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2007-09-01, 11:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2007
Far Shot and Point Blank Question
So, a pre-req for Far Shot is Point Blank Shot. I would like to think that this irregularity is actually a purposeful mechanic.
Point Blank gives +1 hit and damage within 30'
Far shot increases range increments by 1.5. Does this affect the Point Blank range incriment so that:
Far Shot-Point Blank = +1 to hit and damage within 45'
??
Thanks
Bene
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2007-09-01, 11:39 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2005
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Re: Far Shot and Point Blank Question
The reason for the pre req is because most of your shooting stuff in a game environment occurs at close range. It is practically impossible for a trained archer and sniper to not have a lot of practice at hitting things that are right in front of him. That's just the nature of the beast.
This translates directly to real life ranged weapons. You practice at 50ft before you practice at 100ft.Last edited by Corolinth; 2007-09-01 at 11:40 AM.
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2007-09-01, 11:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2006
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- Central Ohio
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Re: Far Shot and Point Blank Question
I wish it might actually be worth taking Far Shot if that is how it worked out. I like playing archers and just finished a campaign in which I played an archer from level 3 to level 7, the whole time I played I did not take Far Shot and it did not hurt me in the least. DND tends to have fights in cramped areas and you don't see very many battle fields that have more that 120 feet with out far shot you can hit every thing on the map just fine normally.
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2007-09-01, 11:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2007
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2007-09-01, 12:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
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- Helsinki, Finland
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2007-09-01, 12:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2007
Re: Far Shot and Point Blank Question
So basically no then.
I take it the same is true for feats that add range (ranged weapon mastery) +20'?
If you had far shot and ranged weapon mastery is the final range
(Base*1.5)+20
or
(Base+20)*1.5
Finally, is there an official errata or FAQ that answers the first (far shot - point blank) question.
Because, the 30' of point blank is an increment of range....
Combat Sniper modifies the sneak attack range from 30' to 60' and I was hoping far shot would work on it all......as they are all range increments used with ranged weapons.
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2007-09-01, 03:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2006
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- Utah
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Re: Far Shot and Point Blank Question
You can call me Draz.
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I have a number of ongoing projects that I manically jump between to spend my free time ... so don't be surprised when I post a lot about something for a few days, then burn out and abandon it.
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2007-09-01, 05:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2005
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- By a Park
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Re: Far Shot and Point Blank Question
It's even better. For thrown weapons, Far Shot doubles the range increment as opposed to increasing it by 50%. It's pretty much a requirement for a throwing build.
Hm. Not sure about that one.
Because, the 30' of point blank is an increment of range....
And it's not really an increment of any kind anyways, as "increment" refers to a fixed value that can be added to another value many times over. This 30 ft. is applied exactly once. It does not add over and over. </dictionary police>Last edited by Shhalahr Windrider; 2007-09-01 at 05:29 PM.
The Future just ain’t what it used to be.
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2007-09-01, 07:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2005
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- Houston, TX, USA
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Re: Far Shot and Point Blank Question
FWIW, I've changed Point Blank Shot, and, by extension, made Far Shot more useful. Point Blank Shot (and Sneak Attack, etc) is effective within half of the first range increment of a given weapon. Of course, if you increase your range increment with Far Shot, then you increase the range at which PBS (etc.) is effective.
The Cranky Gamer
Nexx's Hello
*It isn't realism, it's verisimilitude; the appearance of truth within the framework of the game.
*"I" is an English pronoun in the nominative case of first person singular. It does not indicate the actions or writings of anyone but the first person, singular.
*Tataurus, you have three halves as well as a race that doesn't breed. -UglyPanda
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2007-09-01, 07:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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2007-09-01, 07:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2007
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- Texas
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Re: Far Shot and Point Blank Question
But it completely negates all sneak attack and precision damage with throwing weapons.
What Invisible Blade? You were forced to take Far Shot, but now you can only sneak attack with your daggers at someone you could also 5ft and full attack anyway? Tough luck. Everyone knows you can't sneak attack with a thrown weapon.
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2007-09-01, 08:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2006
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- Utah
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Re: Far Shot and Point Blank Question
You can call me Draz.
Trophies:
Spoiler
Also of note:
- Winning Entry of Gestalt Build Challenge IV
- 3rd Place in Iron Chef XI (Blade Bravo)
- Judge of Iron Chef XXIII (Divine Champion)
I have a number of ongoing projects that I manically jump between to spend my free time ... so don't be surprised when I post a lot about something for a few days, then burn out and abandon it.
... yes, I need to be tested for ADHD.
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2007-09-01, 09:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2007
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- Texas
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Re: Far Shot and Point Blank Question
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2007-09-01, 10:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2006
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- Central Ohio
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Re: Far Shot and Point Blank Question
What are you talking about pathetic Ranges. The ranges on the bows are completely unrealistic you can hardly call something that does not even work in the least how it should unrealistic. I've played a few archers and Far Shot rarely ever comes in to play you almost never have an enemy that is more that 100 feet away from you let alone a 150 and in the few cases that it did the small penalty is minor compare to how far you are firing. Your just better off taking another feat than far shot, something that will actually have an effect on how well you fight.
Last edited by StickMan; 2007-09-01 at 10:01 PM.
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2007-09-01, 11:10 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2007
Re: Far Shot and Point Blank Question
He's talking about the pathetic ranges of thrown weapons. You know, 10 feet for daggers and throwing axes. I once had a dwarven fighter who took PBS just so he could get Far Shot. I wanted to be able to use a throwing axe to hit a goblin whom I couldn't just walk up to and thwack.
Last edited by DSCrankshaw; 2007-09-01 at 11:12 PM.
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2007-09-02, 12:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2005
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- Houston, TX, USA
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Re: Far Shot and Point Blank Question
It also eliminates sneak attacking with spells, since most of them don't have range increments, just ranges.
And, cool as it is, thrown weapons are generally not the most effective weapons in the world unless you put a lot of practice into them. If I had someone who took a PrC that specialized in thrown weapons, I'd stick in a class ability that eased up on the restrictions.Last edited by MrNexx; 2007-09-02 at 12:33 AM.
The Cranky Gamer
Nexx's Hello
*It isn't realism, it's verisimilitude; the appearance of truth within the framework of the game.
*"I" is an English pronoun in the nominative case of first person singular. It does not indicate the actions or writings of anyone but the first person, singular.
*Tataurus, you have three halves as well as a race that doesn't breed. -UglyPanda
*LVDO ERGO SVM
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2007-09-02, 09:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2005
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- By a Park
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Re: Far Shot and Point Blank Question
Uh, with Far Shot, the range increment for your daggers would be 20 ft. That would allow sneak attacks within 10 ft.
Anyway, I did mention it was a verisimilitude issue. There may be some game play issues. Still, doesn't make much sense to say, "He's so far away, I have a 30% decrease in my accuracy to hit him at all, but whach me hit his kidneys spot on!"The Future just ain’t what it used to be.
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2007-09-02, 10:29 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Far Shot and Point Blank Question
Right, and at that range you could five foot step and full attack without throwing your daggers, a superior choice most of the time. Arguably you could five foot step to 10ft and be able to throw your daggers. But there is little point in throwing weapons from 10ft away. And there is a class with sneak attack that is built with exactly a 30ft throw in mind.
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2007-09-02, 11:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2005
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Re: Far Shot and Point Blank Question
If your character is built with ranged combat in mind, enganging a fellow in melee is rarely the superior choice.
But there is little point in throwing weapons from 10ft away.
And there is a class with sneak attack that is built with exactly a 30ft throw in mind.The Future just ain’t what it used to be.
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2007-09-02, 02:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2007
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- Texas
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Re: Far Shot and Point Blank Question
Except that the specific class I am referring to is designed to be able to use ranged throwing and melee attacks. Rather then being "built with ranged in mind." As prereqs he is forced to take several feats which end up giving him the option to begin with a ranged, full attack, sneak attack at 30ft, and then close for melee combat (or let them close.) He is meant to fight in melee, as well.
And yet, Sneak Attack specifically extends to 30ft. Because within thirty feet it is quite possible for a skilled thrower to hit a vital area. And secondly, by this logic throwing weapons without the Far shot feat would only get SA at 5ft, melee range. If they did take the Far Shot feat then they are not taking any penalties at 20ft, so why can't they SA there?
I hope you are not seriously suggesting that you should adapt your character concepts/combat tactics/expectations of how the rules should work to fit a houserule. The house rule could just as easily be: half for ranged weapons except throwing weapons that SA on their entire range increment (or even better, that SA under 30ft.) It is a Houserule. Make it what makes sense from a balance/how things should work perspective. Don't just treat a houserule as set in stone.
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2007-09-02, 03:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2005
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- Houston, TX, USA
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Re: Far Shot and Point Blank Question
I think he's saying that, if you do use the houserule, you have to make a couple changes to other aspects of the game.
The fact is, most throwing weapons are lousy weapons. Even spears aren't all that hot unless you add a machine (atlatl) to improve them. They suffer from accuracy problems and they don't do a heck of a lot of damage. Now, sure, you can throw a dart (shuriken) very accurately a reasonable distance during a dart game. However, even then, regulation distance is only 7', 9.25"... or about 5', when you account for the length of a person's arm. Knives go a bit further (some googling and wiki'ing didn't turn up tournament distances; wiki put a maximum range as 100 feet, or about 5 range increments in D&D terms, if you have far shot... which is the maximum for a thrown weapon).
But that's hitting a stationary target, not a living body that will be moving, and possibly trying to defend itself. Like I said, I prefer to introduce a little more verisimilitude into the game, and make changes to the one or two PrCs that focus on knives, rather than dealing with the break in the suspension of disbelief.The Cranky Gamer
Nexx's Hello
*It isn't realism, it's verisimilitude; the appearance of truth within the framework of the game.
*"I" is an English pronoun in the nominative case of first person singular. It does not indicate the actions or writings of anyone but the first person, singular.
*Tataurus, you have three halves as well as a race that doesn't breed. -UglyPanda
*LVDO ERGO SVM
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2007-09-02, 08:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2005
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- By a Park
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Re: Far Shot and Point Blank Question
Possible and likely are two very different concepts. See Nexx's post above for some good reasons the two may not overlap in this case.
And secondly, by this logic throwing weapons without the Far shot feat would only get SA at 5ft, melee range.
If they did take the Far Shot feat then they are not taking any penalties at 20ft, so why can't they SA there?
I hope you are not seriously suggesting that you should adapt your character concepts/combat tactics/expectations of how the rules should work to fit a houserule.
Likewise, this house rule could affect classes that, for whatever reason, are dependent on being able to sneak attack within 30 ft. with a ranged weapon. So, to prevent crippling that class, you can make a few alterations to it. You can maybe start with a new class ability that makes it possible for members of the class to sneak attack within 30 ft., despite the thrown weapon's range increment.
The house rule could just as easily be: half for ranged weapons except throwing weapons that SA on their entire range increment (or even better, that SA under 30ft.)
It is a Houserule. Make it what makes sense from a balance/how things should work perspective.
Don't just treat a houserule as set in stone.Last edited by Shhalahr Windrider; 2007-09-02 at 08:08 PM.
The Future just ain’t what it used to be.
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2007-09-09, 10:45 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2005
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- Singapore
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Re: Far Shot and Point Blank Question
What's the purpose for Far Shot?
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