OOTS #318 - The Discussion Thread

[Nerd-o-rama]

xyzchx: Well, as characters go, they're both mature responsible adults - particularly compared to everyone around them. I think they have some clue what they're doing. And having sex on a first date isn't an automatic recipe for disaster, considering the aforementioned emotional maturity. Besides: it's a holiday (that's usually celebrated with some kind of carnal indulgence in our culture, for some reason), and they're not likely to see each other again for quite a while, what with the whole adventurer and law student things. They just decided to enjoy the moment.

Also, this deserves a rescue from the bottom of the page:

In regards to The Giant's use of first date sex and whether or not that is what's implied, I have just one thing to say:

Hot dwarf on dwarf action baby.

[Renrik]

chicka-whomp-whomp!

OOOHHHH!

[ed]

xyzchyx quoth
i'm not trying to impose any particular morality on roy or celia when i suggested it would be tacky for the giant to suggest that they had sex, or even that they had sex in a comic, but that they did it on their first date. i cannot see it going well, and it wouldn't be remotely funny or entertaining to watch either.

i'm curious why you leap to that conclusion. you haven't elaborated on any reasons for that notion that i've seen. ?

xyzchyx quoth
in all honesty, everything about the circumstance suggests to me that they were doing some serious making out the night before, but never actually consumated anything.

really? b/c everything about the circumstance suggests to me that they cast summon the beast with two backs IX: bedhead, celia hiding behind curtain, dress askew. further, since roy would presumably not have convened a meeting of the gang in his room at such an inopportune time, your conclusion appears to have trouble passing the occams razor test.

xyzchyx quoth
then there's also the fact that because they wouldn't have ever actually"finished" anything if that were the case, they are probably still quite hot and bothered, and it would be far less likely they would have had the time to physically and emotionally prepare for the arrival of the morning, when roy had things to do.

this only works if you assume that the giant, like joss whedon, delights in torturing his characters. i haven't really seen enough evidence to make such a conclusion, myself.

ed

[Peptuck]

You know what the most rocking part about this comic is? Not V's continued harrassment of Belkar, which itself is highly amusing, or the fact that Roy finally got a woman who isn't Lawful Insane.

Roy's got his sword on his back, which hasn't been that way for nearly two hundred strips.

[ed]

peptuck: excellent point re: sword.

er...having seen some CN players before, are you sure that shouldn't be chaotic insane? :>

edit: i love that avatar.

ed

[Jack Squat]

peptuck: excellent point re: sword.

er...having seen some CN players before, are you sure that shouldn't be chaotic insane? :>

edit: i love that avatar.

ed

He was talking about Miko, not Celia

[infiniteviking]

I say it too often, but... YAY VAARSUVIUS! May this ceaseless persecution of a being in every way his intellectual and moral inferior NEVER END! Mwahahahahaha!!!!

And now he's purchasing reagents!? Be very afraid.....

(I love how Roy completely ignores the implications of V's statement. He really doesn't want to know what's going on. They're consenting adults, they should be allowed to blow each other up at every opportunity. ;D)

Also, yay for plot! I like joke comics, but plot is a whole 'nother level of enjoyment.

[ed]

i know that. i was referring more to the way people used to play CN.

ed

[Kanashimi]

Was there this big of a deal over Durkon and Hilgya doing the two backed beast?

Really, in both cases here, Roy/Celia and Durkon/Hilgya knew each other as fellow adventurers for some time before expressing their affection physically. It's kind of like having a friend around for a long time then professing feelings for them. It's pretty natural, since the friend and respect thing is already established, to move a little faster than normal on the physical.

I think that at least for me, the fact that Roy respects Celia as a person (which he has stated) is more important than how long they have been "going out"

If Elan hooks up with some random chick on a street, well then he's a bit of a slut. THAT's rushing things. But if Hayley finally confessed her love for him and they ended up in bed, I don't think anyone would have a problem with that.

Like I kind of though about his comment regarding "seducing" Samantha. "It's my solemn duty to seduce female bad guys" Obviously indicates no respect or interest in them other than to occupy them with distractions of the flesh while the rest of the party accomplished their goal.

[xyzchyx]

really? b/c everything about the circumstance suggests to me that they cast summon the beast with two backs IX: bedhead, celia hiding behind curtain, dress askew.

"Bedhead" isn't only caused by lying in bed. Making out for while can accomplish the same thing as can skewed clothing. Celia could easily have been hiding behind the curtain to avoid embarassment.

further, since roy would presumably not have convened a meeting of the gang in his room at such an inopportune time,

Roy convened the meeting because he intended to do so first thing in the morning, probably even before Celia ever asked him out on the date. If he had not done so, he would not have been dressed in his adventuring gear and would have been as unprepared as Celia was. If they had gone all the way, they would be more rested, and Celia would have had more time to psychologically and physically prepare for the gang's arrival.

your conclusion appears to have trouble passing the occams razor test.

Well, I admit that my conclusion is based heavily on my own personal real-life observations in a not entirely dissimilar situtation, so Occam's razor need not apply. And, IMO, it seems carry a greater potential for humour on account of sexual tension if Roy and Celia hadn't actually done it yet.

this only works if you assume that the giant, like joss whedon, delights in torturing his characters. i haven't really seen enough evidence to make such a conclusion, myself.

Let's see... Durkon and Hilgya, Elan and Haley, Miko and Roy.... And that's just the romantic issues.

If Rich didn't like prolonging the agony just a little bit, Xykon would already be dead, V's gender would be clearly established, Belkar would have reformed, and oh heck, every plot would have already been resolved. Tension creates opportunity for plot. Both in the story and between the reader and the story.

[Holy_Knight]

If Elan hooks up with some random chick on a street, well then he's a bit of a slut. THAT's rushing things. But if Hayley finally confessed her love for him and they ended up in bed, I don't think anyone would have a problem with that.

I agree with this, actually. Still, though, I would say that Durkon/Hilgya and Roy/Celia moved a bit too fast, although you're right that neither one was just some "random hookup".

Like I kind of though about his comment regarding "seducing" Samantha. "It's my solemn duty to seduce female bad guys" Obviously indicates no respect or interest in them other than to occupy them with distractions of the flesh while the rest of the party accomplished their goal.

See, the thing about this is that I took Elan to actually believe it. Some characters might have used that line as an excuse, but I thought Elan was being serious when he said it, which is why I have a hard time viewing him too harshly for it. I also think that if he were actually in a relationship (with Haley, for instance), he wouldn't still do that sort of thing. I can't imagine him ever doing anything that he knew would hurt someone he cared about.

[iamwardicus]

lol - It seems that Roy did fail a lot of those grapple checks and Did end up being "Pinned" :-p awesomeness. I wonder what's going to happen with haley.... as for the explosive runes - go V! (I always thought V was a woman tho'.... especially since Haley seems to be so close to V.. o h well - i'll figure it out eventually.

[Kanashimi]

lol - It seems that Roy did fail a lot of those grapple checks and Did end up being "Pinned" :-p awesomeness. I wonder what's going to happen with haley.... as for the explosive runes - go V! (I always thought V was a woman tho'.... especially since Haley seems to be so close to V.. o h well - i'll figure it out eventually.

i think regardness of V's gender, s/he should be offended by being kissed by Belkar. After all, s/he IS married!!

[iamwardicus]

in belkars defense - he was under some serious influence... but you are right in the whole married thing with V.

[CelestialStick]

I agree with this, actually. Still, though, I would say that Durkon/Hilgya and Roy/Celia moved a bit too fast, although you're right that neither one was just some "random hookup".

See, the thing about this is that I took Elan to actually believe it. Some characters might have used that line as an excuse, but I thought Elan was being serious when he said it, which is why I have a hard time viewing him too harshly for it. I also think that if he were actually in a relationship (with Haley, for instance), he wouldn't still do that sort of thing. I can't imagine him ever doing anything that he knew would hurt someone he cared about.

I thought Elan believed it too.

I don't see the big deal with Roy and Celia having sex. I suppose it's possble that they didn't actually have sex, but if they did, they were consenting adult creature types so I just don't see the problem--though I wouldn't have minded seeing what Celia's 18 Charisma is worth "under the hood." ;)

[Krytha]

in belkars defense - he was under some serious influence... but you are right in the whole married thing with V.

Yeah, but V being married isn't the only thing. V despises Belkar and regards him as the lowest being that ever despoiled the earth.

Now imagine kissing someone you didn't just hate, but made you sick to even think about... Explosive runes for breakfast?

[molonel]

Two more comics until they start killing things again.

[saraswati]

Says whom? I have absolutely no trouble forcing my value that rape is evil on a would-be rapist. I bet you don't either.

While I agree with you Stick, I'm pretty sure Shalaina was implying -consenting- adults. At least that's how I read it.

Also, re the discussion of whether or not Giant is really implying that Roy and Celia had sex, and if so, whether or not that is surprising/out of the ordinary/shocking etc. Although OOTS is set in generic D & D fantasy world, there is a lot in there to imply a modern mindset, not -really- a mideval mindset. For better or for worse, random, casual, or first date sex is common in today's U.S. society. If you think it's immoral that's fine. But its not at all unusual or a leap in logic to assume that Roy and Celia did indeed, do the nasty all night long, if you are putting their actions in a modern context.

I, for one, approve. {like you care :P}

[CelestialStick]

While I agree with you Stick, I'm pretty sure Shalaina was implying -consenting- adults. At least that's how I read it.

Also, re the discussion of whether or not Giant is really implying that Roy and Celia had sex, and if so, whether or not that is surprising/out of the ordinary/shocking etc. Although OOTS is set in generic D & D fantasy world, there is a lot in there to imply a modern mindset, not -really- a mideval mindset. For better or for worse, random, casual, or first date sex is common in today's U.S. society. If you think it's immoral that's fine. But its not at all unusual or a leap in logic to assume that Roy and Celia did indeed, do the nasty all night long, if you are putting their actions in a modern context.

I, for one, approve. {like you care :P}

Sure, I'm not one of those people who is going to be nasty and say that I don't care what you think. If I don't care what you think there's little point in our having a discussion. :)

In any case I wasn't objecting them having sex, as I've said in two other posts. In fact I think it's great that Celia scored! ;) I was just objecting to the vaccuous (and self-contradictory) postmodernist claim that "you can't impose your morality on others."

[molonel]

Although OOTS is set in generic D & D fantasy world, there is a lot in there to imply a modern mindset, not -really- a mideval mindset. For better or for worse, random, casual, or first date sex is common in today's U.S. society.

People in the medieval period didn't have casual sex?

That's news to me.

[CelestialStick]

Sure, I'm not one of those people who is going to be nasty and say that I don't care what you think. If I don't care what you think there's little point in our having a discussion. :)

In any case I wasn't objecting them having sex, as I've said in two other posts. In fact I think it's great that Celia scored! ;) I was just objecting to the vaccuous (and self-contradictory) postmodernist claim that "you can't impose your morality on others."

Edit: Scandinavia, which got Christanized last of all western Europe, had considerably more acceptance of sex than other parts of Medieval western Europe. Of course, even in more thoroughly Christianized western Europe, that sort of morality was preached more than practiced. :)

[molonel]

Of course, even in more thoroughly Christianized western Europe, that sort of morality was preached more than practiced. :)

I'm sure it would have surprised Chaucer to learn that nobody had casual sex in medieval Europe. Or the medieval ballad writers.

[CelestialStick]

I say it too often, but... YAY VAARSUVIUS! May this ceaseless persecution of a being in every way his intellectual and moral inferior NEVER END! Mwahahahahaha!!!!

And now he's purchasing reagents!? Be very afraid.....

(I love how Roy completely ignores the implications of V's statement. He really doesn't want to know what's going on. They're consenting adults, they should be allowed to blow each other up at every opportunity. ;D)

Also, yay for plot! I like joke comics, but plot is a whole 'nother level of enjoyment.

Yeah, but V being married isn't the only thing. V despises Belkar and regards him as the lowest being that ever despoiled the earth.

Now imagine kissing someone you didn't just hate, but made you sick to even think about... Explosive runes for breakfast?

Fellas, I'm thinkin' it's explosive runes for breakfast, lunch and dinner--and hopefully second breakfast, tea and onezies too. ;)

[Shalaina]

Says whom? I have absolutely no trouble forcing my value that rape is evil on a would-be rapist. I bet you don't either.

Obviously I was assuming laws to apply and both persons involved to consent. I figured that was blatantly obvious. In the case of rape, I also strongly doubt you would be *forcing* your own values onto others as I'm quite certain the victim's take on the issue would match your own.
I merely meant to express my distate for people feeling the necessity to poke their noses into other people's - or in this case stickfigures' ;) - business, particularly when we're talking about something as personal as intercourse. As long as they're adults and both consent, they're free to do whatever pleases them, and I've never been able to understand why some people seem to think they've got the right to tell others what is - according to them - right or wrong.

P.S: I neither know nor care whether that's considered to be "postmodernist", trendy, liberal or whatever; to me, giving each person to right to act as they please as long as it's within the boundaries of law is simply one of the basic prerogatives of each individual that are based on our right to liberty. You know, the great achievements of the French Revolution and all that. Liberty to me also means absence of social pressure.

[Felinoid]

If they had gone all the way, they would be more rested, and Celia would have had more time to psychologically and physically prepare for the gang's arrival.

Boy, you have a low opinion on Roy's CON score, don't you? ;)

1. Started after midnight (the first kiss), and the meeting was at daybreak.
2. Who says they only went once? ;D
3. Who says even that once didn't last six hours? :o (Tantric or whatever)

There are plenty of reasons they could have been utterly exhausted come daybreak. And they did have enough time to dress hastily, if not to smuggle Celia out.

But ultimately, if you want to believe that they just made out all night because it gives you a higher opinion of them, more power to you. :) Being happy for Roy and Celia is more important than knowing the "truth". And that goes for all of us who think they hooked up, too. It's more than possible that those of us who are happy they did hook up are the deluded ones. But either way, we're happy for them.

[molonel]

But ultimately, if you want to believe that they just made out all night because it gives you a higher opinion of them, more power to you. :) Being happy for Roy and Celia is more important than knowing the "truth". And that goes for all of us who think they hooked up, too. It's more than possible that those of us who are happy they did hook up are the deluded ones. But either way, we're happy for them.

Wait wait wait - I missed the first part of this discussion.

We're actually arguing about whether or not a frazzled, hidden woman waiting until your friends have left to emerge and straighten herself is indicative of ... sex?

Now THAT is funny.

[Zaruthustran]

Why are people assuming that Roy and Celia had sex at all?

I mean, for one thing, it was their first date! Sure, Roy and Celia might have "just clicked", but it would still be VERY tacky, to say the least.

I think it's charming that there still persists the notion that sex shouldn't happen on the first date.

But ultimately the particulars don't matter. Whether you prefer to think they just held hands, or whether you think they had sex, point is: Roy and Celia hooked up in one form or another. Good for them!

Nice comic, The Giant.

[tee_kay_one]

We're actually arguing about whether or not a frazzled, hidden woman waiting until your friends have left to emerge and straighten herself is indicative of ... sex?

Now THAT is funny.

What's funny about it? I thought they played chess all night. It was an awful shock for me, that people here actually think they had sex. Even typing the evil three letter word hurts my moral standards and all. Please, someone tell me they only had a hearty discussion...

(insert smilie of choice here)

[xyzchyx]

I think it's charming that there still persists the notion that sex shouldn't happen on the first date.

But ultimately the particulars don't matter. Whether you prefer to think they just held hands, or whether you think they had sex, point is: Roy and Celia hooked up in one form or another. Good for them!

Well, I *DO* think that they went a lot further than holding hands... possibly the proverbial "2nd base", or so. Definitely on the way there, as it were.

[saraswati]

Sure, I'm not one of those people who is going to be nasty and say that I don't care what you think. If I don't care what you think there's little point in our having a discussion. :)

Ooops. My bad, Stick. Only the first sentence was directed at you. There was supposed to be a page break line and the rest was just to the everyone else in general, who, actually, may not care :D

Sorry for the seemingly hostile confusion caused by technical difficulties.

Now back to our regularly scheduled discussion.

Perhaps those of us who jump to the assumption that Roy and Celia had sex have dirty minds. I know I do. Show of hands?