D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

[nickl_2000]

Doesn't matter to me either way. However, dang there have been a lot of entries in this contest!

[DracoDei]

Doesn't matter to me either way. However, dang there have been a lot of entries in this contest!

I am also indifferent for the most part.

I guess I could use a few more days to ponder how to nerf offensive spell-casting while under the effects of Vicious Defense.

[Vogie]

I'm going to have basically no time to polish this at all (it's been end-of-semester busy for me the past few weeks), so let me put this query to the thread: if you have a Sorcerer borrowing what amounts to Cunning Action and Action Surge, what do you think is the best thematic / heritage? Quickling, maybe?

Another option is something like the Kalashtar - their core is a being with 2 beings inside themselves, and you can fluff the "extra actions" via cunning & surge as the spirit/beings acting independent of each other

[MoleMage]

Alright, while they weren't particularly committed requests, there were three requests for extension before the deadline yesterday. I'll push the end point of this contest out another two weeks. Voting now opens on May 20th. Sorry for the late post.

[sengmeng]

Alright, while they weren't particularly committed requests, there were three requests for extension before the deadline yesterday. I'll push the end point of this contest out another two weeks. Voting now opens on May 20th. Sorry for the late post.

In that case, I've made some slight adjustments to Path of the Spirit Vessel. I know that the other 1/3 caster subclasses have restrictions on spell choices, but I don't feel that it makes the subclass better (nor should they be forced to take damaging spells by anything other than logic since they get enhancements to damage) and I believe pact magic is a bit weaker than regular spellcasting in general (yes, it recharges faster, but for a single strong encounter, they get 2 spells plus cantrips, and then they're done).

[moonfly7]

So, just saw this and thought it was an AMAZING idea. whipped my subclass for the fighter together and entered it. It's based on a class idea I had a while back but never actually wrote up or posted. it was going to be called the copycat, all it did was take features from other classes, a multi classing class, if you will. I never built it for obvious reasons, but turning it into a fighter subclass made it very fun and, I think, very playable. Its called the Borrower, tell me what you think!

[DracoDei]

Moonfly7:
Quick notes:
I think this class epitomizes the theme of the contest the most, at least in spirit. Technically it doesn't pull from a SINGLE class, but others have pulled from two classes (the two that give improved action economy to full-casters come to mind). However this being 5e, I'm not sure if that technicality is something the voters should/will observe.

If one ignores that, I would say that any negative aspect for its non-specificity reducing the degree of creativity required for your overall concept are more than counterbalanced by the difficulty of writing such a thing so it is balanced, even if one only considers pulling from PHB classes. Unfortunately, I have yet to obtain the breadth of mastery of 5e to say if you have succeeded or failed. If you have created something a bit too powerful, I would recommend reversing the levels at which the 3rd and 7th level abilities are gained.


Now for the less interesting, but, unfortunately, perhaps even more important, aspect: Formatting.

Rather than centering your sub-class and ability titles, I recommend copying someone else's formatting for them. Either:

1. Press "Reply with Quote" on whichever you like in the contest thread, then copy the relevant bits of formatting into a text file, then click the back button or close the tab so you don't actually reply. After that edit your entry with it.
2. Copy the below formattings directly from this post without using the reply+cancel trick I mentioned above and use them to edit your entry. This formatting is the one I used. My intent was to match the typography in the PHB reasonably closely.
   [SIZE=5][COLOR="#B22222"][U]((Insert Subclass Title Here))[/U][/COLOR][/SIZE]
   [SIZE=4][COLOR="#B22222"][B]((Insert Ability Name Here))[/B][/COLOR][/SIZE]

Everyone:
Having found a discussion of Booming Blade in an online blog I can see how it could be cheese in combination with Vicious Defense. Currently I'm tending toward rewording such that anything that involves an attack roll (other than Bolt of Resilient Guidance) will be disallowed in combination with Vicious Defense. Maybe also a -2 to your spell save DCs OR granting Advantage on saves against your spells?

Again, watch for edits of this post, or additional posts for additional reviews.

[moonfly7]

thanks for the advice, I might not do the formatting (cause I'm lazy:}) But I really appreciate the help

[gloryblaze]

Been too long since I entered one of these! Last one was the pop culture reference one, I think? Was glad to see there was a contest open for submissions going on.

Speaking of pop culture references, my submission (the Battledancer Conclave) draws heavily from the Dancer class from the Fire Emblem video games (as well as borrowing its core mechanic from the bard, as per the contest theme).

Design notes:

The additional spells are meant to emphasize bardliness. They're are all bard spells, of course - dissonant whispers and compulsion are bard-only in terms of main spell list, but warlocks can snipe them with GOO patron and an invocation, respectively. Enthrall is also bard/warlock only. Hypnotic Pattern emphasizes this ranger's role as a party supporter, and Dominate Person is the only 5th-level PHB bard spell that really fits in with the rest. Dissonant Whispers and Compulsion are also both spell that allows other party members to make off-turn attacks by forcing enemies to provoke OAs, which is sort of a theme for this subclass.

Natural Grace is meant to encourage/enable building STRangers, since this class requires melee combat for its offensive features. Go ahead and grab GWM or Polearm Master or whatever - you deserve it in exchange for being kinda locked out of some otherwise neat ranger stuff like Lightning Arrow and Swift Quiver. Also, Inspiration competes with PAM for a bonus action, so the minor anti-synergy should help stave off overpoweredness. The 11th level feature is also antisynergetic with GWM's -5/+10 ability, since it rewards accuracy by requiring that you hit with your first attack to proc the additional attack.

Inspiration is as per the bard feature, but always one die size behind (2 sizes at 10th level, since Ranger 10 doesn't grant a subclass feature). The subclass also doesn't get its Font of Inspiration equivalent until 7th level instead of 5th. These balances should hopefully prevent the subclass from overshadowing any actual bards in the party.

Song of Vigor is the main reason I wanted to build this subclass - I wanted to make a FE Dancer subclass, but granting at will off-turn attacks is kind of bonkers. Revised Ranger is the only class that can potentially make it work, because it's a martial class that gets Extra Attack, which is essentially the martials' major tier 2 damage boost, as a subclass feature. EA is one of the only (nearly) equivalently strong always-on abilities in the game. This ability is potentially much stronger than Extra Attack (mostly because of rogues/sneak attack), but it has two main limitations in that both the Battledancer and the beneficiary have to be engaged in melee combat when it's used. This means that to get that juicy extra Sneak Attack, the squishy rogue has to disregard his bonus action disengage and tough it out in melee.

7th level for rangers is just about universally a defense boost, so that's what Battledancers get too. It also felt like the right place for Font of Inspiration (after bards get it, but not too far after). Because you're sort of getting 2 features for 1 here, the defensive benefit isn't always on. It also requires that your party stays grouped up in a nice, AoE-vulnerable way. Gonna make you use that +1 to saves!

11th level feature for rangers is similarly near-universal across subclasses, this time a DPR boost. Battledancer's is balanced against Stalker's Flurry. Stalker's Flurry triggers if you miss at least once. Primal Duet triggers if you and your partner both hit. At a 70% hit rate for the attackers, which feels roughly average (for my games, at least), the two abilities are roughly equal (%chance that you miss at least one of two attacks= 51%, %chance that you and a friend both hit= 49%). However, because I think that Song of Vigor has the potential to be stronger than Extra Attack, I made sure that SF has clear upsides compared to Primal Duet. SF grows in strength with enemy AC, so it gets better in tougher fights when it's needed more. Also, Primal Duet requires that at least one of your allies be in melee with the same target as you, and if it dies to one of your attacks before Primal Duet procs, you can't transfer the Primal Duet attack to a new target the way you could transfer an Extra Attack.

Finally, 15th level is also almost always defensive for rangers. Sometimes-on magic resistance seemed like an interesting idea, as it (like the 7th-level feature) helps with resisting AoE but also encourages bunching up and becoming more vulnerable to AoE. It's an ability that essentially makes itself relevant by encouraging the player to be in situations where it will come up more often.

EDIT: Just finished reading the other contest submissions and - yikes! - noticed that there's already another subclass that borrows Bardic Inspiration with a 1-size die reduction. I do think Bardic Inspiration is sort of the "obvious" thing to borrow from the bard, but I guess great minds think alike on the die size reduction. I hope my subclass is different enough to stand on its own, but I can withdraw it from the contest if necessary.

[sleepyhead]

Dipped my toe into the contest with my Forbidden Knowledge subclass for the wizard. Nice mix of wizard and Great old ones wouldn't mind some input and the fluff is on the grill.

[MoleMage]

EDIT: Just finished reading the other contest submissions and - yikes! - noticed that there's already another subclass that borrows Bardic Inspiration with a 1-size die reduction. I do think Bardic Inspiration is sort of the "obvious" thing to borrow from the bard, but I guess great minds think alike on the die size reduction. I hope my subclass is different enough to stand on its own, but I can withdraw it from the contest if necessary.

I wouldn't worry about it. We are now up to 21 entries, meaning that some duplication is inevitable especially for this theme. As for your class, as well as the Mageblood, Self-Sacrifice Domain, Spirit Vessel, Quickblood, Borrower, and Battledancer, I'll put some feedback up tomorrow afternoon.

[DracoDei]

I wouldn't worry about it. We are now up to 21 entries, meaning that some duplication is inevitable especially for this theme. As for your class, as well as the Mageblood, Self-Sacrifice Domain, Spirit Vessel, Quickblood, Borrower, and Battledancer, I'll put some feedback up tomorrow afternoon.

I look forward to it!

Would be probably have done some reviews myself today if it weren't for a cold that has hit me pretty hard. I've got my weekly game tomorrow or the next day (it seems like it jumps around more than a toad on a hot skillet*).
*Or some other "country-ism", as AJ would say...

When you get to mine, my current largest thoughts/questions are:

1. Should I replace one or both of the class level 7 spells with Greater Invisibility and/or Stoneskin? Those are from an "Arcane" list rather than Paladin, so it seems like it would bump the power up, and I am currently thinking that would be a bad thing.
   
   Then again, if we are supposed to be balancing for average, rather than super-skillful players the tactical forethought required, or the reluctance of the average player to use a lot of the options might reduce the power level. Or should we instead assume that anyone who actually takes the domain will be willing and probably even able to use it more than minimally?
2. Is there a buff, especially a Concentration-duration one, I could replace Greater Restoration with?
3. What is the power level of Readied Defense? Should I cap it at, say, x5 to x10 the original spell's duration before you have to "use it or lose it"?
4. Come to that, how is balance for all of the 6th and/or 8th level choices looking? Should I move some of the 6th level ones to 8th level, or even into a "Director's Cut of Advanced Options" Spoiler to give fewer choices? Perhaps only give 3 choices (what a lot sub-classes get when they get to pick from a list)? If so, which ones? Should I remove or further delay the True Seeing ability you can grant with Take My Eyes, That You Might See. Take My Ears, That You Might Hear.?
   
   As a somewhat separate issue, which of the options look the most FUN to play?

Please excuse any errors either here and/or that I may have recently added to the entry. As I said: I haz a cold.

[moonfly7]

So I'm looking to rename the Borrower to something that sounds more like a subclass for the fighter, any suggestions?

[Vogie]

So I'm looking to rename the Borrower to something that sounds more like a subclass for the fighter, any suggestions?

Maybe name it after the Taskmaster, the Midnighter, or another one of the Intuitive Aptitude/Ability Learning superheroes.

[sleepyhead]

moonfly7 maybe Deft, Adept or Expert? fancy adroit



So not on the dot following warlocks but I feel like this gets out the idea of how Warlocks should be. There's more original abilities rather than just stealing them off of warlocks stuff. The invocations are a bit wonky and I'm wanting to make it so that the player gets some sort of object (such as a Book of Shadows) but it seems like this is already packed on early with features.

Should I switch out some sort of book of shadows for the second second level feature?

post for convenience

[moonfly7]

Maybe name it after the Taskmaster, the Midnighter, or another one of the Intuitive Aptitude/Ability Learning superheroes.

That.....is an amazing idea, I like the taskmaster. But wouldn't that make it sound like I'm just trying to put the taskmaster into dnd?

[Crisis21]

That.....is an amazing idea, I like the taskmaster. But wouldn't that make it sound like I'm just trying to put the taskmaster into dnd?

"If it walk like duck, and talk like duck... is truth serum."

- Ant Man & The Wasp

[Vogie]

That.....is an amazing idea, I like the taskmaster. But wouldn't that make it sound like I'm just trying to put the taskmaster into dnd?

Maybe. Alternatively, hunt down whatever the Taskmaster calls their ability, or how they describe themselves in the comics and other media.

Names have power - they can direct how a player understands the PC. If you named your Borrower a "CopyCat" or "Martial Adopter", it'd invoke a different idea if you called it a "Mooch"

"If it walk like duck, and talk like duck... is truth serum."

- Ant Man & The Wasp

Do you guys just put the word 'quantum' in front of everything??

[sleepyhead]

Went ahead and did it. Some sort of critique would be nice though.

[DracoDei]

Maybe. Alternatively, hunt down whatever the Taskmaster calls their ability, or how they describe themselves in the comics and other media.
[/URL]

I believe he calls it "Photographic Muscle-Memory"? Of course, given the nature of comics he may have called it several different things throughout the decades. Too bad that particular name is anachronistic. Perhaps "Perfect Observational Muscle Memory", or dropping one of those first two words?

Went ahead and did it. Some sort of critique would be nice though.

I'd be quicker to comment on other's work in general, despite the cold, if it weren't for being new to the analytical side of most of 5e.

[sengmeng]

I believe he calls it "Photographic Muscle-Memory"? Of course, given the nature of comics he may have called it several different things throughout the decades. Too bad that particular name is anachronistic. Perhaps "Perfect Observational Muscle Memory", or dropping one of those first two words?

Black Mage says "photographic reflexes."

[Crisis21]

Do you guys just put the word 'quantum' in front of everything??

That is awesome! Do you know of any other Avengers-themed archetypes? Iron Man would totally be an Artificer methinks. Hulk's obviously a Barbarian, Captain America's a shield-specialized Fighter, and I think Thor might be a Paladin.

[moonfly7]

moonfly7 maybe Deft, Adept or Expert?

post for convenience

I like adept or deft, might do a variation on those. Adapt master could also be good maybe.

[moonfly7]

Or perhaps fluid adept

[DracoDei]

I've thrown in a phrase on Selfless Sacrifice so you don't lose advantage on the concentration saving throws that the 1st level ability gives you proficiency and advantage in.

Or perhaps fluid adept

Might have been more polite to edit your previous post, rather than making a new one.

EDIT: And now I added a spoiler for GMs with a single sentence suggestion in it.

[gloryblaze]

That is awesome! Do you know of any other Avengers-themed archetypes? Iron Man would totally be an Artificer methinks. Hulk's obviously a Barbarian, Captain America's a shield-specialized Fighter, and I think Thor might be a Paladin.

Middle Finger of Vecna has a paladin oath based on Thor

[MoleMage]

Took me longer to write up than I anticipated and I got a late afternoon start, but the promised feedback is here!

Spoiler: Mageblood

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I don't have any balance concerns with this class at all, actually. I think you've plugged any leaks pretty well before I got here. I will say that the early features feel a little uninteresting, but with access to everything on the sorcerer spell list it probably covers any lack of features with interesting spells.

One concern for Magical Evisceration: the Sorcerer spell list offers very little that qualifies for this. At a glance, I only found three spells that qualify for this, all first-level (Witch Bolt, Chromatic Orb, and Ray of Sickness). I would consider opening this up to cantrips; it wouldn't be out of line considering its one per day limitation.

Spoiler: Self-Sacrifice Domain

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You had previously said that you were fairly new to 5e homebrewing, so some of my notes will mention what typical expectations in 5e are. These are, of course, mostly guidelines (and unofficial ones at that), but it will hopefully be helpful to you in building a frame of reference. These expectations will be in dark green unless I forget to format them.

First, your specific questions:

Spoiler

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1. Should I replace one or both of the class level 7 spells with Greater Invisibility and/or Stoneskin? Those are from an "Arcane" list rather than Paladin, so it seems like it would bump the power up, and I am currently thinking that would be a bad thing.
2. Is there a buff, especially a Concentration-duration one, I could replace Greater Restoration with?
3. What is the power level of Readied Defense? Should I cap it at, say, x5 to x10 the original spell's duration before you have to "use it or lose it"?
4. Come to that, how is balance for all of the 6th and/or 8th level choices looking? Should I move some of the 6th level ones to 8th level, or even into a "Director's Cut of Advanced Options" Spoiler to give fewer choices? Perhaps only give 3 choices (what a lot sub-classes get when they get to pick from a list)? If so, which ones? Should I remove or further delay the True Seeing ability you can grant with Take My Eyes, That You Might See. Take My Ears, That You Might Hear.?

1. I think the spells you have here are fine. Neither Greater Invisibility nor Stoneskin gives me the vibe of "I'm doing this so you don't have to suffer", and Greater Invisibility is in fact a very aggressive option (stoneskin less so, but it encourages your allies to put themselves in danger, which seems to go against the grain of this class).
2. Telepathic Bond, maybe? It isn't concentration, but neither is it self-only like Dispel Evil and Good or Antilife Shell. 5th level is pretty bare for buff spells.
3. Concentration is hotly contested in the 5e buffing game, so Readied Defense is fine just requiring the Concentration while withheld.
4. 8th level Cleric domains should give Divine Strike or Potent Cantrip (all existing domains give one or the other). I think that overall, you should narrow down the number of options and special conditions on things; there are a lot of them and 5e tends to favor simpler character options. That said, the fact that the game is too unvaried is one of the primary complaints about it so some people will see the introduction of extra complexity as a bonus.

Now, to the rest of the domain. Overall, I feel like you have tried to put a whole base class into a clerical domain (I realize that a lot didn't make the cut, but this is an incredibly bulky domain, feature wise). I recommend reducing the number of options and special clauses across the whole thing. Some specifics:

• Many of your features have short rest refresh. Other than Channel Divinity, Clerics are typically long-rest refresh on features.

• Conditional armor proficiency. I saw above that you did it deliberately because thematically it is important that they not be hindering themselves in case they need to hurry for a life-saving emergency, but it would honestly be less strange to me if you gave them heavy armor proficiency and the ability to ignore move speed reduction from armor, rather than heavy armor proficiency as long as they don't suffer reduction. If it is that essential that they get heavy armor but not that heavy armor, borrow the wording from Druids' metal armor restriction: "[Clerics of this domain] will not wear armor [that would slow them down]."
• Likewise, giving a free skill proficiency or a free cantrip would be perfectly acceptable for a cleric domain at 1st level. As a player I would rather see "You know the spare the dying cantrip. It does not count against your cleric cantrips known." or free Medicine proficiency than the requirements in how I build. (5e expectation: Classes will only add to the player's choices, never subtract or restrict them).
• The first level Concentration bonus is also very specific, but of the three it's the one I'm most okay with because it tells me what to expect mechanically from this class (I'm going to be casting concentration buffs that affect my allies but not me), unlike the other two which give me part of something or even take away one of my choices.

• At 2nd level, I recommend limiting it to one Channel Divinity option (as other cleric domains get). I also will note that for the most part, durations in 5e are static rather than level based (Wild Shape is the only exception that comes to mind off the top of my head).
• Vicious Defense does too much all at once. Even with the drawback, clerics still have access to a lot of non-attack roll offensive options (including their iconic damage cantrip sacred flame), and the damage cap on their smite is higher than the paladin's.

• At 6th level, I feel like there are too many choices here. If you want to do the advanced options spoiler that would be okay too, Totem Barbarians have had extra options added by splat books and I would see an advanced options spoiler in a similar light.
• Carry the Burden: The clause about dividing the weight is a little hard to parse. A similar (though slightly more powerful) but easier to parse version: "For each potential target of fly which you did not use, divide the weight you gain by 2." If you like, you could add "to a minimum of 1/16th the original weight." to put a lower bound on this.
• Gift of Time: This is okay, though I would limit it to Wisdom Mod for uses (no proficiency bonus). It is potentially exploitable, but frankly the situations where it would be exploited would probably be better served by the cleric getting a turn.
• Take my Eyes: The sub-effects could probably be changed to level-scaling. For example, the eyes option: "For the duration, you become blind, and the target's vision is enhanced. They gain Darkvision to 60 feet,immunity to the blinded condition, and advantage on Wisdom(Perception) checks involving sight, even if they are not normally capable of sight. If you are at least 10th level, they also gain the benefits of the See Inivisibility spell for the duration. If you are at least 15th level, they also gain the benefits of the True Seeing spell for the duration." I will also note that in 5e, blindsense and blindsight are not differentiated, and low-light vision no longer exists (it's now part of Darkvision).
• Mob-Halting Reflexes: Either too niche (if you are a backlines cleric) or too strong (getting 3-6 boosted accuracy opportunity attacks a turn with Divine Strike and the Vicious Defense super-Smite). The issue here isn't in breaking with 5e's speed of play, but with expectations about how much a given character can do in a given time frame.
• Readied Defense I discussed above. Giving up concentration for it is sufficiently large a setback to justify its uses, especially considering it still consumes the spell slot. The wording could use a little clean up ("provides a beneficial effect to in an area" looks like an editing typo) and I do think that making an example is a good idea, but it's fine as-is. One note about reactions in 5e: They are just that, reactions. They almost always (possibly always in official materials but I'm going to hedge) require a stimulus (When X, you may Y as a reaction).

• At 8th level, every other existing Domain in 5e gives one of the following effects (no choice, it's domain-specific):
• Divine Strike: Once on each of your turns, when you hit a creature with a weapon attack, you can cause the attack to deal an additional 1d8 [type] damage. When you reach 14th level, the extra damage increases to 2d8.
• Potent Spellcasting: You add your Wisdom modifier to the damage you deal with any cleric cantrip.

• That said, I actually like your variation of Divine Strike, and would recommend that instead of getting options at this level, you get just that.
• Protector's Reward turns Vicious Defense's smite effect into a crazy-efficient way to deal a lot of damage really quickly. Combined with Mob-Halting Reflexes, a whip (for finesse), and a high dexterity score, it just deals too much damage.

• Band of Brothers is a good capstone. The Warding Bond restriction is probably unnecessary.
• Stoic Casting is probably not necessary; from level 1 you had proficiency and advantage on the important spells.

Overall, this class has a lot (too much in my opinion) going on, and it has roughly three different identities which vary based on choices (A: I give something up, and you gain something, B: I use concentration buffs on other people, C: I make opportunity attacks to keep enemies from reaching my allies). I recommend picking one of those three to focus on and trimming features from the other two out.

Spoiler: Path of the Spirit Vessel

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I have to say, the number of "pact magic" style subclasses in this contest makes me happy. I feel like it was an underutilized mechanic in the base game.

• Not going to say much about spellcasting; it looks like this is just 1/3rd progression translated for warlock casting. I notice you left off restrictions on spell school, which I agree with due to the extremely limited warlock list.
• Invocation requirements: Do Barbarians count as having any pacts or patrons? Can they swap out invocations when they gain a level or new invocation, as warlocks can? Other than that, it's good. Invocations other than the eldritch blast modifiers and pact blade modifiers tend to be utilitous anyway; nothing game-breaking.
• Spirit Weapon: I like the part about dealing force damage in a rage.
• Spell Rage: It's worth noting that spells with attack rolls can already critically hit and double all of their dice per the standard critical hit rules. Allowing them to benefit from brutal critical is good through. Does it also scale with brutal critical's additional bonus dice?
• Spirit's Protection: "Negative status" is kind of open ended. Maybe something like "One spell or condition (other than exhausted) currently affecting you" instead?
• Spirit Master: I would limit the spell slots regained per day. Maybe "once you have used this feature, you cannot use it again until you have completed a long rest", but make it give you both of your slots instead of just one? At this level, barbarians have 5 rages. Assuming 2 short rests per day as suggested in the DMG, this would turn 6 slots into as many as 11 if you tried to time rages based on your spell usage, or semi-reliably turns 6 slots into 9 (assuming you managed to trigger it once per short rest).

I like it. It's got everything I'd want in a spellcasting barbarian except maybe resistance to magical effects and bearbarian already locked that down.

Spoiler: Quickblood

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Huh, I hadn't thought of or seen a speed based sorcerer before, but with your fluff it seems like the most logical thing.

• Fast Fingers is a good utility ability. I feel like losing the ability when you cast a 1st level or higher spell is unnecessary (Help and Use an Item are underutilized and most tool use happens out of combat anyway).
• Speedforce Surge: Is there a limit other than my available sorcery points to the number of actions I can take on a given turn? Any restrictions on what actions I can use with it (like Haste)? I can easily see myself playing this class and routinely dumping 1st and 2nd level slots to points to drop 2 cantrips and a quickened spell in a round, but I'm also giving up resource efficiency in order to do it so it's probably in a good place.
• Jittery: Fine, if a little odd (climbing and swimming are typically associated with strength rather than speed).
• True Quickener: As with Speedforce Surge, is there a per-turn limit? Can I combine with Speedforce Surge to cast 3 full spells in a turn (2 points for the first quickened spell, Level points for the second spell as an action, then Level+3 for a Speedforce Surge True Quickened spell?). The temporary hit points are pretty small for such a short duration, but also seem secondary so it's probably fine.

Overall, the class is nice, compact, and clearly themed. One concern I have is that the capstone relies on the Sorcerer picking Quicken Spell or one of the fairly limited list of sorcerer spells that has a native casting time of a bonus action; it's entirely possible for a character to accidentally be unable to use their capstone. You could fix this by removing the bonus action requirement (allowing it to trigger using just Speedforce Surge) or by giving Quicken Spell as a "free" metamagic earlier in the class.

Spoiler: The Borrower (or its new name if it has one before I post)

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Well, I guess there's using the theme and then there's embodying the theme. You chose to do the latter. I like this as an idea; and actually wouldn't mind seeing this for other classes as a sort of alternate multiclassing.

• Writing style note: when you choose a feature from a class, "which that class gains at 2nd level or lower" looks better than "that that class gains at 2nd level or lower". Also, some of your commas need to be upgraded to new sentences.
• Knowledge Gained seems fairly exploitation-proof as written. Kudos, that must have been pretty difficult to manage given how broadly applicable it is.
• Intensive Study and Careful Observance are as straight-forward as they come and well within balance.
• Masterful Replication: Why couldn't I use this to progress a previously taken feature? Not automatically, but I feel like it would be nice to choose Sneak Attack at 3rd level, and then at 15th level choose Sneak Attack again and get a better version of Sneak Attack (as opposed to choosing Sneak Attack and it improves because I've chosen Cunning Action).
• Temporary Replication: Can it duplicate spells? If so, what are the rules on spell slot level? Does it duplicate the feature at the level they have it or a flat level a la Knowledge Gained/Masterful Replication?

I like this class, but I wish there was some way to improve the features I borrowed. Right now the optimum picks are pretty much Barbarian Rage and Uncanny Dodge, as they scale through synergy with other features, while other picks like Divine Smite are entirely unusable (no spell slots). Overall though, you've got very clean mechanics and a fun theme, which is more important (and there are a lot of choices to mix and match).

Spoiler: Battledancer Conclave

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Given your description, I think another name that incorporates more nature (Gladesong Conclave, Wilddancer Conclave) would be cool.

• Natural Grace: Rangers are already Dex+Wis based, so allowing Wis substitution for Dex seems odd.
• Battledancer Inspiration: Downstepped Bardic Inspiration. It's fine, and I guess explains why you allow Wis to AC (so you can get more Inspiration Dice).
• Song of Vigor: The safest way to introduce FE style dancing to DnD. It's good. Might be a little strong with a rogue teammate, but it also forces them into melee.
• Harmonic Resonance: I almost missed the short rest refresh on dice here, and was going to comment. It's a good feature if you can get your teammates on board with it, but the short rest refresh makes it worthwhile even if you have that one guy who can't hold on to his die for more than one round.
• Primal Duet: A nice conditional extra attack.
• Rhythm of the Wilds: So like Countersong, but usable? Glorious!

I really like this class's theme (the names fit, the description fits) and features, but Battledancer doesn't seem to fit the rest, as I noted at the top of this block. Good work!

Spoiler: Forbidden Knowledge

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Wizardlock! If you haven't been keeping up with the chat thread, this was one that I wanted to try but couldn't figure out, so I'm happy you did.

• Boons of Knowledge: It's odd that you can get Pact of the Tome features one level before your lender class could. Other than that, it's a fine feature. Can you swap invocations out at any point (like when you gain a level or when you gain a new invocation?).
• Knowledge from the Shadows: Are the additional spells restricted in any way (do they have to be for levels you can cast, IE first level, or only rituals, or anything like that?). I don't necessarily agree with the additional spells on top of the cantrips; that budges in on the Bard's Magical Secrets exclusivity.
• Guardians of Knowledge: Do the tentacles have to appear in empty spaces? Can hostile creatures move through them? Since they don't deal damage, the only concern I have is that they might turn into a mini-wall too easily otherwise.
• Bringer of Madness: This should probably be a long rest recharge only. Frightened isn't the strongest condition (too much is immune to it), but that duration is really good. I might even restrict this to one use per long rest (and give it level scaling instead of a spell slot requirement).
• Trip to the Far Realm: A weaker GOO themed version of Hurl Through Hell, so I guess it's fine for balance. I agree with the long rest recharge here.

This is one of the few subclasses here that really took two distinct themes and turned them into a third, related but unique, theme, and I think that's excellent. Other than what I mentioned above I would give it a thorough proofreading, and I think you'll be in a pretty good place.

[moonfly7]

Well, I guess there's using the theme and then there's embodying the theme. You chose to do the latter. I like this as an idea; and actually wouldn't mind seeing this for other classes as a sort of alternate multiclassing.

• Writing style note: when you choose a feature from a class, "which that class gains at 2nd level or lower" looks better than "that that class gains at 2nd level or lower". Also, some of your commas need to be upgraded to new sentences.
• Knowledge Gained seems fairly exploitation-proof as written. Kudos, that must have been pretty difficult to manage given how broadly applicable it is.
• Intensive Study and Careful Observance are as straight-forward as they come and well within balance.
• Masterful Replication: Why couldn't I use this to progress a previously taken feature? Not automatically, but I feel like it would be nice to choose Sneak Attack at 3rd level, and then at 15th level choose Sneak Attack again and get a better version of Sneak Attack (as opposed to choosing Sneak Attack and it improves because I've chosen Cunning Action).
• Temporary Replication: Can it duplicate spells? If so, what are the rules on spell slot level? Does it duplicate the feature at the level they have it or a flat level a la Knowledge Gained/Masterful Replication?

I like this class, but I wish there was some way to improve the features I borrowed. Right now the optimum picks are pretty much Barbarian Rage and Uncanny Dodge, as they scale through synergy with other features, while other picks like Divine Smite are entirely unusable (no spell slots). Overall though, you've got very clean mechanics and a fun theme, which is more important (and there are a lot of choices to mix and match).

1. thank you so much for the input, it really is gonna help.

2. I thought a progressed feature might be to over powered you know? like giving too much of the class to another class. But I was teetering on that anyway, I'll fix that.

3. Yes, it can duplicate spells. It takes the spell that the caster you chose just cast, and casts the same spell again at the same level. With the abilities, you mimic it at the level they used it at, so a level 14 rogues sneak attack you mimic using Temporary Replication is done as if a level 14 rogue does it, so at the level of the creature you mimic. I'll add that to the subclass.

As for scaling the abilities you mimicked as you grow, I'm not sure how to do that and still be balanced. If anyone has a suggestion on that I'll gladly take it. I suppose for things like divine smite I could add a one use thing that lets you do it once at its base without a spell slot. But personally, I think that might be maybe to much. you could always take spell casting first then divine smite if you wanted it. Someone let me know if they think I should do something like I suggested for features like divine smite.

I think I have the new name for the subclass: either Replicator Adept or Adept Replicator. I'll take votes/flat suggestions on which is better.

[KOLE]

One concern for Magical Evisceration: the Sorcerer spell list offers very little that qualifies for this. At a glance, I only found three spells that qualify for this, all first-level (Witch Bolt, Chromatic Orb, and Ray of Sickness). I would consider opening this up to cantrips; it wouldn't be out of line considering its one per day limitation.

First of all, thanks for the review. Since we've gotten an extension I will be doing some more tweaking; cleaning up features. I don't know why I was at first adverse to having it for cantrips as well, I guess I wanted it to have more cost to making the gamble, but I think can be a little more lenient. I was also surprised to see how few ranged attack spells their were on the Sorcerer list; I recall there being more! I'm adjusting it to accommodate this.

So many entries! This is awesome. Here's my words of feedback...

Spoiler: Path of the Pack Master

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I've thought about a subclass like this before, and I love your implementation. It's well put together and reads very officially. I like your implementation of hit dice and exhaustion, it's thematic and in my opinion helps balance things out.

I feel like you should specify Warding Bond also doesn't require the material components, unless it's intentional that you want it. I feel like Beast Bond would be a more appropriate spell here, but I can see where you're coming from. I feel like Revised Beasts already get enough buffs from your prof modifier, so Warding Bond might be just a little too much. I dislike the finickiness of your companion not getting magical attacks if it has Warding Bond. I'd just give it to them for free, as a small separate feature at this level. It's not really something that effects balance and just makes unneeded complication.

"You can see through your Companion's eyes at all times while retaining your own vision." This is a bit confusing and I feel like it could be a hassle for players and DMs alike. I'd give them the same benefits as the Chainlock invocation instead.

"If both you and your Companion are adjacent to the same enemy, you can spend your Bonus Action to cause your next attack in the same turn to have Advantage against that creature." This is very thematic and appropriate for this level, I like that. It's a bit tedious; I'd simplify it to "If both you and your companion are adjacent to the same enemy, you can use your bonus action to have the next attack against that enemy to be made with Advantage." This opens it up to be used by you, your animal companion, or help your allies out a little.

Guardian of the Pack is solid! That's the kind of capstone that would get me excited to be a Barbarian! I would remove the footer of Raging if you weren't already, though. I feel like it was thematic decision, but not really necessary.

Spoiler: The Skinwalker

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The first thing I noticed was that Gaseous Form felt really out of place; but after looking at every 3rd level spell not already on the Ranger spell list, I can't see anything that would be appropriate. Maybe Fear? But it's fine. I was also worried that Polymorph would be a little strong, but seeing that the other Ranger Magic lists have a darn good 4th level spell on them, I think you're perfectly in line here. I really like the spell list here.

As for the Wild Shape feature itself- there's not much I can say. It's well thought out, and thorough. I personally feel it's a little TOO thorough. I feel like you were trying to fix Wildshape itself with this; make it more thematic and interesting. That's fine, but I dislike the extra complication. I try not to force thematic decisions in a 'Brew. A wildshaping ranger who uses the skins of his enemies is a great character. It doesn't necessarily need to be baked into the subclass itself. If you kept all the other restrictions in place and axed the extra book keeping of finding and keeping skins and rolling to see if they're destroyed, I still think this is good and balanced. That being said, this is your Brew and clearly your decision, that's perfectly fine.

I would nix favored form, however, as it feels like another layer of complication. Otherwise, I would tie the number of times you can turn into it as equal to your wisdom modifier or prof bonus. I don't like the idea of at will wild shaping, even for a CR0 form. That's a lot of scouting, and without limit just becomes the default tactic of choice.

Monstrous form also feels really complicated and I'm struggling to see how useful it would be. Do you have to don it at the end of the hour? It feels like you do. I dislike giving a player an open ended option with a laundry list of chances, exceptions, and limitations. It really kills the usefulness, and feels very unintuitive. I think this should go back to the drawing board. Maybe taking the form of a Lycanthrope for an hour?

I really appreciate that you specified when Wild Shape improves in their own separate sections. It's clean and helpful for a player. I love the Smite feature, it feels like it would be really fun and useful for this subclass.

I like the capstone a lot! I would however have the fly speed as a separate section at the same level- if only because it feels weird to have one part of the feature say "At Will" and another say "Once per short or long rest"

All in all, I think this has strong potential. It's very iconic and feels like a great Ranger that I'd be eager to play.

Spoiler: Fighter, Enlightened Warrior

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I actually don't have anything to say here. I really like this. It's very well put together and feels pretty balanced. It instantly strike a thematic chord and is packed with goodies that I'd love to have on a Fighter. Special shout out to the capstone. That's a terrific feature!

Spoiler: Fighter: Green Knight

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First of all, I love the theme. I enjoy 1/3rd casters and like the idea of a Druid Fighter. It's fun! That being said, I think the Shillelagh feature is crazy good, probably too good.

My reasons for this:
-First of all, the subclass is too front loaded. You're getting three great features in one level. Spellcasting is almost strong enough to be its own feature. Notice the EK and AT mostly get ribbons in addition to it. They're useful ribbons, sure, but not gamechangers like you've introduced here. So having Spellcasting, Bonus prof, and the Shillelagh feature is too much. Pick two.

The Shillelagh feature is too much, and it combos really well with almost every option the fighter has, and makes it pretty SAD up front. You're letting a Fighter get almost everything it wants with WIS alone. Giving them Shillelagh by itself is good; being able to keep a competitive Spell Save and attack bonus while still buffing their main weapon attack and damage is already great. The other stuff on top keeps it well ahead of the curve for the Fighter's entire career, and gives them a guaranteed magic item. It's just too much. I'd give them prof in Nature or Herbalism kit and the Shillelagh cantrip for free, and they're already good to go.

Nature's Serenity and Undying Sentinel should be swapped; NS at 15 and US at 10. Giving Fighters Rogue's Slippery Mind and a lesser version of Diamond Soul 4/5 levels early doesn't feel right.

I think Nature's Armory is fine as is if you take all the other Shillelagh goodies away.

Spoiler: Faustian College

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This is solid, I'd love to play this sometime. I like that you gave it that Pathfinder cantrip as a feature, its a pleasant ribbon that the class builds on. I'm confused about the spell save DC though. I understand that you'll have expertise in Performance, but how is 3 + performance skill good? At level 3, by RAW point buy, you'll have a +3 to charisma, so with Expertise in performance your DC will be 3+3(CHA)+4(double prof)=10. Why would you want that, what am I missing?

Otherwise, a solid College.

I will try to get more reviewed tomorrow, but alas it is bedtime now.

[Crisis21]

Middle Finger of Vecna has a paladin oath based on Thor

Awesomesauce!