New 4th Ed Article: Elves

[Dizlag]

A new Design and Development Article: Elves is up on Wizard's site now. It's a nice write-up, but I've got a question. What are the Eladrin? Is it a sylvan race in Faerun? I know Forgotten Realms will be the new flag ship campaign setting for D&D 4th Edition, yet would the Eladrin be a core race as well because of the comparisons? Could there be sub-races listed in core rules for 4th Edition?

These were just a couple questions that popped up in my mind while reading the article.

Thanks!

Dizlag

[Green Bean]

Hmm. Interesting read. From the bit about 'easily moved to short-lived emotional extremes', I'd say that they're moving elves back to their faerie roots. Personally, I like.

[Starsinger]

A new Design and Development Article: Elves is up on Wizard's site now. It's a nice write-up, but I've got a question. What are the Eladrin? Is it a sylvan race in Faerun? I know Forgotten Realms will be the new flag ship campaign setting for D&D 4th Edition, yet would the Eladrin be a core race as well because of the comparisons? Could there be sub-races listed in core rules for 4th Edition?

These were just a couple questions that popped up in my mind while reading the article.

Thanks!

Dizlag

Eladrin are a type of Chaotic Good outsider, the Ghaele for example, is an Eladrin. Eladrin are notedly similar to elves in physical appearance.

[Flawless]

Eladrin are the chaotic good outsiders. Like demons, only good instead of evil or like angels, onlychaotic instead of lawful.

They are not FR specific. You can find them in the 3.5 MM .

[Rex Blunder]

Also, reference is made to corellan and obad-hai. I thought they were ditching the greyhawk pantheon.

[Dausuul]

A new Design and Development Article: Elves is up on Wizard's site now. It's a nice write-up, but I've got a question. What are the Eladrin? Is it a sylvan race in Faerun? I know Forgotten Realms will be the new flag ship campaign setting for D&D 4th Edition, yet would the Eladrin be a core race as well because of the comparisons? Could there be sub-races listed in core rules for 4th Edition?

These were just a couple questions that popped up in my mind while reading the article.

Thanks!

Dizlag

Hmm... well, obviously they're changing the meaning of eladrin a bit, or at least the power level (in 3E, eladrins are a type of celestial, the chaotic good equivalent of archons). Coupled with that playtest article from a week or two ago, eladrins would appear to be some sort of quasi-elvish PC race.

It's nice to see that they're moving away from the "utopian elves" of earlier editions. Those never sat well with me. Smug elder-race bastards.

[Nerd-o-rama]

You know, this whole "you must have a username to view our content" thing is getting really annoying. I suppose I will eventually, since you don't have to pay for it yet, but it just seems pointless.

On what I know of the actual article, I can tell you that the Eladrin in 3.5 are the Chaotic Good exemplar outsiders, their alignment's equivalent to Archons (Lawful Good) and Demons (Chaotic Evil). They tend toward the wild and natural, and are led by Morwel, Queen of the Faerie (who is not in fact an actual Fey). In short, they make sensible patrons for elves that actually act Chaotic Good and nature-worshippy, as opposed to the common perception of them as Lawful Sissy.

*stabbed to death by Simuninjas*

[Dizlag]

Thanks for pointing out the Eladrin are in the MM.

And yes, the Corellon and Obad-Hai reference threw me for a loop as well as they're not in the Faerun Pantheon ... or are they?

Dizlag

[TSGames]

I like Tolkien's elves a whole lot more. That aside, this sentence does not make sense:

They are inclined to impulsive behavior in preference to long deliberation, though they would say they prefer to act in the moment.

I'm not exactly sure what the author is trying to say. Elves are impulsive though they say they act in the moment? Well, ya, but why the word "though" it just doesn't make sense. Perhaps I have misunderstood acting "in the moment."

[averagejoe]

I agree with h_v about the 'easily moved to short-lived emotional extremes' bit, but at the same time I don't like the bit about, but at the same time I don't like the bit about how, 'They are inclined to impulsive behavior in preference to long deliberation, though they would say they prefer to act in the moment.' I like that they're increasingly more "feylike," but it doesn't make any sense to me that such a long lived race should want to live in the moment. The emotional extremes make sense to me because, as a long-lived race, they would have no reason to invest in long term emotions, simply because they would almost always outlive whatever they got emotionally involved in. Maybe it's just me. Still, not a big thing.

What I really liked was the, "wood elves, wild elves, or sylvan elves" part, which hopefully implies that all three will be taken to be one set of racial statistics instead of the umpteen different elf subtypes we have now.

[goat]

Because "Acting in the moment" sounds so much better than "being an impulsive fey git who refuses to think ahead".

[GimliFett]

To me the most interesting bit was about how elves prefer magic of the natural world to arcane magic. This seems to follow one of my own houserules, to some degree, anyway: Elves favored class is Druid (or Wu Jen, IMCs; player choice). Yay!

I also like the return of elves to a more fey-like society. I don't know how they'll manage that if FR is the default campaign world, though as the primary elven sub-races have become LG, IMO.

I think Eladrin may replace Half-elves, though what they're going to do to Eladrin, I dunno. Just my opinion considering we know at least one race will be dumped for 4e.

[Fax Celestis]

Corellan Larethian appears in both the Faerunian and Greyhawkian pantheons.

[GimliFett]

Corellan Larethian appears in both the Faerunian and Greyhawkian pantheons.

Yuppers. He's the Chief Elven deity. I don't mind replacing Sylvanus in FR with Obad-Hai. I like O-H way better!

[Pokemaster]

It sounds like they're ditching the 'I'm better than you'-type elves, which is a good thing as far as I'm concerned. Arrogant elves who hate all other races are getting a bit overdone.

[Green Bean]

You know, this whole "you must have a username to view our content" thing is getting really annoying. I suppose I will eventually, since you don't have to pay for it yet, but it just seems pointless.

Try clicking the 'Printer Friendly Version' button. I don't have a user name, and it worked for me.

[AslanCross]

I like Tolkien's elves a whole lot more. That aside, this sentence does not make sense:

I'm not exactly sure what the author is trying to say. Elves are impulsive though they say they act in the moment? Well, ya, but why the word "though" it just doesn't make sense. Perhaps I have misunderstood acting "in the moment."

Goat said it above. It's kinda like a rogue saying "I'm a wealth redistribution specialist" instead of "I'm a thief."

It's interesting that the Elves are now -related- to the Eladrin. I guess this makes them more otherworldly?

Also, anyone notice that it seems to be focusing more on Wood Elves than the more civilized Silver/Moon Elves?

[Larrin]

Just a stab, but i won't be surprised if elfs got themselves cut in half. Elfs (wood elfs no less according to the article) are the woodsey types that 3.5 did a less then good job of portraying them as (IMHO), Eldarin will be the Wizardly type, the high elves that live in cities and have a civilization and go for week without hugging a tree. Thus instead of trying to make elves arcane magical bow shooting feyish beings that supposedly live in the woods, but actually don't when it comes down to it, we have the elves who are bow shooting feyish beings that live in the woods and Eldarin who are arcane magical feyish beings that don't (live in trees). This will of course rub everyone the wrong way, since RA Salvatore (or insert your faovrite author/setting) never mentioned Eldarins in this aspect. I think WoTC are trying to avoid naming two 'core'(?) races "wood elf" and "high elf" by giving each a unique name.

[Iku Rex]

You know, this whole "you must have a username to view our content" thing is getting really annoying. I suppose I will eventually, since you don't have to pay for it yet, but it just seems pointless.

http://www.bugmenot.com/

[DSCrankshaw]

I think Eladrin may replace Half-elves, though what they're going to do to Eladrin, I dunno. Just my opinion considering we know at least one race will be dumped for 4e.

Half-elves were mentioned in the article on Races a while back, so I doubt they'll be disappearing. Gnomes and Half-orcs seem the most at risk.

[Hurlbut]

Try clicking the 'Printer Friendly Version' button. I don't have a user name, and it worked for me.

If you are already REGISTERED on the WOTC FORUMS, you can sign in with the same username you used on the Forums.

[GimliFett]

Half-elves were mentioned in the article on Races a while back, so I doubt they'll be disappearing. Gnomes and Half-orcs seem the most at risk.

Dump half-orcs if you must, but not my gnomes! Keep gnomes, get rid of halflings. Too much like hobbits. Too much like elves, just shorter.

Sorry. Of the small races, I'll take gnomes and goblins (even with the Charisma penalty) over halflings. I'd like to see a slightly modded goblin race as a beginning player race.

[Kurald Galain]

Cute but cliche.

[GimliFett]

Cute but cliche.

Which? Halflings? Agreed. Gnomes? Drop the freakin'-tinker-thing. In my world, gnomes are actually very similar to Romer (or gypsies if you prefer). Goblins cute? Ummm. Naw. But they can be cool!

[TSGames]

Half-elves were mentioned in the article on Races a while back, so I doubt they'll be disappearing. Gnomes and Half-orcs seem the most at risk.

[Hurlbut]

get rid of halflings. Too much like hobbits.

Um, they ARE hobbits, only renamed.

[AslanCross]

Eladrin replacing half-elves? o_o Eladrins have +5 LA, so even if they ditch the Level Adjustment thing they'd have to nerf them dramatically in power to make them a core PC race. (That's the dwarflike Bralani Eladrins. The Ghaele Eladrins are something else altogether and for some reason don't advance by character class.)

Eladrins aren't a single race with subraces like elves. It's more of a super-race (like Archon or Demon) that has many races underneath it that are very different from one another, though they share common Outsider traits and alignment. (There are tiny ones like the Courre Eladrin, dwarflike ones like the Bralani, and big winged ones too.) I don't think they're doable as a core race without being changed dramatically from what they are in 3.X.

[Sebastian]

It sounds like they're ditching the 'I'm better than you'-type elves, which is a good thing as far as I'm concerned. Arrogant elves who hate all other races are getting a bit overdone.

Yeah, while nature friendly elves are soooo original. ;)
Anyway, It is just a guess, but I think the Eladrims will cover that Better-than-you part.

[GimliFett]

Um, they ARE hobbits, only renamed.

I know, and another reason to drop them. They had that whole lawsuit thing way-back-when; with 3.0 and beyond they've tried to move them into a more kender-ish role (deny it if you will, but you deny truth!). Ugh.

[Draz74]

Also, anyone notice that it seems to be focusing more on Wood Elves than the more civilized Silver/Moon Elves?

You mean Gray Elves (to use Grayhawk or a generic setting instead of FR)?

Well, yes, they are focusing the "elves" more on the woodland side of things.

I think the "more civilized" role -- the race that is scholarly, lives in cities of fantastic architecture instead of in trees, produces great wizards and great works of art and so on -- is now filled by (surprise!) the Eladrin.

That is, in rough terms, they're getting rid of "high" elves (or "all-purpose elves, who somehow manage to be specialized rangers and wizards at the same time in a strange thematic dichotomy"), changing the Gray Elves' name to "Eladrin," and changing the Wild/Wood Elves' name to "Elves."

All just IMHO, from what it sounded like in the article. And, overall, I approve, because I never liked the elves' thematic confusion. I always felt like the elves were no longer elves, as long as they had "Favored Class: Wizard." This seems to be taking them back to their roots in a very Lothlorien-style way. (Which I'm afraid will be overdone -- I do want the elves to have some characteristics other than tree-huggerness. But it's a step in the right direction, even if it might be a step wearing seven-league boots.)

For those who are still insisting that Eladrin are CG Outsiders, the chaotic equivalent of Archons, far too powerful to be a core race or a race without LA, and that 4E couldn't possibly change something so fundamental about the demographics of the planes, I recommend you check out the discussion on how much they're changing demons and devils. Get used to the idea, folks: they're redefining a lot about Outsiders to make them more setting-generic and less redundant.

I was surprised at the preservation of the names Corellon (though I notice he dropped his last name) and Obad-Hai. Can't we get a completely new generic pantheon?