Favorite Gestalt Combos

[Person_Man]

A friend of mine that lives up north is running a gestalt game for a medium sized group that already has all of their niches covered (Meatshield, Skill Monkey, Arcane Caster, Divine Caster, Party Buff). I might be stopping by from time to time, and if my visits coincide with his regular game, I'll play along for a session.

My regular group rarely uses gestalt, so I thought I'd solicit advice from the board. I would like a gestalt build that is within the following guidelines:

1) Is playable at any ECL: Please give me the final ECL 20 version of your build. But understand that we may start at level 1, and I want it to be just as useful at that level.

2) Has feasible fluff: I don't want to be a Druid 20 + Factotum 20, unless you can think of an intelligent reason a Druid 20 + Factotum 20 would actually exist.

3) Powerful, but not game breaking: This is a veteran gaming group that spends much of the time roleplaying and shies away from optimization. So I need to be useful and versatile, but not something you would probably ban if you were DM.

4) No heavy bookkeeping: I'll never know what ECL we're playing at until shortly before I play. So I'd like to avoid spellcasting or anything else that requires me to spend several hours pouring through books just before we play.

5) Ideally, I would like a build with high hit points, full BAB, high AC, high Saves, respectable Skills, and the ability to contribute in combat. However I'm open to any possible gestalt build if you think its a good idea for whatever reason.

6) All 3.5 material is allowed, with the exception of Incarnum, Tome of Magic, and campaign world specific material (so no Eberron, Forgotten Realms, etc). All of the Completes, Psionics, and the Tome of Battle will definitely be in the campaign.

Thanks for your ideas in advance.

[Raolin_Fenix]

Go with a Fighter/Rogue. With full BAB, d10 hit die, and two high saves, there's nothing you should be worried about (except enemies Dominating you; get someone to Mind-Blank you posthaste, or boost your Will save some other way). With a ton of skill points, and a ton of feats, there's nothing you can't customize yourself to be able to do. With sneak-attack (and a few appropriate feats to make flanking easier, like PHB2's Adaptable Flanker), you'll never be useless to the party.

Maybe add a PrC in place of fighter levels; Dread Pirate is good, especially the Honorable sort, so that you can offer (further) party buff. Everyone loves party buff, even if they've already got a buffer; you can give the buffer a break so that he can do something cool for a change.

Alternatively, take Barbarian in place of Fighter for even higher hit-die and better Will saves, not to mention more damage and better HP while raging. You'll lose a ton of feats, but still have a ton of skill points and plenty of class features to make up for it.

Remember, though: the Fighter is the bacon of the gestalt setting. There's nothing you can add it to that won't be improved by it.

[Douglas]

Cleric/Swordsage. Good wisdom synergy, cleric buffs + swordsage maneuvers make for a combat powerhouse and can be scaled up or down to a suitable power level fairly easily just by adjusting how many buffs you use, and you've got healing and plenty of versatility with the cleric spell list and swordsage skills.

[Fax Celestis]

Hexblade/Luckstealer/Fatespinner//Spellthief. You control everyone's destiny. Take Luck feats for flavor and augmentation of your class features, and use the Dark Companion alternate class feature for the Hexblade.

You can probably fit some Abjurant Champion in there too, on the Hexblade side. If you can get all five levels, it'll make your CL on both sides of the progression jump enormously.

Further, with your build, you can be what you need to be, when you need to be it. If the party needs another caster, steal spells from the other casters and use them. If they need a trickster or rogue-like, you can suffice in a pinch. When it comes down to the wire and your party needs a meleer, you can do it thanks to your d10 HD.

You should boost your Charisma as high as possible, as it will augment almost all of your class features. Related to this, your best feature is your stellar saves. And, thanks to its disparate base classes, the class is playable as early as first level and remains powerful all the way to 20th.

Good feats to choose would be:
Arcane Strike: you have a lot of spells due to double-half-caster progressions, so burning a few on this isn't a total hardship.
Luck feats: As a master of fate, mastering your own destiny is almost a requirement. These help.

[GimliFett]

Ugh. Dunno what I was looking at when I wrote that. Ranger / Paladin would be a fun ocmbo that's not seen often, to my knowledge.

[Thinker]

Ranger // Soulknife, with eventual progression into the Soulbow (as soon as you qualify). It gives you full BAB, all good saves, decent HP. This will make a decent archer and plays upon the wise forest ranger idea. You will have the Ranger casting and if you pump Wisdom can get some pretty nice damage with your attacks. This build requires the SRD and CPsi (or the preview on the WotC site).

[Jacob Orlove]

To avoid having to make a ton of spell selection decisions, you could go with the Beguiler, which has an (excellent) fixed list of spells at each spell level. Pair it with Ranger for all good saves, full BAB, 6+int skills/level (off of int-based casting, plus you get almost every skill in the game as a class skill), d8 HD, and plenty of nifty class features on both sides, like trapfinding, bonus feats, more bonus feats, no ASF in light armor, hide in plain sight, ranger spellcasting and more. The fluff works out fine, too, although you'll probably want to be Chaotic.

The best part is you can just take each class from 1-20 on both sides and be fine.

Edit: that's actually the second best part. The best part is near-zero bookkeeping. Use some alternate class feature to trade out ranger spellcasting, and all you have to choose when going up levels are your skill points and normal feats/

[Indon]

Paladin//Rogue. With that much MAD, you can't be optimizing.

He can fulfill multiple secondary niches (able to heal/turn/buff, good hp, sneak attack, good skills/saves, fair social ability), enough to support pretty much anyone.

Your fluff is simple enough; pick a lawful deity focused on hunting down criminals in which case your abilities are along the lines of, "it takes a thief to catch a thief," or pick a more neutral deity to whom their divine champion may well be a rogue (such as the god of roads). This furthermore gives you the option to go with a Paladin of Freedom, if you like.

[Dr. Weasel]

Hexblade/Luckstealer/Fatespinner//Spellthief. You control everyone's destiny. Take Luck feats for flavor and augmentation of your class features, and use the Dark Companion alternate class feature for the Hexblade.

I was going to suggest something like this, but Fax beat me to it. Both of your classes' spell lists are pretty simple and the style of the combination is about as neat as it gets.

[EDIT:]

Arcane Strike: you have a lot of spells due to double-half-caster progressions, so burning a few on this isn't a total hardship.

Can you burn stolen spells with this? It wouldn't usually be optimal but that would even further the groovitude of the character.

[Douglas]

Cleric/Swordsage. Good wisdom synergy, cleric buffs + swordsage maneuvers make for a combat powerhouse and can be scaled up or down to a suitable power level fairly easily just by adjusting how many buffs you use, and you've got healing and plenty of versatility with the cleric spell list and swordsage skills.

To further address individual points:

1) Is playable at any ECL: Please give me the final ECL 20 version of your build. But understand that we may start at level 1, and I want it to be just as useful at that level.

I'm a bit busy to put together a fully detailed build all the way to level 20 at the moment, but my suggested class combination doesn't require a great deal of effort to be good at any level.

2) Has feasible fluff: I don't want to be a Druid 20 + Factotum 20, unless you can think of an intelligent reason a Druid 20 + Factotum 20 would actually exist.

All you need is an appropriate deity to follow. With the right deity, cleric fits with anything.

3) Powerful, but not game breaking: This is a veteran gaming group that spends much of the time roleplaying and shies away from optimization. So I need to be useful and versatile, but not something you would probably ban if you were DM.

A fully twinked out CoDzilla will flatten everything in sight with ease, especially with swordsage maneuvers added, but the nature of CoDzilla is such that its power level can be adjusted almost arbitrarily within a large range.

4) No heavy bookkeeping: I'll never know what ECL we're playing at until shortly before I play. So I'd like to avoid spellcasting or anything else that requires me to spend several hours pouring through books just before we play.

Whoops, sorry about that. This can be dealt with ahead of time, however, by the simply expedient of writing out the full progression of maneuvers learned at each level and putting together a short list of typical spells for the cleric side. Thanks to clerics access to their spell list, any oversights in that regard can be corrected after a single night's rest.

5) Ideally, I would like a build with high hit points, full BAB, high AC, high Saves, respectable Skills, and the ability to contribute in combat. However I'm open to any possible gestalt build if you think its a good idea for whatever reason.

d8 isn't great, but not bad either. At levels where it really makes a big difference you can cast Divine Power for full BAB. Wisdom to AC that's compatible with light armor helps a lot in that department, and you've got all the cleric buffs to draw on too. All saves are good. 6+int skill points per level and a pretty good list to pick from is beaten only by the rogue. As for combat - it's CoDzilla, given an extra boost. Do I really need to say more?

6) All 3.5 material is allowed, with the exception of Incarnum, Tome of Magic, and campaign world specific material (so no Eberron, Forgotten Realms, etc). All of the Completes, Psionics, and the Tome of Battle will definitely be in the campaign.

That covers all you really need quite well. If Spell Compendium is allowed that would increase the maximum heights of CoDzilla buffing you could engage in, but that won't be necessary unless the group is thoroughly optimized.

[FireSpark]

Well, how about a Knight // Favored Soul. The Knight brings a d12 HD, full bab, and full armor and weaponry proficiency. The Favored Soul has all good saves, and spontaneous casting of cleric spells. Not to mention that there's some Charisma synergy between the two classes. Sure the skill selection may be on the low side, but considering that you'll be up with the front-liners, alternating between killing things and healing allies, I'm sure that they won't mind that your skills may be lacking. Not to mention that if you dedicate yourself to nothing but healing, that frees the cleric up to change his spell selctions to fit that day's particular challenge. So, see? Everbody wins!

I could probably have a draft up in a few hours or so.

[Arbitrarity]

A classical gish option is a wizard//warblade, which has nice INT synergy, wizard casting, D12's, full BAB, good saves (except reflex, but it gets INT to that). Has a large range of potential power, like CoDzilla, depending on spell/manuver selection, works decently in fluff. Nice for flexibility, as you can use manuvers for regular fights, and pull out the big guns as a wizard. Pretty good skills, if only because of INT.

Not too sure about AC though, because your armour is heavily restricted. Initially, unless you're OK with ASF, you're gonna be very easy to hit.

[Solo]

I vote for Monk/Cleric or Monk/Druid.

Take advantage of that high Wisdom.

[Fax Celestis]

Can you burn stolen spells with this? It wouldn't usually be optimal but that would even further the groovitude of the character.

No reason you can't. Steal Spell steals spells, Arcane Strike burns 'em up. Spellthief Dip^TM is good with Duskblade and the Master Spellthief feat especially because of this.

[JackMage666]

Warblade/Wizard is a nice gish build, but it's kinda heavy on bookkeeping.

[Riffington]

I've never played gestalt, but it seems that if you aren't going to be a full-caster, you are going to need an edge.

Fighter/Monk sounds like it might have that edge. The monk's Flurry of Blows combined with the fighter's BAB... it's enough to make you want to take Weapon Specialization: Unarmed since you'll have so many attacks.

It also gives you insane numbers of feats.

[Arbitrarity]

Warblade/Wizard is a nice gish build, but it's kinda heavy on bookkeeping.

Oh, right, forgot about that :/. Hmmmm....

Warblade isn't too bad (I often make 1-20 progressions of manuvers gained and lost at each level, then you just need to read and check the boxes) but wizard is :/.

On the "weird" list, you could do a warblade//beguiler. Now, how to rationalize this with fluff....

Then he'd be a warblade who uses deception and magic to meet his political ends, and heavily manipulates people. Warblade is the "dominant" visible side, while beguiler provides a backup toolset for him to use on people. Of course, you can make it make sense other ways as well

[Fax Celestis]

A potentially interesting one would be Dragon Shaman//Dragonfire Adept. Very little in the way of choices during the course of the classes, and it would basically result in you being something of a minidragon when you're higher up.

[Ramza00]

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39659

Druid 20//Monk 1/Psychic Warrior 19 with Tashalatora (stacks unarmed damage and flurry with one psionic class). Perhaps with a few levels of Warshaper, Totemist, and/or Master of Many forms.

Do the spontaneous casting druid from UA to make things easier from a book keeping perspective. Focus on buffs, with a few area control, summoning, and healing, and few direct damage.

If necessary I can do a starting list but only if you request it.

[Tyrrell]

I like Warblade /Psychic Warrior for just beating things down, full BAB, 12 sided hit dice, more feats than a fighter six skill points per level and a full set of psychic warrior toys and Book of nine swords maneuvers. Furthermore it's conceptually simple and thematically focused. (But perhaps more book keeping than you'd like)

Another nice choice is Beguiler/warmage. Both are charisma based casters with some ability to use armor so no you've got no MAD problems. Furthermore you don't have to do any work for spell selection the classes have already done that for you. Lastly your spell selection is pretty broad with all of the blast spells illusions and enchantments that you'd ever want and a bit of battlefield control. With War mage you also get to add in a few spells that appeal to you to round out your weal points. This one is also thematically focussed.

[Ramza00]

warblade is 4 skill points per level.

beguiler is int based not charisma.

[Jacob Orlove]

Right, and Beguiler goes much better with Ranger anyway, as I suggested above. Remember, a good gestalt build combines active abilities with passive abilities, not active with active.

[Fax Celestis]

Also consider Monk//Swordsage. You can have your judo, and use it too.

[Saph]

Hmm. If you want simple and quick-to-play, then anything with Vancian casting is out. ToB classes are probably out as well, due to the amount of maneuvers you have to pick and switch around. And working out a full spell list for a Sorcerer or Favoured Soul would be a hassle.

That leaves either a full melee class, or one of the spellcasters with fixed spell lists, like Duskblade or Beguiler. Off the top of my head:

Barbarian//Bard - Full BAB, all good saves, d12 hit dice, good skills, very simple to play, light spellcasting which wouldn't be too hard to work out.

Duskblade//Rogue - Full BAB, all good saves, only a d8 hit dice, loads of skills and options, but quite quick to build. Not as tough, though.

Ranger//Warmage - Full BAB, all good saves, only a d8 hit dice, but you'll never be in melee so you don't care. Go into Arcane Archer with the Ranger, have fun blowing stuff up.

Barbarian//Beguiler - Full BAB, good Fort and Will saves, d12 hit dice. Very flexible and you'll never be short of something to do.

- Saph

[ShneekeyTheLost]

1) Paladin3/Fighter2/Ranger15//Sorcerer/MotAO/Iot7V/AM. Full BAB. Casting stat to all saves. Good feats. Decent HP. And Ranger brings Evasion to the table in light armor. In short, +1 Twilight Mithral Shirt for no ASF. Sorcerer isn't as bad on the bookeeping as a wizard is, with it's limited spell list. A champion of the diety of magic who uses skills learned in the 'real world' to uphold his diety's believes, charged with ensuring responsible magic use.

2) Monk//(insert batman wizard build here). Okay, bookkeeping required, but seriously, you're going to need some sort of spellcasting to really excell at being decent in Gestalt. Basically, it's a Batman Wizard with monk defenses, monk resists, monk immunities, and monk unarmed damage if you get into melee. Only problem: 3/4 BAB. An asthetic who studies arcane and martial arts, plenty of fluff available here, complete with Fu Man Chu moustashe and Wise Old Sayings.

3) Barbarian (Maybe Fighter2 splash for feats)//Rogue. Hulk Smash... accurately. You have D12 hit die, full BAB, good saves (except will, but you can get Slippery Mind from Rogue), 8+int mod skill points per level... in short... just about everything you were asking for. If you want, get Lion Barbarian from Complete Champions to get pouncing. What can be more fun than sneak attacking with a greatsword? Flavor in abundance here. Rather than just a 'hulk smash', you have a cunning and crafty hunter who uses stealth and guile as much as his enormous sword to great advantage, having adapted his nomadic hunting skills to an urban setting.

Druid15/Warshaper5//Rogue20. Good saves, good damage potential. CoDzilla on the Druid side, focusing on melee output in animal form. You can still sneak attack while an animal and flanking is present. Grab Sneak Attack of Opportunity, and dish out sick damage as a Dire Bear with a reach of 15'. Alternately, shapeshifting variant Ranger/warshaper. A primal hunter who has learned to stalk his prey no matter how ungainly his form may be.

ToB stuff:

Barbarian//Swordsage. Have your cake and eat it too. All good saves, D12 hit die, and Swordsage maneuvers. Tiger Fang much?

Warblade//Rogue. Will lacks, but D12 hit die, rogue skills and adding sneak attacks whenever you flank (Wall of Blades anyone?), plus White Raven stuff to add to flanking opportunities (Clarion Call to make any opponent considered to be 'flanked' on an intimidate DC 20 check? Yes please) and helping out your buddies.

Monk/Warblade. Unarmed is a favorite weapon of Tiger Fang and Stone Dragon. All good saves, D12 hit die, not bad skills... this is a guy who may actually be more of a finesse fighter than a tank, but deadly damage output cometh your way. A person who is the ultimae Master of the Blade. He has studied, probably from infancy, in a Temple, to be the best of the best of the best. And has succeeded.

[Dr. Weasel]

A Paladin of Tyranny//Wilder would be doable, having full manifesting with only a short power list, good hitpoints and saves, 4+Int Skill points and Full Base Attack. There's Charisma Synergy and intrinsic save-debuffing combined with available save-or-lose powers.
The Wilder class is actually one of the best pure-caster/manifester classes for a gish (especially a Charisma-based one such as the paladin) with its 4 skill points, Armored Casting, Surging Euphoria and Elude Touch abilities

[Dhavaer]

Warblade//Swordsage. 1/1 BAB, all good saves, 6+ skills, d12 hit die, full maneuver progression.

[knightsaline]

Sorcerer/Barbarian: can you say "caster with a d12 hitdie?" Fighter/Sorcerer doesn't exactly work, because of the armor thing.

Cleric/Sorcerer: Two Words: Mystic Theurge. Arcane and Divine casting, D8 hitdie and no loss of caster levels!

Wizard/Sorcerer: Arcane Overdrive!

Paladin/Cleric: Turn as a cleric of your level, get WIS to AC, immunity to poison and lots of cool ****.

Swashbuckler/Sorcerer: Fight like a swashbuckler, cast like a sorcerer!

[Dr. Weasel]

Those are all plausible (albiet with horrendous MAD and next to no focus) but the problem is finding a combination minimizing the time spent choosing spells, powers and maneuvers while still developing a competent character. Ranger//Beguiler for instance combines two light armor classes focused on utility skills with no time spent choosing spells.

[Reinboom]

Dragon Shaman // Rogue - All good saves, d10 HD, 8 + int skill points. Not heavily armor focused and covers a decent assortment of roles. With heavy charisma your a decent healer eventually, and extremely dynamic support as well as being able to take a beating in a fight and come out well.
Only focused stat is Charisma - with Con, Dex, Str, and Int all being able to be used depending on how you wish to build it. Personally, A high charisma (16, or 18), with high dex (16 or 18), decent con (12 or 14), and decent int (12 or 14) could work quite well.