A Heretofore Unknown, Ridiculously Good Feat

[Fax Celestis]

Let me bring Customize Domain to the table.

Particularly the part with the Magic domain, where it says, "Any kind of spell, but you must select a spell one level lower than normal."

Ridiculously. Ridiculously. Good.

Couple with Domain Spontaneity for extra doom.

[Citizen Joe]

Umm.. I don't get it.

Even with magic domain you can only swap out for spells you know... and in that case it would cast as though it were a level higher. I don't think you're reading it right.

[Starsinger]

That's awfully nice... Especially for a spontaneous cleric.

[Fax Celestis]

Umm.. I don't get it.

Even with magic domain you can only swap out for spells you know... and in that case it would cast as though it were a level higher. I don't think you're reading it right.

Four words: One. Level. Wizard. Dip. You have access to the entire wizard spell list, and as such you can replace any of your domain spells with wizard spells.

In fact, a representation:

Wizard 5/Cleric 5/Mystic Theurge 10. Take the Magic domain and any other domain you please (let's say Travel for this argument).

Your feats: Alternative Source Spell lets you use any of your arcane slots as divine, and divine slots as arcane. You basically can prepare any spell you know however you like.

Now, take Customize Domain. You can replace any spell off the Magic domain list with any Sor/Wiz spell you like, or can replace those on Travel for those that are related to movement or speed (such as Celerity).

Next, Domain Spontaneity. You can expend a turn undead to convert any spell you have prepared into a domain spell. Due to Alternative Source Spell, you can treat your arcane spells as divine slots, meaning you can even spontaneously convert them.

[Fawsto]

The Cleric now has access to some of the msot devastating offensive spells.

Fireball and Desintegrate FTW!

[Jasdoif]

The Cleric now has access to some of the msot devastating offensive spells.

Fireball and Desintegrate FTW!

I was thinking more like celerity, but yeah.

[Starsinger]

Four words: One. Level. Wizard. Dip.

Oh I must have misread that.. I took it to mean any spell list you as a player had access to. Yes, this way makes more sense, but is less fantastic.

[Fax Celestis]

Other fun things you can do with Alternative Source Spell: mix Shadowcaster mysteries and divine spell slots.

[ZeroNumerous]

Fax. One level Archivist dip. One level dip gives you access to all Sorc/Wiz spells, Paladin spells, Ranger spells, Spirit Shaman spells, Assassin spells, and you could probably argue Wu Jen in there too.

[Fax Celestis]

Fax. One level Archivist dip. One level dip gives you access to all Sorc/Wiz spells, Paladin spells, Ranger spells, Spirit Shaman spells, Assassin spells, and you could probably argue Wu Jen in there too.

Archivist doesn't give you Sor/Wiz, but it'll give you any divine (Paladin, Ranger, Spirit Shaman, Shugenja). One in Wizard will give you most others.

[Hadrian_Emrys]

So now Batman just got upped to 3/4s BAB, d8 hit die, his utility belt is has enough extra-dimensional space to hold books containing every spell that ever was... in binary, he can turn and access domains, AND now has the option to simply wade in that beat the hell out of things when bored of one shotting encounters.

[Ceres]

Muahahaha! Pure evil!

Question: Could you use DMM on these spells? That would be insane!

[Fax Celestis]

So now Batman just got upped to 3/4s BAB, d8 hit die, his utility belt is has enough extra-dimensional space to hold books containing every spell that ever was... in binary, he can turn and access domains, AND now has the option to simply wade in that beat the hell out of things when bored of one shotting encounters.

Like I said: "Ridiculously Good."

Muahahaha! Pure evil!

Question: Could you use DMM on these spells? That would be insane!

...why not? They're spells you cast as divine spells.

[Hannes]

This is why any splatbooks with anything that tweaks divine magic should be BANNED AND BURNED ON SIGHT! I mean... Spend turn attempts for metamagic? Think about a campaign having a cleric and no undead. THE HORROR, THE HORROOOOR!

[Ceres]

...why not? They're spells you cast as divine spells.

I hearby encourage everyone to find new, stronger DMMs with the use of this expanded arsenal

[Citizen Joe]

Even then its not all that great. You get a fixed number of domain slots and you're just replacing the domain spell in each slot (ONCE). Each of those has to be one level lower... thus level 1 domain slot is actually a level 0 spell. The level 9 domain slot would be an 8th level spell.

I suppose it is interesting and kinda good, but ridiculously good?

[Fax Celestis]

Even then its not all that great. You get a fixed number of domain slots and you're just replacing the domain spell in each slot (ONCE). Each of those has to be one level lower... thus level 1 domain slot is actually a level 0 spell. The level 9 domain slot would be an 8th level spell.

I suppose it is interesting and kinda good, but ridiculously good?

Did you miss Domain Spontaneity? That feat makes it so I can convert any spell I have prepared into a domain spell, at the slight cost of expending a turn attempt. That's what really makes it ridiculously good.

Also note that the "one level lower" only applies to the Magic domain. Other, more restricted domains (like Travel, which gets access to celerity and temporal stasis, among other things) do not have that requirement.

[Draz74]

Now, take Customize Domain. You can replace any spell off the Magic domain list with any Sor/Wiz spell you like, or can replace those on Travel for those that are related to movement or speed (such as Celerity).

If your DM reads the feat very strictly (and I don't blame him), Celerity probably doesn't qualify.

Luck looks to be a more amazing domain for this than Travel. Any spell that adds a bonus on a d20 roll? That's a lot of spells to choose from.

[Gralamin]

If your DM reads the feat very strictly (and I don't blame him), Celerity probably doesn't qualify.

Luck looks to be a more amazing domain for this than Travel. Any spell that adds a bonus on a d20 roll? That's a lot of spells to choose from.

I Would say Timestop would count under travel, and I would just grab Celerity with the magic domain.

[Fax Celestis]

OMG AN IDEA. Does this work?

Couple Battle Blessing from CCham with Alternative Spell Source. Be a Sorceror/Paladin. Prepare arcane spells in your paladin slots, then cast them as swift actions for free because they're technically paladin spells at that point.

[Macrovore]

I don't think so, fax. It says that you can prepare the spells as "divine spells," not "paladin spells." Subtle distinction, but even though paladin spells are technically divine, IIRC, the Battle Blessing feat pnly works for paladin spells.

'sides, pally casting sucks. That's why, since you would already have CCha to be thinking about using that feat, you would instead take the bonus feats.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

I don't think so, fax. It says that you can prepare the spells as "divine spells," not "paladin spells." Subtle distinction, but even though paladin spells are technically divine, IIRC, the Battle Blessing feat pnly works for paladin spells.

Exactly. It lets a sorcerer/paladin cast, say, fireball from his or her 3rd level sorcerer spell slot as a divine spell or cure light wounds from his or her 1st level paladin slot as an arcane spell. The spell doesn't actually change class lists.

Alternative Spell Source does very little worthwhile on its own. It requires additional access to feats or class abilities that specifically target arcane or divine spells. The only time the arcane/divine distinction really raises its head in core is where scrolls are concerned. The only other thing I can think of that you can use the feat for without additional investment is ignore an enemy Ur-Priest's Divine Spell Resistance (which absolutely sucks for the ur-priest's level anyways).

[Ikkitosen]

Just a random thought, but if you can prepare your arcane spells as divine are they still subject to ASF?

[Zincorium]

Just a random thought, but if you can prepare your arcane spells as divine are they still subject to ASF?

It isn't really a matter of preparation, it's one of casting. Casting any sort of spell as divine removes the possibility of ASF, since that's specifically tied to arcane casting.

[Behold_the_Void]

That's really dangerous. Clerics still don't get Timestop though, which is one of the major components in the Celerity I win combo.

[excrtd]

Well they can. Since they could take the time domain that gives time stop and some other nice stuff such as foresight.

[RiOrius]

So now Batman just got upped to 3/4s BAB, d8 hit die, his utility belt is has enough extra-dimensional space to hold books containing every spell that ever was... in binary, he can turn and access domains, AND now has the option to simply wade in that beat the hell out of things when bored of one shotting encounters.

Not quite--Batman's main strength is his versatility. With this feat, you get to replace each standard domain spell with any single spell that fits the requirement (and the spell you choose can't be changed). Thus, the cleric only gets one Wizard spell of each level--more versatile than a standard cleric, of course, but not nearly as versatile as Batman.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

Just a random thought, but if you can prepare your arcane spells as divine are they still subject to ASF?

D'oh, I forgot about that. Okay, so two things. And the armor thing is a lot nicer than the scroll thing.

Okay, it seems to me that there are generally more benefits to casting a spell as a divine spell. Don't have to worry about ASF, a greater number of feats that affect them, and so on. Seems pretty juicy for a primarily arcane caster.

[martyboy74]

That's really dangerous. Clerics still don't get Timestop though, which is one of the major components in the Celerity I win combo.

You don't even need Domain Customization for that. Take a look at the trickery domain.

[brian c]

You don't even need Domain Customization for that. Take a look at the trickery domain.

Did you use Customize Domain to add "Raise Dead Thread" to your spell list? :P

But since we're here, and since it's a cool trick I didn't see when it was first brought up:

Archivist doesn't give you Sor/Wiz, but it'll give you any divine (Paladin, Ranger, Spirit Shaman, Shugenja). One in Wizard will give you most others.

So... besides Divine Metamagic, couldn't you have all spells just by taking Wizard/Archivist/Mystic Theurge and then using this trick?