Nicol Bolas. Who do you think will, and why?

My take:
Boros - hell no. NB is probably bringing in his Eternal army, I can't see the military police allowing it.
Selesnya - nope. Kind of antithetical to them in many ways. They also seem to be gearing up for military response.
Dimir - .. could go either way. I can see them both being anti-external forces, which could destabilise them, but I also see them as being pro-looks-like-the-winning-side.
Izzet - NOPE. Can you imagine Niv-Mizzet conceding power to a rival dragon, when he considers himself the smartest there ever was? I mean, he calls him Dracogenius.
Golgari - hard to say. I can see them aligning, because of Vraska's amnesiac allegiance to NB.
Gruul - given their relative lawlessness and lack of a strong leadership model, I can imagine Borborygmos being smacked down, and conceding to the stronger leader.
Orzhov - is there profit involved with conceding? Then yes.
Simic - probably. They're all futurist, so they'd see stuff like the Eternals and whatnot and think "how can we incorporate this?"
Azorius - if they were infiltrated at a high level of power, then yes. It's easy to conform to a bad law, if the law is being followed. They're the archetype of Lawful Stupid.
Rakdos - carnage for carnage's sake? Why not? It's the apocalypso, so everybody conga into oblivion!

That being said, I can also imagine intra-guild combat, with some characters trying to change the flow. I mean, Trostani Discordant kind of implies that there's an internal schism going on. No longer do they speak as Selesnya's voice as one.

[mythmonster2]

So MaRo has said that in Ravnica Allegiance, five of the guilds are going to align themselves with Nicol Bolas. Who do you think will, and why?

My take:
Boros - hell no. NB is probably bringing in his Eternal army, I can't see the military police allowing it.
Selesnya - nope. Kind of antithetical to them in many ways. They also seem to be gearing up for military response.
Dimir - .. could go either way. I can see them both being anti-external forces, which could destabilise them, but I also see them as being pro-looks-like-the-winning-side.
Izzet - NOPE. Can you imagine Niv-Mizzet conceding power to a rival dragon, when he considers himself the smartest there ever was? I mean, he calls him Dracogenius.
Golgari - hard to say. I can see them aligning, because of Vraska's amnesiac allegiance to NB.
Gruul - given their relative lawlessness and lack of a strong leadership model, I can imagine Borborygmos being smacked down, and conceding to the stronger leader.
Orzhov - is there profit involved with conceding? Then yes.
Simic - probably. They're all futurist, so they'd see stuff like the Eternals and whatnot and think "how can we incorporate this?"
Azorius - if they were infiltrated at a high level of power, then yes. It's easy to conform to a bad law, if the law is being followed. They're the archetype of Lawful Stupid.
Rakdos - carnage for carnage's sake? Why not? It's the apocalypso, so everybody conga into oblivion!

That being said, I can also imagine intra-guild combat, with some characters trying to change the flow. I mean, Trostani Discordant kind of implies that there's an internal schism going on. No longer do they speak as Selesnya's voice as one.

We also know that the Bolas guilds are going to be led by a planeswalker, and that two are in this set and three in the next. Golgari and Izzet are confirmed for this set, since Vraska-with-amnesia and Ral Zarek are both on Bolas's side. Out of the 5 in the next set, Azorius just had their leader killed so there's a power vacuum for Bolas to step into. For the last two guilds, in terms of color balance, we need one each of white, green, black, and red. Orzhov seems like it'd be willing to side with anyone for money, so they're pretty likely, which leaves Gruul as the last one to side with Bolas. Maybe the return of Domri Rade?

[Emmerlaus]

Nooooo! My favorite sphinx commander was killed?! THIS IS WAR! XD

[Androgeus]

Orzhov seems like it'd be willing to side with anyone for money, so they're pretty likely

Kaya is also involved in the story some how (she’s on the novel’s cover). She could be hired by Bolas/Teysa to deal with the Ghost Council.

[Ninjaman]

Unless you're only targeting Moxes a lot of these are roughly the same cost.

Which is about the only place it is used.

[Finback]

Kaya is also involved in the story some how (she’s on the novel’s cover). She could be hired by Bolas/Teysa to deal with the Ghost Council.

One of the new cards revealed today ("Thousand Year Storm") suggests that planeswalkers are appearing all over the place. (Ral set up an early-warning system when he figured out that when a planeswalker appears, it triggers a lightning strike, and used it to track down both Jace and Gideon. Perhaps that means we might even see some new planeswalkers who Bolas has in his circle, but we've not seen before.

Given that the books for next year suggest that Bolas does take over, but there's a resistance, I have to wonder if Kaya is part of said resistance. The art is her, Chandra, Gideon and Ral positioned together - but that could just be for artistic purposes, rather than Superfriends. I *am* wondering if we are going to see Garruk unleashed on Bolas, given he's pretty much building himself up as a hunter of planeswalkers.

[ImperiousLeader]

Given that the books for next year suggest that Bolas does take over, but there's a resistance, I have to wonder if Kaya is part of said resistance. The art is her, Chandra, Gideon and Ral positioned together - but that could just be for artistic purposes, rather than Superfriends. I *am* wondering if we are going to see Garruk unleashed on Bolas, given he's pretty much building himself up as a hunter of planeswalkers.

Just to clarify, Ral isn't on the novel cover, the fourth planeswalker is a new character.

[Finback]

Just to clarify, Ral isn't on the novel cover, the fourth planeswalker is a new character.

Good point. Clearly, it's a mathemagician!

[unseenmage]

With Halloween on the way, let's say one wanted some altered art Time Warp cards...

Which planeswalkers would one cast for the roles in the cult classic film with a song of the same name?

[Finback]

With Halloween on the way, let's say one wanted some altered art Time Warp cards...

Which planeswalkers would one cast for the roles in the cult classic film with a song of the same name?

Garruk as Rocky,
Liliana as Magenta
Nissa as Columbia
Jace as Frank
the Kenrith twins as Brad and Janet (more for ease of pair than anything romantically squicky)

[Tvtyrant]

Custom card I want input on. My question is basically what the power and toughness should be, I'm leaning towards 3/3 or 2/4. Part of a customer ye olde mechanic cube I'm working on with my group.

Spoiler: The Card

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Also this guy I have no idea what power and toughness should be:

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[Silfir]

Vicious Crocodile is pretty harmless. You can't put it down on turn 2 in a Limited environment unless you happened to both draft a green/blue dual land with the Island type and get it in your starting hand, so assuming it comes down on turn 3, it has one turn of being obnoxious before your opponent can drop a 3/4 and blow you out (unless you draft combat tricks, though even then you'll be trading combat tricks for creatures 1-for-1). 2/4 would make it a little stronger, but allows your opponent to put down 3/3s unhindered. The trouble is that while you could buff it up to 3/4 or even 4/4 to give it more oomph, that might make it too good against blue opponents specifically. There are probably good reasons why Islandhome was never popular.

Terror King Crocodile, on the other hand, is perhaps a little too strong as written - simply because it can choose to fight itself and survive. As long as it's around, your opponents basically don't get to play small creatures - curve into a good 3-drop and you're well on your way to aggro heaven. One way to fix that would be to either force it to fight its teammates if your opponent doesn't have any creatures, or make it a 3/3 so it turns on itself and dies if it can't find something else to fight (which, while hilarious, probably fits better in Red than Green).

I could see both of these creatures working out as written, depending on how oppressive they turn out to be compared to how powerful your cube is as a whole.

[Finback]

Custom card I want input on. My question is basically what the power and toughness should be, I'm leaning towards 3/3 or 2/4. Part of a customer ye olde mechanic cube I'm working on with my group.

Spoiler: The Card

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Also this guy I have no idea what power and toughness should be:

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First artist is Steve White, for the credit line. The reply above me notes the issues with the cards as they are.

[Tvtyrant]

Vicious Crocodile is pretty harmless. You can't put it down on turn 2 in a Limited environment unless you happened to both draft a green/blue dual land with the Island type and get it in your starting hand, so assuming it comes down on turn 3, it has one turn of being obnoxious before your opponent can drop a 3/4 and blow you out (unless you draft combat tricks, though even then you'll be trading combat tricks for creatures 1-for-1). 2/4 would make it a little stronger, but allows your opponent to put down 3/3s unhindered. The trouble is that while you could buff it up to 3/4 or even 4/4 to give it more oomph, that might make it too good against blue opponents specifically. There are probably good reasons why Islandhome was never popular.

Terror King Crocodile, on the other hand, is perhaps a little too strong as written - simply because it can choose to fight itself and survive. As long as it's around, your opponents basically don't get to play small creatures - curve into a good 3-drop and you're well on your way to aggro heaven. One way to fix that would be to either force it to fight its teammates if your opponent doesn't have any creatures, or make it a 3/3 so it turns on itself and dies if it can't find something else to fight (which, while hilarious, probably fits better in Red than Green).

I could see both of these creatures working out as written, depending on how oppressive they turn out to be compared to how powerful your cube is as a whole.

I originally had terror king as a "kill yourself" card, but a 2/2 seemed weak and a 3/3 too strong. I'll probably make it "another creature."

I really like islandhome, feels fluffy but I see why it has mechanical problems. I might just make Vicious a generic 3 CMC 3/3 with etb fight, doesn't have the same effect but is safer.

[Silfir]

One more thing perhaps: these two cards feel rather like two different versions of the same concept ("fighty crocodile"). I'd perhaps try to combine them in some way, or decide on one or the other, and use the resulting free green rare slot on something other than a fighty crocodile.

Since the theme of your cube is "ye olde mechanic", I'll point out that fighting is not particularly old-timey - it was introduced in Innistrad, which as far as Magic goes is pretty recent. Have you looked at its progenitor, Provoke?

If it was up to me, I'd assemble the following monstrosity:

Vicious Crocodile - GG

Islandhome, Provoke, Trample, Rampage 3

"Put down an Island. Come on, I dare you."

3/3

EDIT:

I originally had terror king as a "kill yourself" card, but a 2/2 seemed weak and a 3/3 too strong.

The irony is that making it a 2/3 made it far stronger than it would have been as a 3/3. Having to fight itself (or its own team) to death is a pretty substantial drawback that more or less keeps it from being played at all unless the opponent plays a creature first, which negates one of the advantages of being so cheap.

With "fight another creature" it seems well in line for a strong green rare - 2/3 for 1G with pure upside has precedent, and this one isn't pure upside.

[Tvtyrant]

One more thing perhaps: these two cards feel rather like two different versions of the same concept ("fighty crocodile"). I'd perhaps try to combine them in some way, or decide on one or the other, and use the resulting free green rare slot on something other than a fighty crocodile.

Since the theme of your cube is "ye olde mechanic", I'll point out that fighting is not particularly old-timey - it was introduced in Innistrad, which as far as Magic goes is pretty recent. Have you looked at its progenitor, Provoke?

If it was up to me, I'd assemble the following monstrosity:

Vicious Crocodile - GG

Islandhome, Provoke, Trample, Rampage 3

"Put down an Island. Come on, I dare you."

3/3

Fair points all around.

The set is a prehistoric one where a war between primordial empires (Naga, Merfolk, Bird Soldiers, Viashino, and Kraul) over a new magical spell that fell from "heaven" in the form of a scroll. It causes apocalyptic flights of dragons to appear from another world.

I didn't feel like doing dinosaurs so I was making crocs fill a similar role.

Edit: Weird that provoke predates goad by so much.

Kambet, Heart of Research
Legendary Land
T,: draw a card. Activate only if your opponent has seven hards in hand.

[Ninjaman]

Kambet, Heart of Research
Legendary Land
T,: draw a card. Activate only if your opponent has seven hards in hand.

Was this supposed to also have an ability that taps for mana? Because if it isn't then it's horrible.

[Tvtyrant]

Was this supposed to also have an ability that taps for mana? Because if it isn't then it's horrible.

Yes it was. I figured inverted library of alexandria is harder to break.

[Ninjaman]

Yes it was. I figured inverted library of alexandria is harder to break.

Library of Alexandria taps for mana.

[enderlord99]

Library of Alexandria taps for mana.

Hence why he said "yes it was"

[Tvtyrant]

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Ye olde Djinns.

[Androgeus]

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Ye olde Djinns.

I'm guessing the Genie lacks a casting cost because you're meant to put it in to play via the lamp?

Also you probably want to make the lamp's ability sorcery speed only if you want the cumulative upkeep to matter. Currently just use the Elvish Piper ability during your upkeep, then let if phase out letting you ignore the cumulative upkeep.

[Dhavaer]

What's a good number of wizards to make Wizard's Lightning reliably cheap? I'm thinking of starting new Standard with Izzet Burn, using these spells:

4x Shock
4x Lightning Strike
4x Wizard's Lightning
4x Risk Factor
4x Ionize

these creatures:

4x League Guildmage
4x Viashino Pyromancer
2x Dismissive Pyromancer
2x Goblin Electromancer

and this manabase:

4x Steam Vents
4x Sulfur Falls
10x Mountain
5x Island

with five empty slots. I'm thinking more wizards, Chart a Course, The Flame of Keld or Vance's Blasting Cannons for the extra slots. Anything super obvious I'm missing?

[Tvtyrant]

I'm guessing the Genie lacks a casting cost because you're meant to put it in to play via the lamp?

Also you probably want to make the lamp's ability sorcery speed only if you want the cumulative upkeep to matter. Currently just use the Elvish Piper ability during your upkeep, then let if phase out letting you ignore the cumulative upkeep.

Good point, thanks!

I swore the genie was 2UU when I made it, I have no idea how thst got changed.

[LaZodiac]

Who wants to get mad at someone being mediocre at sealed and terrible at the game? Cause I'm sort of that.

Kaboom, a video.

[Dhavaer]

I went 4-0 with Dimir in my prerelease, despite an appalling lack of removal. I can't point out any one thing as having been a stand out success; the guild just seems to come together fluidly.

[thorgrim29]

I went 2-1 with Boros splashing green for knight of autumn and (more importantly) Might of the masses. Little buffs and mentor go a long way on Swiftblade Vindicator, but honestly my healer's hawks did more work than my promo card.

[tgva8889]

Was 3-0 with Boros, 2-1 with Golgari. My Golgari pool was unrealistically good, I just had bad luck in my last match; my Boros deck, meanwhile, drew well and my opponents drew poorly so I punished them as hard as possible for their failure. In general, I felt like the set was pretty interesting and there's some unique play to the guilds. They feel like they balance well against one another; Golgari is really strong against Boros since you just trade for all their creatures and play enormous Undergrowth creatures but against Dimir they can potentially stop all your relevant cards, and similarly Boros can be cut off if you can't get in early attacks because your opponent has creatures that stop you but if their creatures are worse, like in Izzet or Dimir, you can punish them pretty hard with Mentor.

[ImperiousLeader]

I'll admit, I had a disappointing prerelease. First, didn't get the guild I wanted, ended up Izzet, wanted Dimir. Then, I had a frustrating pool, with barely any removal and just felt like a mess. I built a tempo-ish Jeskai deck, that relied on Legion Warboss and Quasiduplicate, which, when it came together, was pretty powerful. We only do three rounds at the midnight prerelease, and I ended up 1-2.

Izzet feels like it has a lot of potential. Even with what I'd call a subpar deck, I could get my creatures past blockers and hit like a ton of bricks. Jump-start is quite powerful. But it's also finicky and likely to backfire. Which, while it might be in flavour for Izzet, made for a frustrating night of Magic.

[tgva8889]

After playing with it more, Izzet feels explosive. You can do some really powerful things sometimes, but a lot of the time your base cards are pretty weak. If you can put the pieces together, though, you can do some pretty incredible things and win games that felt completely out of reach. The decks are hard to build, I think, and you need to be very aware of what payoffs you have to work with.