Variant: Cheaper Poisons

[Gralamin]

Poison is exuberantly priced in core, so much that it is not a valid PC option, with the possible exception of Black Lotus Extract, And Dragon Bile.

This Variant is simple, change all prices on the Poison table to SP, with the exception of Black Lotus Extract. This effectively divides all prices by 10.

Table: Poisons
{table=head]Poison |Type |Initial Damage |Secondary Damage |Price
Nitharit |Contact DC 13 |0 |3d6 Con |65 gp
Sassone leaf residue |Contact DC 16 |2d12 hp |1d6 Con |30 gp
Malyss root paste |Contact DC 16 |1 Dex |2d4 Dex |50 gp
Terinav root |Contact DC 16 |1d6 Dex |2d6 Dex |75 gp
Black lotus extract |Contact DC 20 |3d6 Con |3d6 Con |4,500 gp
Dragon bile |Contact DC 26 |3d6 Str |0 |1,500 gp
Striped toadstool |Ingested DC 11 |1 Wis |2d6 Wis + 1d4 Int |18 gp
Arsenic |Ingested DC 13 |1 Con |1d8 Con |12 gp
Id moss |Ingested DC 14 |1d4 Int |2d6 Int |12.5 gp
Oil of taggit |Ingested DC 15 |0 |Unconsciousness |9 gp
Lich dust |Ingested DC 17 |2d6 Str |1d6 Str |25 gp
Dark reaver powder |Ingested DC 18 |2d6 Con |1d6 Con + 1d6 Str |30 gp
Ungol dust |Inhaled DC 15 |1 Cha |1d6 Cha + 1 Cha¹ |100 gp
Insanity mist |Inhaled DC 15 |1d4 Wis |2d6 Wis |150 gp
Burnt othur fumes |Inhaled DC 18 |1 Con¹ |3d6 Con |210 gp
Black adder venom |Injury DC 11 |1d6 Con |1d6 Con |12 gp
Small centipede poison |Injury DC 11 |1d2 Dex |1d2 Dex |9 gp
Bloodroot |Injury DC 12 |0 |1d4 Con + 1d3 Wis |10 gp
Drow poison |Injury DC 13 |Unconsciousness |Unconsciousness for 2d4 hours |7.5gp
Greenblood oil |Injury DC 13 |1 Con |1d2 Con |10 gp
Blue whinnis |Injury DC 14 |1 Con |Unconsciousness |12 gp
Medium spider venom |Injury DC 14 |1d4 Str |1d4 Str |15 gp
Shadow essence |Injury DC 17 |1 Str¹ |2d6 Str |25 gp
Wyvern poison |Injury DC 17 |2d6 Con |2d6 Con |300 gp
Large scorpion venom |Injury DC 18 |1d6 Str |1d6 Str |20 gp
Giant wasp poison |Injury DC 18 |1d6 Dex |1d6 Dex |21 gp
Deathblade |Injury DC 20 |1d6 Con |2d6 Con |180 gp
Purple worm poison |Injury DC 24 |1d6 Str |2d6 Str |700 gp[/table]

1. Permanent drain, not temporary damage.

Comments and suggestions welcome. I'm currently thinking of arranging it so the decrease amount is relative to the DC. (EG: DC 11 = /10, DC 18 = /2, etc.)

[DracoDei]

In most normal campaigns poison isn't SUPPOSED to be a very viable option for PCs. I respect your wanting to change that and agree with you in many ways. It provides a good option for taking enemies alive.

BTW here is my take on something like kalihari native hunting poison...

Hunters Friend (AKA Mage-Bane)
Injury DC 15 (feel free to vary this)
Initial None (or maybe 1 INT if you want to make it more sure-fire for hunting)
Secondary 1d4 INT
Price 1 GP (SUPPOSED to be dirt cheap... it is for hunting for FOOD... 10 GP if you have the initial damage maybe...)

Note that animals have Intellegences of 2 or sometimes 1 and thus will be usually rendered unconcious by this... tracking a fleeing animal for the one minute it takes the effect to kick should be no problem for any hunter worth his salt, but it keeps it from being TOO effective in combat.

[Gralamin]

Good point. I am sure my current table is broken, I just need to figure out a better way to price them.

[Zeta Kai]

I'm wary of changing poison prices. That usually just encourages players to act dishonorably & commit evil acts, which some players are overly-inclined to do anyway.

On a side note, I really like the Hunter's Friend poison. It is a nicely-designed tool that fills a convenient niche in the game. Maximum Yoinkage.

[Joltz]

I'm wary of changing poison prices. That usually just encourages players to act dishonorably & commit evil acts, which some players are overly-inclined to do anyway.

I'd say it just makes it easier and more effective to use poison because players can use more doses and/or stronger poison. If the players plan to stab someone in the back, they're going to do it with or without poison though.

I never thought that poisons were particularly overpriced actually. The thought had crossed my mind, but the prices are within reason for the most part. I think that if you're going to tweak the prices it should be fairly minor (1/2 at most?)

I'm more concerned with the set DCs making poison too easy to resist than high price making poison too expensive. I've thought about rules for making more concentrated poisons and possibly having extra effects from using multiple doses of poison and/or different poisons at the the same time. I haven't come up with anything though. Probably because I'm not especially knowledgeable when it comes to rl poison.


Note: oh yeah, I like that Hunter's Friend poison too.

[Logic]

The poisons that could only conceivably be obtained by adventurers (purple worm poison for example) should be the most expensive. Harder to obtain should mean a greater demand for it. The ones that are from plants common to the reagion should be dirt cheap. Finding the ingrediants would be simple, and processing it into the poison itself would be unlikely to be terribly difficult.

Besides, there are plenty of more mundane things that the players could get ahold of that are poisonous. Potato plant anyone?

[ShiningTed]

I don't know what Nitharit is, but 65gp for something that does 3d6 Con damage sounds a bit cheap to me.

Maybe a balance would be in how it is handled? Make the characters check frequently that they are not exposing themselves to it? Roll to see if they broke the vials etc every time they are on the end of a bludgeoning attack?

[Dryad]

I was thinking.. (Because I've got a character that relies on his/her/it's (Gender not determined.) Craft Poison skill) whether it should be possible to kick the DC up a bit. After all; the stronger, and more volatile, the poison, the harder it is to beat. So for a Huge Monstrous Centipede, no commoner could resist it, and it's instant paralysis. It should be doable to increase the DC by crafting, with extracting and such, while not making the poison more dangerous, or stronger. Just harder to resist.

All in all: I like the list. A lot. Poisons are hard to come by, unless you harvest your own, and Nature is full of poisonous stuff, which makes harvesting a normal option, bút crafting costs are per rules. I why on earth would I pay 20 gold pieces for one single Lilly of the Valley?

[Joltz]

I don't know what Nitharit is, but 65gp for something that does 3d6 Con damage sounds a bit cheap to me.

Maybe a balance would be in how it is handled? Make the characters check frequently that they are not exposing themselves to it? Roll to see if they broke the vials etc every time they are on the end of a bludgeoning attack?

I can understand having checks to see if a character has exposed themselves to contact poisons more often, but I always thought that using injury and ingested poisons was more dangerous than it should be.

Injury poison has to go in an injury, right? I haven't cut myself in forever (1 year+), and I use knives in cooking a lot. Does it spontaneously become a contact poison for a second if you get a little on you? Is it assumed you slip up while applying it and make a small cut? Either way I find it hard to believe.

Ingested poison is both more, and less believable. I can understand that maybe a character gets a little on their fingers if they fumble while applying it, but it wouldn't instantly take effect. Poisoning yourself with ingested poison wouldn't happen till next time you ate.

Ok. I went and thought on this for a while, and this is what I came up with.

Alternate Dangers of Poison

Spoiler

Show

Contact Posions
As standard rules. You have a 5% chance of poisoning yourself when applying the poison, and if you roll a natural 1 when attacking with a weapon coated in contact poison, you're affected by the poison.

Injury Posion
I can understand that if you're being hasty, you might cut yourself while applying poison... Let's go with this.

If you're in a situation where you may "take 10" you don't risk poisoning yourself when applying injury poison. If you can't take 10, there's a 5% chance that you're exposed to the poison. You don't automatically poison yourself on a roll of natural 1, but if your DM uses a botch system and you hit yourself with a poisoned weapon, naturally you're affected.

Ingested Poison
I think it's reasonable for a character to have a chance of getting a little ingested poison on themselves and later being affected by it. Maybe it got from their fingers to their food, maybe they licked their finger for something, whatever.

When applying ingested poison, there's a 5% chance of contaminating yourself. Next time you eat anything, or at a random time in the near future (1d4 hours) you're affected by that poison. A character may wash their hands as a precaution against poisoning themselves (although washing up may not always be convenient).

Inhaled Poison
This one also seems fairly dangerous. I think something close to the basic rules covers it well.

When removing a device used to deliver inhaled poison from wherever you're storing it, you have to make a dexterity check (DC 2) or crush the fragile container. After this there's no additional danger of poisoning yourself. Naturally, if you fumble and drop it or accidentally end up in the poison's area after you throw it you're still affected.

Wow, that was kinda random of me. Oh well XD.

Also, @ Dryad
The Complete Scoundrel has two feats (Poison Master and Poison Expert) that increase poison DCs and damage. There's also a spell somewhere that increases the DC of one poison by 2 temporarily but I can't seem to find it. That's all the stuff I know of that's been published officially on improving poisons.