Alter Familiar?

[Skjaldbakka]

I have two related questions involving the Alter Self spell and the Share Spell ability.

1) What happens when you try to cast alter self on yourself, and share it with your familiar? Do you both assume the same humanoid form? Do you both assume the same magical beast form? Or do you pick a humanoid form for yourself and a magical beast form for your familiar?

2)Fortunately, I can simply target my familiar instead of myself with a personal range spell, so I can get around the above question w/o an answer.

Does a familiar that is changed with alter self retain its 'familiar' bonus progression to natural armor?

Now for a non-RAW question: do you think it would be reasonable to be able to use Alter Self to change a Tiny Viper Familiar into a Small Viper familiar? By RAW you can't because vipers aren't magical beasts.

Also, on that subject, are there any small size snakes that are magical beasts within the 5HD cap for alter self?

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

I have two related questions involving the Alter Self spell and the Share Spell ability.

1) What happens when you try to cast alter self on yourself, and share it with your familiar? Do you both assume the same humanoid form? Do you both assume the same magical beast form? Or do you pick a humanoid form for yourself and a magical beast form for your familiar?

The ability could use some clarification, but the wording suggest that you can only pick one shape.

... he may have any spell ... he casts on himself also affect his familiar.

2)Fortunately, I can simply target my familiar instead of myself with a personal range spell, so I can get around the above question w/o an answer.

Does a familiar that is changed with alter self retain its 'familiar' bonus progression to natural armor?

Certainly, the bonus to natural armor is not an effect derived from shape. It gains the bonus, because it is a familiar, which it still is even if its shape suggests otherwise by virtue of a spell.

Now for a non-RAW question: do you think it would be reasonable to be able to use Alter Self to change a Tiny Viper Familiar into a Small Viper familiar? By RAW you can't because vipers aren't magical beasts.

Nahhh, sounds ok.

Also, on that subject, are there any small size snakes that are magical beasts within the 5HD cap for alter self?

Not that I can remember, sorry.

[Iku Rex]

1) What happens when you try to cast alter self on yourself, and share it with your familiar? Do you both assume the same humanoid form? Do you both assume the same magical beast form? Or do you pick a humanoid form for yourself and a magical beast form for your familiar?

You each take a different form.

From Rules of the Game: Polymorph part 2:

You can't use alter self to change anyone or anything other than yourself. If you have a familiar, mount, or other companion with the share spells ability, you can change both yourself and your familiar or companion. Your familiar or companion must be within 5 feet at the time of casting to receive the effect, and it stops affecting the familiar or companion if it moves farther than 5 feet away and will not affect the familiar or companion again even if it returns to you before the spell's duration expires. You choose a form for yourself and for your familiar or companion. The forms you choose don't have to be the same. In fact, in most cases, they cannot be the same because alter self allows the subject to assume a form of the same type as itself only (see the next point).

Does a familiar that is changed with alter self retain its 'familiar' bonus progression to natural armor?

I'd have to say yes. The "existing" natural armor bonus is improved as long as the creature is a familiar.

DNow for a non-RAW question: do you think it would be reasonable to be able to use Alter Self to change a Tiny Viper Familiar into a Small Viper familiar? By RAW you can't because vipers aren't magical beasts.

IMO it would be inconsistent to allow familiars to take the form of two different creature types. You could ask the DM to incorporate Skip Williams' house rule though:

From Rules of the Game: Polymorph part 2:

When you share an alter self spell with a familiar or companion, the familiar or companion assumes a form of the same type as its own. While an animal becomes a magical beast upon becoming a familiar, such a creature must assume the form of an animal when sharing an alter self spell. For example, a cat familiar is a magical beast; when it shares an alter self spell, it assumes the form of an animal, such as a dog, a bird or a bat, not the form of a magical beast.

Also, on that subject, are there any small size snakes that are magical beasts within the 5HD cap for alter self?

There's a Small "minor flame snake" in the Fiend Folio.

[KillianHawkeye]

I'd allow a creature with the augmented subtype to choose between it's original type and it's current type when using a spell like alter self.

Thus, in the case of familiars (which probably have the "augmented animal" subtype, even though it doesn't say it in the PHB), you can have a reason to allow them to choose an animal form while not prohibiting magical beast forms.