Applying E6

[MrNexx]

I had this thought, if I remember correctly, while I was walking out of Barnes and Noble tonight. An absolutely outstanding application of the E6 mechanics would be to the Birthright setting.

First of all, you've got several ways your characters can grow; via feats from the E6 growth, and via bloodline strength, and via political strength. The world itself already assumes a much lower level of magical strength than is common in standard D&D campaigns, so capping it at E6 levels isn't that much of a stretch. For Magicians, bar them from EVERYTHING but Divination and Illusion, but throw in Shadow Evocation and Conjuration at level 3 illusion spells (mimicking 1st-3rd level spells of the Evocation or Conjuration schools, respectively). Bards could maintain their own spell lists, but properly pare them down to enchantments, illusions, and divinations ONLY. Only Sorcerers (using their elven or deific heritage) would be able to be full arcane casters; make additional spell knowledge a blood ability, perhaps, open to Vorynn's and, of course, Azrai's, line.

[Jimp]

the Birthright setting.

Is this an existing setting or an original one? I ask because limiting Magicians (I read: Wizards) to Divination and Illusion until they get 3rd level spells could seriously limit their ability to contribute and survive. However, if the setting's Magician class works differently to the Wizard class then I see no real problem in this.

[Grey Paladin]

My illusionist didn't know a single non illusion spell (well, 1, Flight) until level 9 and I've saved my party's ass more often then the Cleric.

Then again that was a 2E low magic game . .

[Matthew]

Is this an existing setting or an original one? I ask because limiting Magicians (I read: Wizards) to Divination and Illusion until they get 3rd level spells could seriously limit their ability to contribute and survive. However, if the setting's Magician class works differently to the Wizard class then I see no real problem in this.

It is an existing setting. Here is a link to the 3e Update: Birthright

[Draz74]

Is this an existing setting or an original one? I ask because limiting Magicians (I read: Wizards) to Divination and Illusion until they get 3rd level spells could seriously limit their ability to contribute and survive. However, if the setting's Magician class works differently to the Wizard class then I see no real problem in this.

It's an existing setting already. I don't know anything about it except the name, though. Wikipedia probably does.

[Jimp]

It is an existing setting. Here is a link to the 3e Update: Birthright

Cool thanks. Looks like an interesting setting. Must try it some time

[bosssmiley]

Cool thanks. Looks like an interesting setting. Must try it some time

You. Have. No. Idea. quite how spectacularly good "Birthright" is, do you?

Go to paizo.com, get the cheapie pdf download of the campaign setting boxed set and "Blood Enemies: Abominations of Cerelia" ($8 for the two), then gawp at the sheer richness, spectacle and scope of it. Every complaint you've ever heard about 3rd Ed being nothing but dungeon bashes from 1-20? Sorted!

• You want BBEGs?
  Apocalypse (the sentient dying scream of an evil god), Raesene Andu (twisted brother of another god *and* of the setting's Charlemagne-a-like), the Raven (a vengeful something from the Shadow World), the Cold Rider (*squeee!!!*), Rhoubhe Manslayer (ancient elven arch-racist) and The Kraken (note the definite article and the mysterious Sahuagin cultists) should have you covered.
• Cohorts and followers?
  How does an entire kingdom sound ... sire?
• Higher purpose than just beating the dungeon of the week?
  See above.
• High-powered magic?
  Realm spells! A workable system of epic-style magical power available from 1st level!
• Low-powered magic?
  The Magician caster class (a divination/illusion only specialist).
• Setting info?
  Scads, and easy to slot your characters into as well.
• Meta-plot?
  Too juicy to reveal; even spoilered!

I'm going to throw some (3rd Ed. only) players into the Birthright mill for a bit when next I GM. I like to think I know the material well enough to make it fun.

[MrNexx]

You. Have. No. Idea. quite how spectacularly good "Birthright" is, do you?

Since you seem to, what do you think of using E6 for Birthright?

[Matthew]

It's not a bad idea, but why not just play AD&D in Birthright? That's the bit I don't really get. Why go to all the trouble of converting over the clunky rules from 3e, modifying them for E6, and then inserting them into an AD&D Setting? Why not just modify AD&D to your preferences?

[Lord Tataraus]

Sorry if this might be a bit off topic, but what exactly is E6? I vagualy understand that it caps the level at 6, but how? Does any have a link to an official explanation or something? Thanks.

[MrNexx]

*chuckle* Because it struck me as a setting that seemed really well-suited to E6's core concepts?

[bosssmiley]

Since you seem to, what do you think of using E6 for Birthright?

To echo Lord Tataraus, I'd have to ask what E6 is in this context. LNXPLZ?

Google was, if anything, far too helpful when required on the matter (although somehow I don't think it has anything to do with deBeers industrial arm).

Maybe I'll fall back on the old-standby-when-stumped-for-game-ideas of plugging the search string into factbites.com and use the top 3 results it offers as inspiration for a response on adapting Birthright to contemporary D&D.

edit: Have now read up a little on E6

(executive summary: D&D3 with a previous Ed. character power arc. Character progression tops out at level 6, add a new feat from the E6 variant list at every 5,000xp. See here for the full monty, including the interesting "Raising the Stakes" 'players wager cool story elements with the GM' variant).

Adapting "Birthright to the E6 Variant
Eggy's Quick and Lazy Thoughts

textwall and opinionated gabbling spoilered for your viewing convenience

Spoiler

Show

I'd say just port the existing material in more or less as-is, with NPC levels trimmed down (not much trimming needed given AD&D's "12th is high level" ethos and BR's low power entry level) and with the skill names (and appropriate DCs) for domain rule modified to fit the existing 3rd Ed. skill system. Finally! Knowledge(nobility) has a use!

Blood abilities
Probs best to take a few pointers from the "Birthright 3rd Ed" site in making the blood of kings (and the bonus hp, and the (Ex)/(Su) abilities associated with them) into one or two feats. Maybe 1 feat = Tainted Bloodline + the characteristic bloodline power, +1 feat to increase Bloodline to Minor and get another kewl blood ability, then another two feats to get first Major and then Great bloodlines (+ themes power).
-OR-
require a blooded character to take one (and only 1) of the "BR 3rd Ed." Scion levels instead of the initial feat. Build up with feats as above after that.

True bloodlines? Re-unite the Anuirean Empire, defeat the Gorgon and stop the Cold Rider first. Then we'll talk about that...

Magic
Probably restrict non-blooded characters and/or bards to the Magician-style casting suggested in the setting materials. Dual specialist Divination+Illusion with only limited access to other schools.

"Birthright" as a whole was low magic availability ('chandelier o' gear' characters don't fit the source material), but with lots of powerful and iconic items floating about as rare or one-off items. Just stick to the normal WBL charts, add the occasional - quest item plot-hook laden - DM discretion 'magical heirloom' and this should keep to the spirit of the original material.

Tighmaevril
Magical metal that siphons off bloodline power. This is quest object stuff. Only 12 known items made of it exist (and the BBEGs have most of them). The rumored 13th is one of the coolest-sounding, wittiest and unexpected quest items I've ever read in D&D.

Realm Magic
A function of bloodline+caster class as necessary pre-conditions perhaps? IIRC the maximum required CL for these spells was 7 for cool stuff even for the cool stuff like Death Plague, Transportation (100 man teleport via a cool 'road of mists' effect) and Undead Legion.

Definitely not for the bards though. Way too cool a toy for those dilettantes. Err...I mean: they should be out displaying their wit and sophistication by charming the crowned heads of the gameworld and effortlessly lording it over the masses with sheer charisma.

Awnshegh
I. Love. These. Guys!

But they need a little re-work to do them justice. Would suggest re-working some of the Awnsheghs' class levels per the old "3rd Ed update booklet". A lot of the FXX/WXX dual-classed creatures would benefit from being remade as unique templated {insert base race here} gish builds (Rhoubhe, Gorgon, Raven, Serpent, etc.), or as appropriately class-level progressed monsters based on their MM archetype (Sphinx, Hag, Lamia, Harpy, Spider, Chimera, etc.).

Some of the oddballs - like Apocalypse, the Hydra (weird!), Maalvar and the Banshegh might take a teeny bit more work...

As for everything else. Good setting material doesn't date. The only thing that people might whinge on is the lack of aberration (Aboleth, Illithid, etc.) and outsider face-time in the published material. But hey, what do you think has been going on in the off-the-map continent of Aduria?

One mad egg's take. YCWV.

re-edit: Birthright ... geek love ... RISING LIKE GREAT CTHULHU!!!

[Matthew]

Hey! AD&D is contemporary. It's just no longer supported by TSR/Wizards.

Anyway, yeah, E6 basically caps out at Level 6. However, afterwards you gain extra Feats and other minor advancements. I think the longest Threads about it are over on enWorld, but Kiero started a thread about it here as well.

*chuckle* Because it struck me as a setting that seemed really well-suited to E6's core concepts?

I guess... So, do you think it would be more suited than AD&D or less suited? Or is this all just theoretical?

[MrNexx]

E6 is, briefly, the idea of capping level advancement at 6th level... you play normal 3.5 until then... and after that, giving PCs 1 feat per 5000xp earned. It includes a few special feats to make up for the fact that you're not advancing past 6th level (like ones to allow a sorcerer to expand his spell knowledge), and some other options, but it that's the core of the idea.