Contingency via UMD

[Curmudgeon]

Do you folks think there's anything amiss with a Rogue casting Contingency via Use Magic Device? Certainly UMD will let you cast both Contingency and the triggered spell from scrolls or whatnot. The only wrinkle is this:

The spell to be brought into effect by the contingency must be one that affects your person and be of a spell level no higher than one-third your caster level (rounded down, maximum 6th level).

The argument I got from a DM at a Con was that you need to have an actual caster level for Contingency. It seems to me that emulating having the necessary caster level to activate the scroll (or whatever) is exactly what Emulate a Class Feature is designed for. After all, the caster level itself isn't being used for anything other than properly activating the Contingency scroll.

Thoughts?

[Jack_Simth]

When using a scroll or wand, the caster level for the effect is the caster level of the item. The specification of "your" is just poor editing.

Mind you, as it was the DM saying it, he's right, even if he's wrong.

[Curmudgeon]

When using a scroll or wand, the caster level for the effect is the caster level of the item.

Well, that's a little odd. So you're saying that you must use the caster level of the Contingency scroll, divided by 3, to specify the maximum level of the triggered spell? Or that you may use that, or try to emulate a higher caster level via Emulate a Class Feature?

[illyrus]

It's the scroll's caster level, not yours. A 70th lvl wizard using a CL(caster level): 3 scroll still casts a CL 3 spell. So you might could emulate a caster lvl of 70, it just won't help you with scrolls or wands.

[Starsinger]

Well, that's a little odd. So you're saying that you must use the caster level of the Contingency scroll, divided by 3, to specify the maximum level of the triggered spell? Or that you may use that, or try to emulate a higher caster level via Emulate a Class Feature?

I don't think Emulate a Class feature does that, else you could emulate a level 20 CL to use a staff, since Staves go off their CL or the user's whichever is higher. And then you could be blasting away with full damage spells via staves at low levels with a good UMD check.

[Curmudgeon]

I don't think Emulate a Class feature does that, else you could emulate a level 20 CL to use a staff, since Staves go off their CL or the user's whichever is higher.

That's different from activating a magic item. Emulate a Class Feature wouldn't just be activating the staff, but also setting the power level. For Contingency the triggered spell already has its own power level, in its own scroll or wand. It's just the activation requirement to make the Contingency spell itself trigger that second spell that's at issue.

This is similar to the example in the book where you need to emulate having an available undead turn attempt to activate the magic chalice. It doesn't actually use an undead turning.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

It seems most reasonable to use the CL of the Contingency spell (the scroll, in this case).

[Curmudgeon]

It seems most reasonable to use the CL of the Contingency spell (the scroll, in this case).

Yeah, that's the fallback position. Still, I'd be happier if UMD would let me use a Contingency scroll at the minimum caster level (11) instead of needing an 18th level scroll for greatest effect; it's the difference between a 1,650 gp scroll and one costing 2,700 gp. Contingency is already quite expensive because of the 1,500 gp focus requirement and the cost of the scroll/staff for the triggered spell.

I'm trying to come up with a better, more cost-effective version of Contingent Energy Resistance by having Contingency (duration either 11 or 18 days) cast Energy Immunity (duration 24 hours) when needed. Two 6th level spells, used on demand or every 11/18 days, should be cheaper than buying a 6th level spell for each day of adventuring. Since most of our campaigns at high level don't waste much time on traveling, 11 days should be plenty long enough to accomplish most missions.

Rogues can do almost everything -- if they can afford the gear required.

[Ikkitosen]

It seems that having a staff crafted that casts contingency and then emulating up to the caster level you want would work, wouldn't it?

[Curmudgeon]

It seems that having a staff crafted that casts contingency and then emulating up to the caster level you want would work, wouldn't it?

No, I don't think so. That issue (boosting staff power via UMD) has been throughly thrashed on the various boards, and it's pretty conclusively not allowed by the rules since they removed the 3.0 Emulate Class Level option. You can use Emulate a Class Feature to activate something that requires having that feature, but not to set the power level higher than what the item normally uses.

[Jayabalard]

Do you folks think there's anything amiss with a Rogue casting Contingency via Use Magic Device? Certainly UMD will let you cast both Contingency and the triggered spell from scrolls or whatnot.

Will it let you cast both of them at the same time? (which is required for contingency)

[OneWinged4ngel]

When using a scroll or wand, the caster level for the effect is the caster level of the item. The specification of "your" is just poor editing.

Mind you, as it was the DM saying it, he's right, even if he's wrong.

Right on both points.

[Jasdoif]

Still, I'd be happier if UMD would let me use a Contingency scroll at the minimum caster level (11) instead of needing an 18th level scroll for greatest effect; it's the difference between a 1,650 gp scroll and one costing 2,700 gp.

Well, the implication I'm seeing here is that it's "cheating".

To be specific, an allowance like this would allow an 11th level sorcerer (who has full class ranks in UMD for some reason, perhaps a dip in human paragon) to scribe a CL 11 contingency scroll, then cast it at CL 18. Even though that CL is seven levels higher then their own, and no one else had any part in the scroll's creation or its casting. Alternatively, just buy a cheap scroll, and UMD it up to an astronomical caster level.

Rogues can do almost everything -- if they can afford the gear required.

I hereby dub this the UMD motto.

Anyway, this is exactly the reason it shouldn't work like you're hoping. UMD with scrolls/wands/etc. lets you pay for spell effects with gold instead of XP (in the form of spellcasting levels). Making it offer a discount undermines the theme.

[CASTLEMIKE]

Yeah, that's the fallback position. Still, I'd be happier if UMD would let me use a Contingency scroll at the minimum caster level (11) instead of needing an 18th level scroll for greatest effect; it's the difference between a 1,650 gp scroll and one costing 2,700 gp. Contingency is already quite expensive because of the 1,500 gp focus requirement and the cost of the scroll/staff for the triggered spell.

I'm trying to come up with a better, more cost-effective version of Contingent Energy Resistance by having Contingency (duration either 11 or 18 days) cast Energy Immunity (duration 24 hours) when needed. Two 6th level spells, used on demand or every 11/18 days, should be cheaper than buying a 6th level spell for each day of adventuring. Since most of our campaigns at high level don't waste much time on traveling, 11 days should be plenty long enough to accomplish most missions.

Rogues can do almost everything -- if they can afford the gear required.

Well a house of Sivis dragon marked heir with the Unbound Scroll PRC from Dragonmarked gets Strong Words which can bump up a scroll's Caster Level according to the Dragonmark he is using. With Charged Words he can apply meta feats to a scroll like Empower and Maximize using his Dragonmark. Hopefully that helps.