Stalwart Sorceror? Armored Mage?

[Deth Muncher]

These seem a bit munchkiny, IMHO. For example, I have a character in an upcoming campaign who's a Stalwart Sorceror, has Mart. Wep. Prof - Heavy Flail and Wep Foc.-Heavy Flail. Also, I've got one of those nice reserve feats "Fiery Burst", and took my only Lv.3 spell (I'm level 7, and due to the restriction of SS, I can only have 1 Lv.3 spell ATM) as Fireball. Now. Next level, were I to take a level of fighter and gain the Armored Mage ability (meaning I can wear armor and not take ASF if I'm in light armor and light shieilds)....isn't this just a little broken? I mean, slap on the Still Spell feat (which I took), and Shabam! I'm tempted to go buy Munchkin the game and just have it with me....

[Ramza00]

This is munchinky?

[RTGoodman]

But read the last line of "Armored Mage":

"This benefit applies only to spells of a level equal to or lower than your fighter class level + 1."

So yeah, you ignore ASF, but only for lower level spells unless you take a lot of levels in Fighter. If I'm reading this correctly, you'd never ignore spell failure for any spells above like 6th or 7th level, since you'd need 14 or more level in your spellcasting class to cast 7th level spells, which would require a Fighter level of 6 minumum.

I'm not sure if you mean "Battle Sorcerer" (from Unearthed Arcana) when you say "Stalwart Sorcerer," but your best option may be to go Battle Sorcerer, and then pick the feat that lets you use heavier armor without spell failure (it's in Complete Arcane, I think).

[Starsinger]

This is munchinky?

I just... I don't see it.

[Mr Pants]

Doesn't seem very munchkin-y to me. 3d6 at will for a 7th level character is pretty balanced. Munchkin would be taking that feat that allows you to cast in armor 1 category heavier than what you normally could. Come to think of it that feat isn't very munchkin either.

[RoboticSheeple]

It's about as broken as a warlock

[Deth Muncher]

Actually, I do in fact mean Stalwart Sorceror - Its in Complete Mage. And actually, that thing about Armored mage was right, so that decidedly de-Munchkinizes it. Severely. I'd misread that. But yes, this other combat Sorceror thing sounds quite good as well.

[Deth Muncher]

Ok, tell me if this combo is a bit cheesy - Floating Disk, followed by Incendiary Slime, followed by a Fiery Burst. Basically, I float to safety, then ignite an area in super slick flame.

[ZeroNumerous]

You're still within that five-foot square. Tenser's doesn't float more than two feet off the ground. It's a good idea, but you'd die in the process. A better one would be Incendiary Slime followed by an Orb of Fire, Lesser. And even then, it's only good until you break level 8.

[RTGoodman]

Actually, I do in fact mean Stalwart Sorceror - Its in Complete Mage. And actually, that thing about Armored mage was right, so that decidedly de-Munchkinizes it. Severely. I'd misread that. But yes, this other combat Sorceror thing sounds quite good as well.

Oh, sorry - I'd never heard of Stalwart Sorcerer (even though I own Complete Mage ). Anyway, Battle Sorcerer gives you the same penalty as Stalwart Sorcerer (plus one fewer spell per day per level), but it gives you light armor proficiency, no ASF in light armor, proficiency with one light/one-handed martial weapon, a better BAB, and a d8 HD. I think it's probably a better trade-off.

And then you combine that with the feat that lets you use heavier armor, and you can now cast spells in Mithal Full-Plate.

[RoboticSheeple]

If you want to munchkin DnD you aren't going to do damage.

[CASTLEMIKE]

Stalwart Sorcerer with the variant Battle Sorcerer probably works better with Good BAB, No ASF in Light Armor, Simple weapons plus a single hand held martial weapon, D8 for hit die before the bonus +2 hit points a level if not going into a lot of PRCs.

As a +0 LA Plane touched "Outsider" you would pick up the martial weapons proficiency.

Consider taking two flaws:

Pick up one of the sorcerer heritage feats for an extra known spell of each level.

Take the Arcane Disciple feat for something like the Fire (Reserve Feat), Spell, Travel or Prestige Summoning Domain (Technically could fulfill reserve feat if summon fire creatures) for an extra spell to cast at each level once a day based on wisdom instead of charisma.

[Fax Celestis]

Yeah. Stalwart Battle Sorceror is decidedly not munchkiny, though, because you get like seven spells over your entire career.

Okay, that's an exaggeration, but it does severely hamper your spellage. It basically makes you a second-tier combatant with a bag of magical tricks to make you better in combat.

The problem I see happen with Battle Sorcerors (Stalwart or otherwise) is that people expect to make them exactly like regular casters. They're not. Really, despite the fact that they have access to 9th level spells, they should be dependent on them about as much as a Paladin or Ranger is on theirs: that is to say, they're nice, but not necessary.

Battle Sorcerors should also prestige as quickly as possible, probably into gishlike PrCs. Abjurant Champion, Eldritch Knight, Knight Phantom, and similar are good options.

[Dr. Weasel]

Yeah, but most DMs won't allow it as you (as a Battle Sorcerer) lose nothing by taking Stalwart Sorcerer until twentieth level.

[Fax Celestis]

Yeah, but most DMs won't allow it as you (as a Battle Sorcerer) lose nothing by taking Stalwart Sorcerer until twentieth level.

Er, yes you do. Only Battle Sorceror says "minimum 1". An example: Battle Sorceror (as it is your class itself) applies first, reducing 2 spells to 1, and then Stalwart Sorceror (as a class feature) applies second, reducing spells to 0.

[Deth Muncher]

Edit: simu-post.



And, Stalwart Sorc reduces spells known to MINIMUM of one.

[Fax Celestis]

Edit: simu-post.



And, Stalwart Sorc reduces spells known to MINIMUM of one.

Then I had it backwards (and checking now, I did).

Spellcasting

A battle sorcerer can cast sorcerer spells derived from her class levels of battle sorcerer while in light armor without the normal arcane spell failure chance.

A battle sorcerer has fewer daily spell slots than a standard sorcerer. Subtract one spell per day from each spell level on Table: The Sorcerer (to a minimum of zero spells per day). For example, a 1st-level battle sorcerer may cast four 0-level spells and two 1st-level spells per day (plus bonus spells, if any).

A battle sorcerer knows fewer spells per spell level than a standard sorcerer. Subtract one spell known from each spell level on Table: Sorcerer Spells Known (to a minimum of one spell per spell level). For example, a 4th-level battle sorcerer knows five 0-level spells, two 1st-level spells, and one 2nd-level spell. When she reaches 5th level, the battle sorcerer learns one additional 1st-level spell, but doesn't learn an additional 2nd-level spell (since two minus one is one).

[Deth Muncher]

You know...I wonder if the 14 extra HP and Heavy Flail are worth losing a spell. I mean, as a Sorceror, it's your job to provide magical backup, not actually go and beat stuff right? I mean, you're right, a Stalwart Sorc is just a second rate fighter with magic buffs.

[Fax Celestis]

With d8+2 HD (effectively a d12) and 3/4 BAB in addition to full casting, a Stalwart Battle Sorceror is not exactly a slouch on the battlefield. And like I said: PrCing into particularly gishly prestige classes is somewhat easier for a BSorc, usually due to their higher BAB. For instance, a Battle Sorceror can walk into Abjurant Champion as early as 7th level without multiclassing, where a Fighter/Wizard (who loses caster levels) can't do it until Fighter 2/Wizard 6.

Also, Battle Sorceror can get into Knight Phantom or Eldritch Knight as his 8th level, with a one-level dip into a class that gives Ride as a class skill and that also give proficiency with all martial weapons.

[Deth Muncher]

Erm....Ok. Hopefully CASTLEMIKE is still around....

1. What is this Planetouched?
2. Which feats are these, exactly?

[Fax Celestis]

Erm....Ok. Hopefully CASTLEMIKE is still around....

1. What is this Planetouched?
2. Which feats are these, exactly?

Planetouched are Aasimar and Tieflings (and Chaonds and Zenythri), which are of the Outsider type for a really low LA. Outsider type grants proficiency with all martial weapons.

[Deth Muncher]

Planetouched are Aasimar and Tieflings (and Chaonds and Zenythri), which are of the Outsider type for a really low LA. Outsider type grants proficiency with all martial weapons.

Any clue as to a +0LA Planetouched?

[Fax Celestis]

Try here. May be what you're looking for.

[Solo]

These seem a bit munchkiny, IMHO. For example, I have a character in an upcoming campaign who's a Stalwart Sorceror, has Mart. Wep. Prof - Heavy Flail and Wep Foc.-Heavy Flail. Also, I've got one of those nice reserve feats "Fiery Burst", and took my only Lv.3 spell (I'm level 7, and due to the restriction of SS, I can only have 1 Lv.3 spell ATM) as Fireball. Now. Next level, were I to take a level of fighter and gain the Armored Mage ability (meaning I can wear armor and not take ASF if I'm in light armor and light shieilds)....isn't this just a little broken? I mean, slap on the Still Spell feat (which I took), and Shabam! I'm tempted to go buy Munchkin the game and just have it with me....

Sorry to break it to you, but its not munchkiny at all.

Now, a Sorcerer5/Mage of the Arcane Order7/Initiate of the Sevenfold Viel7/Archmage 1? That's a bit more munckiny

[martyboy74]

Sorry to break it to you, but its not munchkiny at all.

Now, a Sorcerer5/Mage of the Arcane Order7/Initiate of the Sevenfold Viel7/Archmage 1? That's a bit more munckiny

Mage of the Arcane Order only let's you switch out a few spells a day, not every single one you have. That is not the 'I can cast every single spell in existance' build. Although IotSV is really cheesy.

[Solo]

MotAO is for the "Oh ****, i need that spell pronto" situation that everyone runs into at some point or another.

I suppose if you wanted to churn out more cheese, Sorc6/Incantrix7/IotSV7 would fit the bill....

[Kaelik]

IotSFV=quite enough cheese by itself.

[CASTLEMIKE]

Erm....Ok. Hopefully CASTLEMIKE is still around....

1. What is this Planetouched?
2. Which feats are these, exactly?

Player's Guide to Faerun is even better than the 2004 Wizard's article Fax Celestial posted.

Planetouched are +0 LA, normally +1 LA races like Aasimar and Tiefling (Don't the others though). If it isn't an option in your game consider buying it away going up from level 3 to 4 for 4,000 experience with the LA buydown rules.

They basically keep the majority of the outsider benefits (Darkvision, resistances, spell like ability etc) but are dual natured. Mostly applicable in a planar campaign.

A planetouched human would be a native outsider who is affected by spells that effect a humanoid or an outsider. In a planar campaign you could be dismissed or banished back to your homeworld. You would be effected by outsider bane weapons. Still raised normally if die though.

Arcane Disciple feat from Complete Divine (Need religion with 4 ranks (Educated or Adaptive learning via the Human Paragon PRC)) you get to take a Domain like a Cleric with the corresponding benefits including the bonus domain spell although a sorcerer casts it based on Wisdom and it is not a known spell just a bonus domain spell (You only get one a day (Personally I would House Rule this for a Sorcerer or Favored Soul that they also "Know" the spell in addition to their normal known spells like a Heritage feat becasue of the way they cast spells (Your PC doesn't partially know or temporarily know spells)).

Heritage feats for sorcerers were introduced back in Dragon. You receive a bonus known spell in addition to your other known spells based on your dragon heritage. Check out Crystal Keep and the sorcerer feats in the free D&D 3.5 pdf.

[CASTLEMIKE]

Mage of the Arcane Order only let's you switch out a few spells a day, not every single one you have. That is not the 'I can cast every single spell in existance' build. Although IotSV is really cheesy.

MotAO lets you Call up to half your level in prorated Arcane Spells from the Spell Pool with graded access First to Third level spells at MotAO PRC-1, First to Sixth at MotAO PRC-4 and First to Ninth at MotAO-7.

Guild Mage of Waterdeep (Waterdeep City of Splendors) has slight different specials and spellpool access in comparison to MotAO from Complete Arcane or Tome and Blood. Interestingly there are many Adepts in the guild and the PRC is the primary PRC taken by Guild members.

Works great with a Ring of Theurgy from Complete Arcane (20,000 GP) which you can fill up with 3 spells (of any level you are capable of casting) before an adventure and tweak daily during an adventure.

My Home Ruled Prestige Spell Domain grants Clerics, Favored Souls, Sorcerers and Wizards the Arcane Spell Pool Calling ability of the MotAO and GWoW as the Special Domain ability. Along the idea that it just seems to make sense for a diety of magic to allow some limited arcane spellcasting to his or her clergy or devoted followers (anybody spending a feat).

[Deth Muncher]

Right, so as it turns out, I just went with a Fiendish Heritage Human Sorceror, which had its ups and downs. As I was Flying through a ransacked villiage, I was attacked by basically a 7th Level Arcane sater riding a Nazgull. The Nazgull Sneak attacked me and got me for 26 damage, and almost poisoned me, but Fiendish Heritage got me through the Fort Save. The Caster then Mage Hand shoved me down, doing 3 more damage, effectively reducing me from 44hp to 15. I Feigned Death. Really well. With the circumstance bonus, I had like a 30something. It was delicious. And then later, I got up and started Fireballing him and the dragonazgull thing. Point here? It was probbably a good thing I took regular Sorceror, because I could Fly. Although, if I wasn't Flying, I wouldn't have been Sneak Attacked....


EDIT: I don't guess you could...say...get Planetouched later on in a campaign?