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  1. - Top - End - #1
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    Default Falchion, how useful?

    I have a character using a Falchion. My strategy revolves around hitting a lot of people, Great Cleave, Weapon Specialization and most importantly Improved Critical (considering it lowers my critical range to, 15?), are my main feats in the arsenal.
    How good would you say this strategy works out? Also, do you have any tips on strategy?

    Feel free to discuss the weapon and how it compares to other weapons.
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    Default Re: Falchion, how useful?

    I think they look pretty damn cool.
    Yet, my PHB is not to hand, so I cannot comment otherwise.
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    Default Re: Falchion, how useful?

    Weirdly, I was just reading a thread on the Wizards boards where someone did a mathematical breakdown of falchion vs. greatsword. With keen/improved crit., the falchion wielder needs 38 bonus damage to keep pace with the greatsword wielder. Difficult, but not impossible to get.
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    Default Re: Falchion, how useful?

    The real reason that falchions fall well below greatswords or greataxes in the grand scheme of things is that so many things at high levels (and some at low) are simply immune to criticals, meaning that additional range of crits is meaningless and the additional average damage the greatsword or greataxe deals means they pull out ahead.

    I personally like falchions, both the heavy scimitar in the PHB and the historical, one handed falchion. I tend to use them a lot. But I don't pretend they're superior to the other offerings out there.
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    Default Re: Falchion, how useful?

    Mechanical comparisons to greatswords aside, I like it. Greatswords strike me as the "civilized barbarian's" weapon - a huge honking hunk of metal with which to hew through one's foes, but it's still an actual sword. I associate falchions with weapons similar to the two-handed weapons that the orcs were using in the Lord of the Rings movies, very rough, but lots of bladeyness - perfect for use as a giant cleaving chunk of metal, less damage due to the roughness, but so many jagged edges make it far more likely you'll hack into someone's vitals.
    Last edited by Quietus; 2007-09-09 at 07:08 AM.
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    Default Re: Falchion, how useful?

    Greatsword is technically better, but then again, I'd say GS is slightly above the curve anyway. There's a reason everyone takes it, after all.

    The falchion is a pretty cool weapon though, and not much worse than the greatsword. If you like a change of pace, or need a different weapon for flavor reasons I highly recommend it.

    Improved critical is the real kicker for Falchion, but keep in mind that you can only get it at a relatively high level (unless you can score a quick Keen enchantment). Estimated character level are things you might want to keep in mind when making your choice.

    Right out of the box though, the Falchion deals 2 damage less than the greatsword, but criticals 1/20 more.
    Yeah, pretty bad tradeoff.
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    Default Re: Falchion, how useful?

    There is another specific instance when the falchion has the best chance for down right awesomeness. And that is when using the relatively broken tome of battle. A chaotic crusader in a certain stance can reroll and add all max damage dice. Especially with imp crit on a falchion, that's a chance for some massive damage. Also, I concur that the falchion is just cool in general.
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    Default Re: Falchion, how useful?

    In my campaigns, I allow the falchion to be weapon finessed, to try and attract players into using it. I also see the falchion to be more of an elegant weapon than savage. Looks like a flourish-y weapon to me..

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    Default Re: Falchion, how useful?

    I might go with a keen falchion instead of spending a feat on improved critical -- you should be able to afford it by the time your BAB gets high enough for you to qualify for improved crit.

    Great Cleave is great against mooks, but once you start facing opponents that you can't drop with one swing, its utility is greatly reduced. It also ties up three feats, which is less of a problem for a fighter, but if you are another PC class, feat scarcity could be an issue.

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    Default Re: Falchion, how useful?

    its a misconseption that tome of battle is broken, there is nothing in there thats more powerfull than what you can find in the core books.

    that aside, i would replace great cleave if i were you, its usualy a waste of time, only good when you are in melee combat with hordes of very weak opponents you can take down in hit.
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    Default Re: Falchion, how useful?

    At very very very high levels (probably epic, although builds with cheesily high Strength scores can also qualify) the falchion becomes better than the greatsword, since the extra damage from a multiplied critical becomes so huge as to make the difference between 2d4 and 2d6 not very important. I think that's the 38 number that Dhavaer was quoting.

    But for 95% of games, the greatsword's higher base damage makes it a better general weapon. On the other hand, there's something to be said for a bit of variety. It gets a little dull when every single fighter is using the same weapon.

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    Default Re: Falchion, how useful?

    Correct. Great cleave is rarely all that useful. Depending on your meta it could be awesome though, if your DM loves to throw mooks at you.

    However...hordes of enemies aren't all that frequent because it makes for long combat rounds, lots of rolling and lots of modifiers you have to keep track of (for example, after a slow, a glitterdust and a grease, try to keep note who is affected by which effect and how they may even affect each other).

    Great cleave requires you to consistently kill more than two enemies in a single round. That's not very likely.
    If it is the case however, chances are you'd win the battle easily anyway.

    Alternatively, if they can be cleaved so easily, why doesn't the wizard just cast fireball? He'll have enough spell slots anyway, and you can spend your feat on something better. Preferably something that works well against bosses, rather than increase your skill at what, killing mooks? Seriously.
    Verdict: Weak effect with a very narrow application.
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    Default Re: Falchion, how useful?

    Quote Originally Posted by Akennedy View Post
    In my campaigns, I allow the falchion to be weapon finessed, to try and attract players into using it. I also see the falchion to be more of an elegant weapon than savage. Looks like a flourish-y weapon to me..
    I think it would be kinda broken. There are weapons that are one or two handed (power attack) and can be used with weapon finesse. But they are exotic, just for that reason.

    I have always seen "enchanced crit" as stronger than others. At slighty higher levels with greatsword you have possible 1-4 damage, but with keen falchion you have really often x2 attacks.

    falchion to be more of an elegant weapon than savage.
    Dunno, there were historical "falchion like" weapons, some guys are even doing them for sale, and there is nothing especially elegant in them. Devastating cuts, but of course handling and versality worse than "classic" straight blades.

    From some reason there is common assumtion that everything that is curved or eastern must be more finesse, fast and generally "kung fu kapoof".
    Last edited by Spiryt; 2007-09-09 at 08:12 AM.
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    Default Re: Falchion, how useful?

    The Falchion is a savage and burtal, but relatively effective weapon - I like it, and besides, losing 2 damage might be a hassle, but due to all kinds of damage boni abounding, not a tragedy. And you still have good crits......

    In fact, if you use Travesty of Blades (ToB), your class features make base damage almost a non-issue.
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    Default Re: Falchion, how useful?

    Falchions are pretty decent considering they have a 25% critical chance with the Improved Critical feat.
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    Default Re: Falchion, how useful?

    Quote Originally Posted by PlatinumJester View Post
    Falchions are pretty decent considering they have a 25% critical chance with the Improved Critical feat.
    [nitpick] Well, 30%... 15, 16, 17, 18, 19 and 20. So, 6 numbers, 5% each.. 6*5% = 30% [/nitpick]
    Last edited by Akennedy; 2007-09-09 at 09:36 AM.

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    Default Re: Falchion, how useful?

    Falchion I had a paladin wield 1, he got a +1 to attack and damage for favored weapon, so was all good.

    but anyways if yo try to compare weapons to different ones everyones going to be using the greatsword, so care about the fluff more than crunch for weapons.

    I see Falchion more as a middle eastern weapon, I also wished they were finnessible, and able to use 1 handed(with a feat)
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    Default Re: Falchion, how useful?

    Quote Originally Posted by de-trick View Post

    I see Falchion more as a middle eastern weapon, I also wished they were finnessible, and able to use 1 handed(with a feat)
    One handed falchion is called a scimitar...
    Last edited by Spiryt; 2007-09-09 at 09:55 AM.
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    Default Re: Falchion, how useful?

    Hmmm..... It would seem that great cleave won't do me much good.... What about normal Cleave? Would it be better to keep that or toss it as well?
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    Default Re: Falchion, how useful?

    Well, great cleave is going to be rarely any good, most experienced players also keep saying that Weapon Specialisation is a waste of feat.

    I don't know what books does your GM allow/have, but things like this would be more practical than Greater Cleave, even if no so good. Also Improved Trip is almost always good, aditional attacks against prone opponent, with so much critical chance...
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    Default Re: Falchion, how useful?

    Historically, falchions were essentially slightly over-sized meat cleavers, machetes, or butcher's knives. They're definitely not finessable, as they were designed to be heavy (They usually weighed about 2 pounds). Also, they were one-handed. Then again, this is DnD we're talking about, where drowning restores you to a stable condition if you're dying.

    In an attempt to stay on topic, I'd say the weapon specializtion feats dpend on how nice your DM is. If he is, then you're sure to get a nifty falchion. If he's not, you might not even see a regular one during the campaign. Also, If you think you're going up against alot of humanoids, I suggest (DC 14) that you get either improved trip or improved disarm.
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    Default Re: Falchion, how useful?

    Quote Originally Posted by Conners View Post
    Hmmm..... It would seem that great cleave won't do me much good.... What about normal Cleave? Would it be better to keep that or toss it as well?
    Cleave is good because you weill always eventually drop a creature with damage, this gives you an extra attack when you finish off a creature. Great Cleave isn't as useful because you would need to finish off your next opponent with a single shot of the cleave attack.

    I think that there needs to be an agreement between the players and the DM as to the nature of the adventures. In theory, the PC's should be able to reject plot hooks that wouldn't be favorable for the characters. Thus, if a PC loads up on some technique/specialty, it stands to reason that they'll go for that sort of adventure. Whereas, if the DM decides to screw the PC and not provide a situation where that PC can shine, don't be surprised when the Player feels unsatisfied or rejects the plot hook.

    That cuts the other direction too. If a PC over specializes, don't be surprised if your specialty doesn't come up naturally, or you have to actively seek out adventures to fill your role.

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    Default Re: Falchion, how useful?

    Well, my old DM house-ruled that any two handed weapon should be able to be one handed with the exotic weapon proficiency, not just the bastard sword and dwarven waraxe. I didn't care for it, but then when DM duty shifted he played a fighter with two Falchions who crit so much that it wasn't even a game any more. Once DM status shifted to me, that rule was revoked after great debate.

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    Default Re: Falchion, how useful?

    Any chance of you using a large or larger falchion? That would be super hurty. Combine that with charge-based feats and you have a potential for lots of damage!

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    Default Re: Falchion, how useful?

    In the grand scheme of things...

    the 2 possible max damage ye get from a Greatsword is not something to write home about. When it gets down to it... ye can always find things to crit, or help with critting.

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    If ye are a 4th level fighter, or a 6th level warblade, ye can take Weapon Spec, if ye are so inclined (I would be aiming towards melee weapon Mastery [slashing] at that point anyway).

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    Default Re: Falchion, how useful?

    Quote Originally Posted by Akennedy View Post
    In my campaigns, I allow the falchion to be weapon finessed, to try and attract players into using it. I also see the falchion to be more of an elegant weapon than savage. Looks like a flourish-y weapon to me..
    Quote Originally Posted by Spiryt View Post
    Dunno, there were historical "falchion like" weapons, some guys are even doing them for sale, and there is nothing especially elegant in them. Devastating cuts, but of course handling and versality worse than "classic" straight blades.

    From some reason there is common assumtion that everything that is curved or eastern must be more finesse, fast and generally "kung fu kapoof".
    Quote Originally Posted by Dullyanna View Post
    Historically, falchions were essentially slightly over-sized meat cleavers, machetes, or butcher's knives. They're definitely not finessable, as they were designed to be heavy (They usually weighed about 2 pounds). Also, they were one-handed. Then again, this is DnD we're talking about, where drowning restores you to a stable condition if you're dying.
    A lot depends on what you think a D&D Falchion is supposed to represent in the 'real' world. The design mentality behind 3e was to explicitly not create weapons with exact real world equivalents, but to some degree there are always going to be similarities (particularly when they use 'real world' terminology).

    The difference between a straight blade and curved blade tends to be exaggerated. One is not intrinsically more 'finessable' than the other; a curved blade will generally chop better and a straight blade will generally thrust better, but the difference is not very great.

    A D&D Falchion can be a big meat cleaver type thing or it can be an elegantly balanced blade, it doesn't really matter, but I wouldn't recommend equating any D&D Weapon with an exact real world equivalent. In D&D, a Falchion is a designation for a Two Handed Single Edged Sword.

    I imagine it looking something like this: The Knecht
    Last edited by Matthew; 2007-09-09 at 11:42 AM.
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    Default Re: Falchion, how useful?

    I gather that the numbers are better on a Keen Greatsword than a Keen Falchion...but I have a question.

    What if, thanks to a rather obscure Prestige Class, I could automatically confirm all crits, explicitly including with weapons modified by Keen or Improved Crit?* How does this change the math? Is a Greatsword still mechanically better?

    *Actually, this only works on Smite Evil attacks, but I'm curious in the abstract. And if you're curious where this is coming from, it's the Fist of Raziel from the BoED.
    Last edited by Nerd-o-rama; 2007-09-09 at 11:43 AM.
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    Default Re: Falchion, how useful?

    I did a lot of Maths to work this out once, but I think Yakk and Peregrine came up with a better formula for it. Here's some basic stuff:

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    [Normal Number of Hits x Average Damage] + [Unconfirmed Critical Hits x Average Damage] + [Confirmed Critical Hits x (Average Damage x Multiplier)

    1.
    1D10 20/x4 [(360 x 5.5 = 1,980) + (1 x 5.5 = 5.5) + (19 x 22 = 418)] = 2,403.5
    1D12 20/x3 [(360 x 6.5 = 2,340) + (1 x 6.5 = 6.5) + (19 x 19.5 = 370.5)] = 2,717
    1D12 19-20/x2 [(340 x 6.5 = 2,210) + (2 x 6.5 = 13) + (38 x 13 = 494)] = 2,717
    1D10 18-20/x2 [(320 x 5.5 = 1,760) + (3 x 5.5 = 16.5) + (57 x 11 = 627)] = 2,403.5

    2.
    1D10 20/x4 [(360 x 5.5 = 1,980) + (1 x 5.5 = 5.5) + (19 x 22 = 418)] = 2,403.5
    1D12 20/x3 [(360 x 6.5 = 2,340) + (1 x 6.5 = 6.5) + (19 x 19.5 = 370.5)] = 2,717
    1D12 19-20/x2 [(340 x 6.5 = 2,210) + (2 x 6.5 = 13) + (38 x 13 = 494)] = 2,717
    1D10 18-20/x2 [(320 x 5.5 = 1,760) + (3 x 5.5 = 16.5) + (57 x 11 = 627)] = 2,403.5

    3.
    1D10 20/x4 [(340 x 5.5 = 1,870) + (2 x 5.5 = 11) + (18 x 22 = 396)] = 2,277
    1D12 20/x3 [(340 x 6.5 = 2,210) + (2 x 6.5 = 13) + (18 x 19.5 = 351)] = 2,574
    1D12 19-20/x2 [(320 x 6.5 = 2,080) + (4 x 6.5 = 26) + (36 x 13 = 468)] = 2,574
    1D10 18-20/x2 [(300 x 5.5 = 1,650) + (6 x 5.5 = 33) + (54 x 11 = 594)] = 2,277

    4.
    1D10 20/x4 [(320 x 5.5 = 1,760) + (3 x 5.5 = 16.5) + (17 x 22 = 374)] = 2,150.5
    1D12 20/x3 [(320 x 6.5 = 2,080) + (3 x 6.5 = 19.5) + (17 x 19.5 = 331.5)] = 2,431
    1D12 19-20/x2 [(300 x 6.5 = 1,950) + (6 x 6.5 = 39) + (34 x 13 = 442)] = 2,431
    1D10 18-20/x2 [(280 x 5.5 = 1,540) + (9 x 5.5 = 49.5) + (51 x 11 = 561)] = 2,150.5

    5.
    1D10 20/x4 [(300 x 5.5 = 1,650) + (4 x 5.5 = 22) + (16 x 22 = 352)] = 2,024
    1D12 20/x3 [(300 x 6.5 = 1,950) + (4 x 6.5 = 26) + (16 x 19.5 = 312)] = 2,288
    1D12 19-20/x2 [(280 x 6.5 = 1,820) + (8 x 6.5 = 52) + (32 x 13 = 416)] = 2,288
    1D10 18-20/x2 [(260 x 5.5 = 1,430) + (12 x 5.5 = 66) + (48 x 11 = 528)] = 2,024

    6.
    1D10 20/x4 [(280 x 5.5 = 1,540) + (5 x 5.5 = 27.5) + (15 x 22 = 330)] = 1,897.5
    1D12 20/x3 [(280 x 6.5 = 1,820) + (5 x 6.5 = 32.5) + (15 x 19.5 = 292.5)] = 2,145
    1D12 19-20/x2 [(260 x 6.5 = 1,690) + (10 x 6.5 = 65) + (30 x 13 = 390)] = 2,145
    1D10 18-20/x2 [(240 x 5.5 = 1,320) + (15 x 5.5 = 82.5) + (45 x 11 = 495)] = 1,897.5

    7.
    1D10 20/x4 [(260 x 5.5 = 1,430) + (6 x 5.5 = 33) + (14 x 22 = 308)] = 1,771
    1D12 20/x3 [(260 x 6.5 = 1,690) + (6 x 6.5 = 39) + (14 x 19.5 = 273)] = 2,002
    1D12 19-20/x2 [(240 x 6.5 = 1,560) + (12 x 6.5 = 78) + (28 x 13 = 364)] = 2,002
    1D10 18-20/x2 [(220 x 5.5 = 1,210) + (18 x 5.5 = 99) + (42 x 11 = 462)] = 1,771

    8.
    1D10 20/x4 [(240 x 5.5 = 1,320) + (7 x 5.5 = 38.5) + (13 x 22 = 286)] = 1644.5
    1D12 20/x3 [(240 x 6.5 = 1,560) + (7 x 6.5 = 45.5) + (13 x 19.5 = 253.5)] = 1,859
    1D12 19-20/x2 [(220 x 6.5 = 1,430) + (14 x 6.5 = 91) + (26 x 13 = 338)] = 1,859
    1D10 18-20/x2 [(200 x 5.5 = 1,100) + (21 x 5.5 = 115.5) + (39 x 11 = 429)] = 1,644.5

    9.
    1D10 20/x4 [(220 x 5.5 = 1,210) + (8 x 5.5 = 44) + (12 x 22 = 264)] = 1,518
    1D12 20/x3 [(220 x 6.5 = 1,430) + (8 x 6.5 = 52) + (12 x 19.5 = 234)] = 1,716
    1D12 19-20/x2 [(200 x 6.5 = 1,300) + (16 x 6.5 = 104) + (24 x 13 = 312)] = 1,716
    1D10 18-20/x2 [(180 x 5.5 = 990) + (24 x 5.5 = 132) + (36 x 11 = 396)] = 1,518

    10.
    1D10 20/x4 [(200 x 5.5 = 1,100) + (9 x 5.5 = 49.5) + (11 x 22 = 242)] = 1,391.5
    1D12 20/x3 [(200 x 6.5 = 1,300) + (9 x 6.5 = 58.5) + (11 x 19.5 = 214.5)] = 1,573
    1D12 19-20/x2 [(180 x 6.5 = 1,170) + (18 x 6.5 = 117) + (22 x 13 = 286)] = 1,573
    1D10 18-20/x2 [(160 x 5.5 = 880) + (27 x 5.5 = 148.5) + (33 x 11 = 363)] = 1,391.5

    11.
    1D10 20/x4 [(180 x 5.5 = 990) + (10 x 5.5 = 55) + (10 x 22 = 220)] = 1,265
    1D12 20/x3 [(180 x 6.5 = 1170) + (10 x 6.5 = 65) + (10 x 19.5 = 195)] = 1,430
    1D12 19-20/x2 [(160 x 6.5 = 1040) + (20 x 6.5 = 130) + (20 x 13 = 260)] = 1,430
    1D10 18-20/x2 [(140 x 5.5 = 770) + (30 x 5.5 = 165) + (30 x 11 = 330)] = 1,265

    12.
    1D10 20/x4 [(160 x 5.5 = 880) + (11 x 5.5 = 60.5) + (9 x 22 = 198)] = 1,138.5
    1D12 20/x3 [(160 x 6.5 = 1,040) + (11 x 6.5 = 71.5) + (9 x 19.5 = 175.5)] = 1,287
    1D12 19-20/x2 [(140 x 6.5 = 910) + (22 x 6.5 = 143) + (18 x 13 = 234)] = 1,287
    1D10 18-20/x2 [(120 x 5.5 = 660) + (33 x 5.5 = 181.5) + (27 x 11 = 297)] = 1138.5

    13.
    1D10 20/x4 [(140 x 5.5 = 770) + (12 x 5.5 = 66) + (8 x 22 = 176)] = 1,012
    1D12 20/x3 [(140 x 6.5 = 910) + (12 x 6.5 = 78) + (8 x 19.5 = 156)] = 1,144
    1D12 19-20/x2 [(120 x 6.5 = 780) + (24 x 6.5 = 156) + (16 x 13 = 208)] = 1,144
    1D10 18-20/x2 [(100 x 5.5 = 550) + (36 x 5.5 = 198) + (24 x 11 = 264)] = 1,012

    14.
    1D10 20/x4 [(120 x 5.5 = 660) + (13 x 5.5 = 71.5) + (7 x 22 = 154)] = 885.5
    1D12 20/x3 [(120 x 6.5 = 780) + (13 x 6.5 = 84.5) + (7 x 19.5 = 136.5)] = 1,001
    1D12 19-20/x2 [(100 x 6.5 = 650) + (26 x 6.5 = 169) + (14 x 13 = 182)] = 1,001
    1D10 18-20/x2 [(80 x 5.5 = 440) + (39 x 5.5 = 214.5) + (21 x 11 = 231)] = 885.5

    15.
    1D10 20/x4 [(100 x 5.5 = 550) + (14 x 5.5 = 77) + (6 x 22 = 132)] = 759
    1D12 20/x3 [(100 x 6.5 = 650) + (14 x 6.5 = 91) + (6 x 19.5 = 117)] = 858
    1D12 19-20/x2 [(80 x 6.5 = 520) + (28 x 6.5 = 182) + (12 x 13 = 156)] = 858
    1D10 18-20/x2 [(60 x 5.5 = 330) + (42 x 5.5 = 231) + (18 x 11 = 198)] = 759

    16.
    1D10 20/x4 [(80 x 5.5 = 440) + (15 x 5.5 = 82.5) + (5 x 22 = 110)] = 632.5
    1D12 20/x3 [(80 x 6.5 = 520) + (15 x 6.5 = 97.5) + (5 x 19.5 = 97.5)] = 715
    1D12 19-20/x2 [(60 x 6.5 = 390) + (30 x 6.5 = 195) + (10 x 13 = 130)] = 715
    1D10 18-20/x2 [(40 x 5.5 = 220) + (45 x 5.5 = 247.5) + (15 x 11 = 165)] = 632.5

    17.
    1D10 20/x4 [(60 x 5.5 = 330) + (16 x 5.5 = 88) + (4 x 22 = 88)] = 506
    1D12 20/x3 [(60 x 6.5 = 390) + (16 x 6.5 = 104) + (4 x 19.5 = 78)] = 572
    1D12 19-20/x2 [(40 x 6.5 = 260) + (32 x 6.5 = 208) + (8 x 13 = 104)] = 572
    1D10 18-20/x2 [(20 x 5.5 = 110) + (48 x 5.5 = 264) + (12 x 11 = 132)] = 506

    18.
    1D10 20/x4 [(40 x 5.5 = 220) + (17 x 5.5 = 93.5) + (3 x 22 = 66)] = 379.5
    1D12 20/x3 [(40 x 6.5 = 260) + (17 x 6.5 = 110.5) + (3 x 19.5 = 58.5)] = 429
    1D12 19-20/x2 [(20 x 6.5 = 130) + (34 x 6.5 = 221) + (6 x 13 = 78)] = 429
    1D10 18-20/x2 [(0 x 5.5 = 0) + (51 x 5.5 = 280.5) + (9 x 11 = 99)] = 379.5

    19.
    1D10 20/x4 [(20 x 5.5 = 110) + (18 x 5.5 = 99) + (2 x 22 = 44)] = 253
    1D12 20/x3 [(20 x 6.5 = 130) + (18 x 6.5 = 117) + (2 x 19.5 = 39)] = 286
    1D12 19-20/x2 [(0 x 6.5 = 0) + (36 x 6.5 = 234) + (4 x 13 = 52)] = 286
    1D10 18-20/x2 [(0 x 5.5 = 0) + (36 x 5.5 = 198) + (4 x 11 = 44)] = 242

    20.
    1D10 20/x4 [(0 x 5.5 = 0) + (19 x 5.5 = 104.5) + (1 x 22 = 22)] = 126.5
    1D12 20/x3 [(0 x 6.5 = 0) + (19 x 6.5 = 123.5) + (1 x 19.5 = 19.5)] = 143
    1D12 19-20/x2 [(0 x 6.5 = 0) + (19 x 6.5 = 123.5) + (1 x 13 = 13)] = 136.5
    1D10 18-20/x2 [(0 x 5.5 = 0) + (19 x 5.5 = 104.5) + (1 x 11 = 11)] = 115.5


    Average Damage = (126.5 x 209 =26,438.5) / (8,000) = 3.3048125
    Average Damage = (143 x 209 = 29,887) / (8,000) = 3.735875
    Average Damage = 136.5 + (143 x 208 =) / (8,000) = 3.7350625
    Average Damage = 115.5 + 242 + (126.5 x 206 = ) / 8,000 = 3.3020625

    +30 Damage Bonus

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    [Normal Number of Hits x Average Damage] + [Unconfirmed Critical Hits x Average Damage] + [Confirmed Critical Hits x (Average Damage x Multiplier)

    11.
    2D4 19-20/x4 [(160 x 25 = 4,000) + (20 x 25 = 500) + (20 x 100 = 2,000)] = 6,500
    1D10 19-20/x4 [(160 x 25.5 = 4,080) + (20 x 25.5 = 510) + (20 x 102 = 2,040)] = 6,630
    1D12 19-20/x3 [(160 x 26.5 = 4,240) + (20 x 26.5 = 530) + (20 x 79.5 = 1,590)] = 6,360
    2D6 19-20/x3 [(160 x 27 = 4,320) + (20 x 27 = 540) + (20 x 81 = 1,620) = 6,480
    2D6 17-20/x2 [(120 x 27 = 3,240) + (40 x 27 = 1,080) + (40 x 54 = 2,160)] = 6,480
    1D12 17-20/x2 [(120 x 26.5 = 3,180) + (40 x 26.5 = 1,060) + (40 x 53 = 2,120)] = 6,360
    1D10 15-20/x2 [(80 x 25.5 = 2,040) + (60 x 25.5 = 1,530) + (60 x 51 = 3,060)] = 6,630
    2D4 15-20/x2 [(80 x 25 = 2,000) + (60 x 25 = 1,500) + (60 x 50 = 3,000)] = 6,500

    11.
    2D4 19-20/x4 [(160 x 35 = 5,600) + (20 x 35 = 700) + (20 x 140 = 2800)] = 9,100
    1D10 19-20/x4 [(160 x 35.5 = 5,680) + (20 x 35.5 = 710) + (20 x 142 = 2,840)] = 9,230
    1D12 19-20/x3 [(160 x 36.5 = 5,840) + (20 x 36.5 = 730) + (20 x 109.5 = 2,190)] = 8,760
    2D6 19-20/x3 [(160 x 37 = 5,920) + (20 x 37 = 740) + (20 x 111 = 2,220) = 8,880
    2D6 17-20/x2 [(120 x 37 = 4,440) + (40 x 37 = 1,480) + (40 x 74 = 2,960)] = 8,880
    1D12 17-20/x2 [(120 x 36.5 = 4,380) + (40 x 36.5 = 1,460) + (40 x 73 = 2,920)] = 8,760
    1D10 15-20/x2 [(80 x 35.5 = 2,840) + (60 x 35.5 = 2,130) + (60 x 71 = 4,260)] = 9,230
    2D4 15-20/x2 [(80 x 35 = 2,800) + (60 x 35 = 2,100) + (60 x 70 = 4,200)] = 9,100

    You can probably extrapolate from there.

    If not, try looking here for the discussion: Custom Weapon Builder

    Basically, there is a damage threshold where one overtakes the other.
    Last edited by Matthew; 2007-09-09 at 11:52 AM.
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  29. - Top - End - #29
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Falchion, how useful?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quirinus_Obsidian View Post
    In the grand scheme of things...

    the 2 possible max damage ye get from a Greatsword is not something to write home about. When it gets down to it... ye can always find things to crit, or help with critting.
    True, but not every campaign goes into high levels. I'd say that before keen/improved critical greatsword outweighs the falchion, at which point it only becomes about equal.
    In most situations, the 2 damage (which is not solely '2 possible max damage', but rather '2 extra damage per hit, on average') is still nothing to dismiss so easily. Sure, considering power attack and a 1.5x strength modifier it's not like the greatsword-wielder will completely outshine the falchion-wielder, but nonetheless, the greatsword-wielder will deal more damage.

    Given the cost for a mere +1 enchantment (not to mention further ones), I'd say a quick +2 damage by simply choosing another base weapon is nothing to scoff at.
    Sure, these +1 weapons also give +1 to your attack bonus, but that effect takes up only a small portion in the price (compare it to the cost of masterwork weapons, for example).
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  30. - Top - End - #30
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Iku Rex's Avatar

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    Default Re: Falchion, how useful?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dhavaer View Post
    Weirdly, I was just reading a thread on the Wizards boards where someone did a mathematical breakdown of falchion vs. greatsword. With keen/improved crit., the falchion wielder needs 38 bonus damage to keep pace with the greatsword wielder. Difficult, but not impossible to get.
    That doesn't seem right.

    The average damage on hit for a keen greatsword is (7+bonus damage)*1.2. The average damage on hit for a keen falchion is (5+bonus damage)*1.3. (Provided you hit with a roll of 15 or better.)

    They deal the same average damage on a hit with +19 bonus damage. If you don't have keen/improved crit the falchion is better from +38 (edit: or rather, equal at exactly +39), so that's probably what you remember (edit: or not).
    Last edited by Iku Rex; 2007-09-11 at 11:01 AM.

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