Grrl Power IV: Constantly Expanded Universe

[Traab]

And im saying that these little factoids ruin nothing unless you want to be unbelievably picky. The idea of aliens press ganging humans to work for them is about as standard a sci fi trope as has ever existed. Forget sci fi, aliens kidnapping humans is something that some people actually believe really happens irl! So why the idea of humans in space is so immersion breaking to you just baffles me. Do you go to star wars forums and declare "THAT DOESNT MAKE SENSE! How do bothans survive on tattoine when the hutts are there spreading slime mold illnesses?! THE ENTIRE CONCEPT OF STAR WARS FAILS!" No, we just assume that in this intergalactic empire/republic, that somebody had the bright idea to figure out a way to handle things so everyone wasnt constantly getting sick and dying whenever they visited another planet without full hazmat gear. They solved it through the scientific field of handwavium and we accepted that. So why is this so different?

[Kantaki]

I mean if Grrl Power is bad for this detail does that mean Star Trek is bad too*?
After all, that one had a half-alien from day one.
TOS had Spock, TNG Troi, VOY Torres...

And how often comes diseases jumping species/how interbreeding work up unless it's part of the plot?

So why is it so bad that Grrl Power is doing something SF stories did since mankind first conceived the concept of Otherworlds?

*Or every other story with half-aliens.

[halfeye]

Alright, now your just being contrary.

You're darn tootin' right, I am totally opposed to the idea of Exact clones of humans arising by random accident everywhere across the galaxy.

The demand for weekly meddling is blown so far out of proportion its not even funny.
Evolution goes -extremely- slow. I believe if you took a caveman and stuffed him into a suit, noone would notice if you dropped him down in the nearest town.

That's right, a newborn cave-baby brought up by the state would be just like every other baby brought up by the state (it would be off topic to mention how badly the state brings up orphans). Evolution works very slowly, but all of the time. The demand for weekly changes to keep everything on track is probably too lenient, you need to keep every species on the planet on the same track, and that's very, very far from trivial.

I dont see any relevance to the rant about what we are related to.

It's a rant for sure, but it's necessary so long as people don't get it.

But this is bashing against a strawman. I dont think there are -anyone- besides you who have suggested it should have happend by accident.

Then you don't think these people said that?

Again not necessarily.

Coyotes, wolf and dogs can interbreed. Humans could be a geologicall recent addition circa 100.000 or so years ago.

Second the Precursors could be advanced enough to calculate evolution trajectories leaving to similarly looking humans everywhere. And/or they change nature/climate enough to ensure similar outcomes on different planets. And/Or they could still be influencing all humanoids, on a level no one, including the Federation (or whatever it is called) comprehend.

Lastly, with gene-modding that available, two genetically or even physically incompatible parent could produce an offspring, even if normally they wouldn't be able to. However that doesn't explain why they made her quadriplegic, though. Maybe it was all the rage back in the day.

I read this guy as saying that multi-origin humans are possible. Maybe that's a misreading?

My money is on some sort of stargate-esque "Most life was seeded by an ancient race" type explanation where we learn that while not all alien races share the same root, an oddly large number do. So aside from evolving slightly differently depending on planet, at their root, a not insignificant portion of the galaxy is genetically similar to humans.

That's peculiar, but I don't think they need to be genetically human.

We've known aliens exist since...

September 10th, 2012.

I don't understand this, and Duck duck go has got nada.

Okay, not a lot of humans are everywhere, but still there seemed to be, perhaps I'm just sensitive,

[DataNinja]

I don't understand this, and Duck duck go has got nada.

September 10, 2012 was the date that This Strip came out, introducing Dabbler as an alien.

[Honest Tiefling]

Oh well. Turns out some humans were just picked up over the years. Alien abductions and all.
But guess we might get an actual explanation for the humanoid thing being so common.

My personal bet is that there's something going on with the Nth tech business, since hints of Sydney and Maxima being so weird keep cropping up. Maybe they don't like bugs and don't want to watch bug aliens evolve, yuck.

Also, if you count a certain TNG episode as being canon, Troi was NOT the result of convergent evolution with humans, but that most races encountered up until then (Not sure if the Delta quadrant aliens were implied to share a similar origin) were actually the result of a precursor race seeding the place left and right. Slight nitpick, I know.

[Kantaki]

Also, if you count a certain TNG episode as being canon, Troi was NOT the result of convergent evolution with humans, but that most races encountered up until then (Not sure if the Delta quadrant aliens were implied to share a similar origin) were actually the result of a precursor race seeding the place left and right. Slight nitpick, I know.

Wasn't Counselor Troi's father human?

[HandofShadows]

Wasn't Counselor Troi's father human?

Yep. Troi is half human, half Betazed. But mixed species have been around is Star Trek since the Original Series in the form of Spock.

[Kantaki]

Yep. Troi is half human, half Betazed. But mixed species have been around is Star Trek since the Original Series in the form of Spock.

I know.
Which is why the precursor thing confused me.
But that's almost always the case when those are involved.

With Ancients and Dead Gods taking the cake with their specific stunts.
Mostly for wiping themselves out.
Seriously, Why?
How far do you have to tank your Wis-Score to fail that badly at being smart?

[Honest Tiefling]

Yep. Troi is half human, half Betazed. But mixed species have been around is Star Trek since the Original Series in the form of Spock.

Yeah, but she got mentioned earlier. I guess Worf was a better example. He's technically related to humanity.

How far do you have to tank your Wis-Score to fail that badly at being smart?

GOING BACK TO ANOTHER STAR TREK EPISODE...Kirk and crew meet a nigh-omnipotent alien. Who turns out to be their equivalent of a toddler who got out. In another one, a baby Q starts wreaking havoc for Picard and company. So maybe really young, incompetant or drunk precursors are responsible for these issues and the other ones just got better things to do than to mop up their messes.

"Oh crap, I dropped the mutagenic crystal when I went to that backwards planet to score! Oh well, what are THEY going to do with it?"...Maybe there's a reason that Earth is a touristy place for these aliens, as being distracted might explain a few poor choices plot wise.

[Kantaki]

So maybe really young, incompetant or drunk precursors are responsible for these issues and the other ones just got better things to do than to mop up their messes.

I mean managing to wipe yourself out is a pretty impressive feat of idiocy.
And no, ascension doesn't count for survival.
Especially if you leave your mess behind.

[Dragonus45]

If we are talking about realistic worlds? Congratulations. You are the willing recipient of one/or more SPACE PLAGUE. At best, you can never return to Earth (hope you said your goodbyes). At worst, you will die of alien pathogen thinking you are space furry, causing horrible painful skin blisters, while your every hair burning like a thousand suns.

But this is GRRRLPOWER!! Technology is Magic!

No, magic is pretty clearly magic in universe. Science is SCIENCE!!!

[-D-]

And im saying that these little factoids ruin nothing unless you want to be unbelievably picky.

All good stories are like magic tricks. They guide your attention from one point to another, counting on your lack of focus to not notice the trick.

What writer here is doing is basically doing a trick while yelling LOOK AT ME AND DON'T LOOK AT THIS HAND, THAT DEFINITELY DOESN'T HAVE A BALL BEHIND IT.

For me, it kinda ruins the enjoyment.

Do you go to star wars forums and declare "THAT DOESNT MAKE SENSE! How do bothans survive on tattoine when the hutts are there spreading slime mold illnesses?!

So why is this so different?

What's different is that George didn't have a conference about Bothan survival rates on Tattoine.

I was Ok with succubus, alien, fey-sheep hybrid (aka Dabbler). But when you want to explain how that ancestry works in terms of DNA, all the while not Really thinking it through? I'm gonna call it out.

I mean if Grrl Power is bad for this detail does that mean Star Trek is bad too*?
After all, that one had a half-alien from day one.
TOS had Spock, TNG Troi, VOY Torres...

*Or every other story with half-aliens.

Looks like someone doesn't know his Star Trek lore. Ancient humanoids all seeded primitive worlds by calculating how life would develop. Basically they could predict lottery based on color of the Petunias on Alpha Centauri.

And diseases weren't a huge issue for the Star Trek crew, since transporter can filter out any diseases you carried. Pretty sure they solved some issue like that in an episode.

I read this guy as saying that multi-origin humans are possible. Maybe that's a misreading

My interpretation is as follows. In setting with Hyper-Space Science and Fukin' Magic, Multi-origin humans can be justified. Evolution is fact of our world, not necessarily theirs.

But Dave's grasp of subject matter is quite lacking. It's very flawed and surface level.

There are genemods, but Kora is quadriplegic.

There is alien/human interbreeding, but that's never elaborated on. And its consequences like human/alien plagues and quarantine aren't considered.

There are magitek races, but they only care about FTL.

[Kantaki]

Looks like someone doesn't know his Star Trek lore. Ancient humanoids all seeded primitive worlds by calculating how life would develop. Basically they could predict lottery based on color of the Petunias on Alpha Centauri.

And diseases weren't a huge issue for the Star Trek crew, since transporter can filter out any diseases you carried. Pretty sure they solved some issue like that in an episode.

Right. And those precursors were already established when they introduced Half-humans?
Because as far as I know Spock's heritage (and Troi's for that matter) were a thing before that weird treasure hunt episode.

So, how is Star Trek better at this again?
Because it's old enough that one never mentioned again episode covered it?
Long after they introduced the first half-alien?

Then Grrl Power has until the inevitable TNG equivalent to give it's answer how it works.

Also, for all we know they have ways to prevent those diseases in the Grrl Power verse.
We're going to find out when it becomes relevant for the plot.
Like in Star Trek.

[HandofShadows]

There are genemods, but Kora is quadriplegic.

There is alien/human interbreeding, but that's never elaborated on. And its consequences like human/alien plagues and quarantine aren't considered.

Genes are not all that makes up a person. Environment plays a part as well. It's also possible that the gene mods had a rare and unforeseen side affect. As for human alien plagues, right now there is a lot real world research into making improvements to the immune system of human beings. It's logical that other races will likely do something similar. There's not going to be a "space plague" because everyone's immune system is ramped up to be much better than a Terran Shark and prevents it. Not to mention humanity is out there and their biology is in file, so if there was something that might spread to humanity, they would have know about it for a couple hundred years already and take logical steps to prevent it.

And the reason you may not see anything in the comic about this is because it's boring and off the main subject of the story. This is a story about superheros, not a paper on worldbuilding and all the possible effects of humans and aliens breeding.

There are magitek races, but they only care about FTL.

I have NO clue as to where you got this as we have seen only one example of a magitek race and their main represented has a fixation with blood, not FTL.

[Traab]

If I remember correctly, cora wasnt born to a family that could afford the best. I get the feeling she basically got the free healthcare cheapest option which was a limb suit without much else to work with until she bumped into dabbler and got upgraded. Even in star trek there are colony worlds where they arent as advanced or dont have full access to everything awesome the enterprise crew is capable of doing. Yep here we go.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Actually, Cora isn't a quadriplegic person. What she has instead is a serious birth defect (actually, a series of them) that reduced her limbs to vestigial fins (I don't remember the technical term). It's probably easier to consider her a multiple amputee.

[-D-]

Looks like someone doesn't know his Star Trek lore. Ancient humanoids all seeded primitive worlds by calculating how life would develop. Basically, they could predict lottery based on the color of the Petunias on Alpha Centauri.

And diseases weren't a huge issue for the Star Trek crew since transporter can filter out any diseases you carried. Pretty sure they solved some issue like that in an episode

Right. And those precursors were already established when they introduced Half-humans?

No, but, they are specifically having an episode, that's blatantly trying to deal with it - Cora is a human, lots of aliens are humanoid. My point is, this is GRRLPOWER's "The Chase".

Look, as I said whenever you read/watch/experience a piece of fiction there are going to be bigger/smaller inconsistencies. A good magician writer will guide your attention away from those inconsistencies. I'm not bothered by the existence of the Force in Star Wars, but I'm definitely bothered by the existence of the Force in Star Trek (heyo Star Trek: Discovery!).
Because I accept that each Science Fiction (or Fantasy) work comes with its slew of impossible things.

For ST it's there are humans and genetically compatible humanoid aliens, FTL and hyper advanced science. I'd hate if someone were to add force to Star Trek (yes, I'm looking at ST:D)
For SW there are humans, humanoid aliens, oh and space samurai wizards. I'd hate if someone were to try to explain in scientific terms the mystical Force that courses through every living being (hi, Midichlorians).
For GrrlPower, there are humans, aliens, demons, an alien-human-succubus, all myths are real and magic exist. I'd really hate it if someone would try to explain aliens and humanoid aliens in scientific terms. Why? Cause you put me in an analytical mood, and in doing so broke my suspension of disbelief. So sure, Cora explained aliens, but what about Demons, Wizards, and Time-witches? How do they all fit? Is God an alien? Are Demons alternative earth aliens, etc.

. As for human alien plagues, right now there is a lot real world research into making improvements to the immune system of human beings. It's logical that other races will likely do something similar. There's not going to be a "space plague" because everyone's immune system is ramped up to be much better than a Terran Shark and prevents it. Not to mention humanity is out there and their biology is in file, so if there was something that might spread to humanity, they would have know about it for a couple hundred years already and take logical steps to prevent it.

And the reason you may not see anything in the comic about this is because it's boring and off the main subject of the story. This is a story about superheros, not a paper on worldbuilding and all the possible effects of humans and aliens breeding.

That research is fun. However, that only makes that scenario ever darker. No immune system is perfect. Diseases adapt.

You with your Shark Immune system now carry Shark Quality Cold, that can kill a non-modded human. Good news everyone, you've perfected the plague.

The only possible solution is that they have something that basically checks and removes all of your pathogens.

I have NO clue as to where you got this as we have seen only one example of a magitek race and their main represented has a fixation with blood, not FTL.

We have Federation (whatever Cora is in), right? And Federation dealt with Magitek races, right? Yet, Federation only mentions they don't sell FTL tech to non-FTL tech races? What about Magitech, that isn't related to FTL?

[HandofShadows]

That research is fun. However, that only makes that scenario ever darker. No immune system is perfect. Diseases adapt.

You with your Shark Immune system now carry Shark Quality Cold, that can kill a non-modded human. Good news everyone, you've perfected the plague.

The only possible solution is that they have something that basically checks and removes all of your pathogens.

Or they have standard medical scans in place at entrances and gates. You do remember there are gates on that big station that lead directly to Earth, right?

We have Federation (whatever Cora is in), right? And Federation dealt with Magitek races, right? Yet, Federation only mentions they don't sell FTL tech to non-FTL tech races? What about Magitech, that isn't related to FTL?

They talk about FTL here, but that's just one of the things they won't sell. See This Page.

[-D-]

Or they have standard medical scans in place at entrances and gates. You do remember there are gates on that big station that lead directly to Earth, right?

You mean the one Sydney bypassed? Standard medical scans probably don't work. Why? Because you are more than an assembly of only your genes. There are funghi and bacteria that are inside of you that are essential for your life and wellbeing. How exactly will medical scans differentiated a pathogen from useful bacteria for hundreds, nay millions of different species? In ST they could do it because they had literally hundreds of scans of you at various points in life. Not to mention a latent virus is near impossible to check for, since it's asymptomatic, which is nothing compared to ancient viral DNA, that hides in your own DNA. Or the fact that what's beneficial bacteria for you, could potentially be just a harmful bacteria for someone else.

But even if it was. My problem was
A) Dave didn't think this through,
B) and we didn't need to have this conversation if writer just skipped over the specific

Disease thing is merely an example.

[Keltest]

You mean the one Sydney bypassed? Standard medical scans probably don't work. Why? Because you are more than an assembly of only your genes. There are funghi and bacteria that are inside of you that are essential for your life and wellbeing. How exactly will medical scans differentiated a pathogen from useful bacteria for hundreds, nay millions of different species? In ST they could do it because they had literally hundreds of scans of you at various points in life. Not to mention a latent virus is near impossible to check for, since it's asymptomatic, which is nothing compared to ancient viral DNA, that hides in your own DNA. Or the fact that what's beneficial bacteria for you, could potentially be just a harmful bacteria for someone else.

But even if it was. My problem was
A) Dave didn't think this through,
B) and we didn't need to have this conversation if writer just skipped over the specific

Disease thing is merely an example.

"The specific"? The explanation is literally "aliens did it". A detail-rich examination that is not.

[Traab]

"The specific"? The explanation is literally "aliens did it". A detail-rich examination that is not.

Yeah most of these arguments are actually against explanations WE have been coming up with like "Why are so many species so close to human in the galaxy?" or "How do they handle diseases?" Dave hasnt really explained any of it.

[-D-]

"The specific"? The explanation is literally "aliens did it". A detail-rich examination that is not.

Well, not exactly. We don't know why Frix is a furry humanoid. He could be part human, but why are most of aliens part human? Are humans that slutty?

You know what we also could be doing? Watching Sydney blow up stuff and have Ariana tell us of the nightmare the conference has been. And honestly, I would prefer that to this.

[Kantaki]

Well, not exactly. We don't know why Frix is a furry humanoid. He could be part human, but why are most of aliens part human? Are humans that slutty?

Is that a serious question?
I mean, a large part of humanity having Neanderthal DNA (among others) should be proof of that.

And don't give be „But Neanderthals were human too”.
They weren't homo sapiens sapiens is my point.
It still shows that we as a species are perfectly willing to seek partners outside the same.

Plus, you know, the fact that the whole idea of non-human spouses is as old as the ability to tell stories should prove that humans ain't picky just as much.

[Keltest]

Is that a serious question?
I mean, a large part of humanity having Neanderthal DNA (among others) should be proof of that.

And don't give be „But Neanderthals were human too”.
They weren't homo sapiens sapiens is my point.
It still shows that we as a species are perfectly willing to seek partners outside the same.

Plus, you know, the fact that the whole idea of non-human spouses is as old as the ability to tell stories should prove that humans ain't picky just as much.

To say nothing of the fact that reaching space basically requires tool use, which requires hands or an equivalent. A humanoid shape is well suited for reaching space, as opposed to, say, a sapient ball of slime.

[-D-]

To say nothing of the fact that reaching space basically requires tool use, which requires hands or an equivalent. A humanoid shape is well suited for reaching space, as opposed to, say, a sapient ball of slime.

Nothing about tool use implies hands. Magpies and Octopi demonstrate tool usage (without any hands).

Especially in setting with magic. Hell, you could have a psionic ball of slime that manipulates everything telekinetically. Nothing about humanoid shape is good about reaching space, if it was, we wouldn't need to have giant metal containers to go into space. Hell, I give space-faring slime better space survivability than humans.

Is that a serious question?
I mean, a large part of humanity having Neanderthal DNA (among others) should be proof of that.

And don't give be „But Neanderthals were human too”.
They weren't homo sapiens sapiens is my point.
It still shows that we as a species are perfectly willing to seek partners outside the same.

Plus, you know, the fact that the whole idea of non-human spouses is as old as the ability to tell stories should prove that humans ain't picky just as much.

I didn't meant sluttier than a dingo, I meant sluttier than a succubus.

In a setting with literal semen demons tantric demons (i.e. creatures that literally feed on sex), you telling me humans are the absolute most spread out form? When did they start kidnapping humans? Thousand of years ago? Eons ago? Did aliens kidnap primitive cavemen? Did kidnapped humans all had sexual drives of several Zeuses Deuses? I mean they spread so far, that the xenophobic magitek Alari are human-shaped. And if I recall correctly, Alari are an ancient civilization.

[Kantaki]

I didn't meant sluttier than a dingo, I meant sluttier than a succubus.

In a setting with literal semen demons tantric demons (i.e. creatures that literally feed on sex), you telling me humans are the absolute most spread out form? When did they start kidnapping humans? Thousand of years ago? Eons ago? Did aliens kidnap primitive cavemen? Did kidnapped humans all had sexual drives of several Zeuses Deuses? I mean they spread so far, that the xenophobic magitek Alari are human-shaped. And if I recall correctly, Alari are an ancient civilization.

I mean, succubi are roughly humanoid, no?
And the answer is still yes.
All those stories about fae-spouses exist for a reason.

Also, seeing that magic is a thing, maybe early aliens, humans and outsiders met by traveling into other worlds via magic rituals, leyline nexi or (super)natural astria porta.
You know, the walk through two trees forming a doorway and you end in a fae-realm, a Otherworld thing?

So, early people from various worlds and dimensions meet, fool around (potentially with some sort of assistance) and the result is compatibility and a roughly similar anatomy.
In short, Alien Magi did it.

[-D-]

I mean, succubi are roughly humanoid, no?
And the answer is still yes.
All those stories about fae-spouses exist for a reason.

My pet theory is that succubus don't look humanoid, we look succubus-like. It would explain all the boning.

Yeah. I went Timelord on that question.

But let's see what Dave comes up with.

[Radar]

My pet theory is that succubus don't look humanoid, we look succubus-like. It would explain all the boning.

Yeah. I went Timelord on that question.

But let's see what Dave comes up with.

It is an interesting possibility. We can also consider the panspermia hypothesis, which might not result in lots of humanoidal aliens (unless indeed there is a convergent trend for inteligent, tool-using beings to be humanoidal), but at least it would explain compatible biochemistry: breathing the same kind of air, being able to digest the same food (or at least there is enough of an overlap to get some nourishment out of it). And there would be no possibility of mixing and matching heritages, if we all did not have DNA and the same cellular structure at the very least. We might still slap on "alien wizards did it" (I like this combination), but at least they would have less work to do.

There is also another interesting argument, why it all works, but I might not be eloquent enough to explain it, so I have to simply put a ilnk here.

[Rogar Demonblud]

I mean, succubi are roughly humanoid, no?

Nope. They're large slimy leeches that latch onto you and suck out your soul. They just use lies and illusions to look like something else. The disguises aren't even particularly attractive, because that gets you noticed and interferes with sucking out someone's soul and consigning it to Perdition for eternity.

How we twisted this bit of medieval theology into the current concept of a succubus would probably make a good doctoral thesis.

[DeTess]

How we twisted this bit of medieval theology into the current concept of a succubus would probably make a good doctoral thesis.

Citation needed? A quick check on wikipedia suggests that succubi in their 'current' from have been around since the 15th century at the least, if not earlier.