Suggestions on a Knight/Crusader?

[benuneko]

Hello, everybody.. good to be back after a long hiatus. Jumping right into things...

My good friend PhoeKun is running an IRL campaign. It's likely to be one of my last for some time (due to the fact that I'm graduating from college in the spring) and I wanted to have some fun doing something I haven't done before: tanking. Or something. I've never had much luck with close-combat type characters, and I was hoping to do something like tanking, but still with the ability to deal some damage. Phoekun and I were talking, and I was originally thinking straight up Knight, but then he mentioned the Crusader and I was intrigued.

He said Knight/Crusader might be fun, but neither he nor I has found the nice balance of Knight levels and Crusader levels. Like I said, I'm hoping to do some damage and at the same time take quite a bit and keep on ticking (I've tended to have a propensity for early death in the past).

Any suggestions?

Since we're talking, here are my ability rolls: 12, 11, 17, 12, 9, 15. Thanks in advance.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Ditch the Knight levels and take Crusader?

[Neon Knight]

Knight's Challenge DCs are dependent on your Knight level. Multi classing as a knight is, in general, a bad thing, unless you're going into a PrC that stack with your knight levels for determining Knight's Challenge.

You don't have to be a Knight to tank, though. You see, a Knight tanks through forcing people to attack him with an MMORPG ability that makes little sense when used against intelligent foes like Mindflayers.

ToB classes like the Crusader tank by being so dangerous that you'd be stupid to ignore them. Unlike the Fighter, who loses most of his threat potential when denied a full attack, a ToB character is a threat anytime they have a standard action and can get within reach of their foe.

[benuneko]

So, straight up Crusader then? Any advice on how to allocate my ability scores? It seems that Crusaders need good Strength, Con, Int, and Charisma.. And I only have two "high" stat rolls. We're starting at level 8, so that 17 becomes an 18 in a hurry, and I'm torn between making the 15 a 16 and making the 9 a 10. Thoughts?

Thanks for your fast responses and for being candid! Despite having been playing for almost two years, I have done so with quite a bit of infrequency and, despite having good teachers, still feel in the dark about a lot of stuff. Thanks again!

[Dhavaer]

Str and Con are your best bets; Crusaders don't really need a whole lot of Charisma unless you're using a lot of Devoted Spirit maneuvers with saves. Stick to Stone Dragon and you won't need to worry about that so much, I think Stone Dragon keys off Strength.

[MeklorIlavator]

I would say go with at least a 13 in Dex(you would have to bump up another score), grab Combat Reflexes+Stand Still, a reach weapon, and Thicket of blades. Get Power attack and extra granted maneuver, and your golden. For extra goodness, sneak in a cleric level, go Ruby knight Vindicator, and then dominate the battle field in the name of the Ruby Queen(specific deity may vary based on campaign setting. Offer not valid in Athas.)

[Lord Tataraus]

Str and Con are your best bets; Crusaders don't really need a whole lot of Charisma unless you're using a lot of Devoted Spirit maneuvers with saves. Stick to Stone Dragon and you won't need to worry about that so much, I think Stone Dragon keys off Strength.

Ditto, I'd go with Str 18 Dex 11 Con 16 Int 12 Wis 9 Cha 12. Stone Dragon has a lot of defensive maneuvers such asw Stone Bones (DR 5/adam at 1st) and Roots of the Mountain (bonuses against bull rush, trip, etc. and DR2/-).

[Merlin the Tuna]

Knight's Challenge DCs are dependent on your Knight level.

While true and worth paying attention to, it's also worth noting that not all of the Knight's Challenges require saving throws to be made, and thus both Knight level and charisma don't need to be that important.

With that in mind, Knight 4 seems like a fairly good exit point. 4 uses of Knight's challenge (specifically, Fighting Challenge +1) will give you a little bit of extra oomph when you need it. Bulwark of Defense helps make lockdown even rougher, and means you may not always need Thicket of Blades up to draw AoOs. Armor Mastery (Medium) means mithral full-plate won't slow you down, if you ever get around to affording the stuff. And 4 knight levels means 2 Initiator levels, which works nicely with a multiclassed adept.

Of course, straight Crusader will likely work for this as well, but if you'd really prefer to have some Knight, 4 levels sounds about right.

[Person_Man]

If you are going to do it, then Knight 3/Crusader X is the best bet in my opinion. That will give you +1 to your Shield AC, Mounted Combat for free, and the Bulwark of Defense ability. Put yourself on a mount and go for Spirited Charge. This will give you respectable charge damage. Then focus on battlefield control maneuvers.

Having said that, strait Knight or Crusader is a much better bet.

[ImperiousLeader]

I'd say no more than 4 levels of Knight, 3 is pretty good for Bulwark of Defense. This way you'll get some 9th level maneuvers.