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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    GnomePirate

    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Appalachian Mountains

    Default Spell Suggestions?

    I'm looking for a good 1st level spell to take. I was going to take Enlarge Person, but it turns out the party fighter is a 2WF with a 15 dex, so he loses 2WF if I hit him with it. The other party members are a Archery Ranger and a Finessing Scout, so Enlarge Person pretty much doesn't help. I am wanting to focus on enchantment and necromancy, but I would like to have a good party buff for fights when neither of those are applicable.

    My current spell list:

    0 level spells which aren't significant

    1st level: Ray of Enfeeblement, Charm Person, Parching Touch
    2nd Level: False Life (maybe, I need the HPs pretty badly with my 8 con)

    So far we have had one combat, in which I had to send my viper familiar into combat with a parching touch spell.

    I'm currently level 4, so I can swap out one of my level 1s for something else, and I haven't settled on false life yet.
    Aratos Tell
    HP:53/53 AC:19,FlatFooted:16,Touch:13
    Active Effects: Speak w/Animals
    Spells Prepared: Cure Minor Wounds*4, Flare, Calm Animals, Charm Animal, Cure Light Wounds, Animal Messenger, Flaming Sphere, Lesser Restoration, Hold Animal, Cure Mod. Wounds*2, Speak w/Plants

    Megiddo
    HP:26/26 PP: 40/40 AC:14,FlatFooted:13,Touch:13
    Active Effects:
    Spells Prepared: Light*2, Burning Hands*2, Protection f/Evil, Magic Missile, Shocking Grasp, See Invis., Acid Arrow, Scorching Ray*2

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    JackMage666's Avatar

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    Jan 2007
    Location
    Central Texas
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    Default Re: Spell Suggestions?

    Mage Armor's still decent for a bit, until you can get Twighlight Mithral Shirt.

    Shield's also good for defense, as +4 Shield AC is pretty decent.

    That should help your low Con a bit, since you'll get hit less.
    If there's a rule, there's someone out there trying to figure out how to get around it just to piss off his DM.

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  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    GnomePirate

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    May 2005
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    Appalachian Mountains

    Default Re: Spell Suggestions?

    I have an AC of 12. I'm not sure that a +4 is more useful than the 1d6+2 strength penalty I can hit an advancing meleer with. I should probably note that I have gloves of arrow snaring, so I'm not very worried about ranged attackers.
    Aratos Tell
    HP:53/53 AC:19,FlatFooted:16,Touch:13
    Active Effects: Speak w/Animals
    Spells Prepared: Cure Minor Wounds*4, Flare, Calm Animals, Charm Animal, Cure Light Wounds, Animal Messenger, Flaming Sphere, Lesser Restoration, Hold Animal, Cure Mod. Wounds*2, Speak w/Plants

    Megiddo
    HP:26/26 PP: 40/40 AC:14,FlatFooted:13,Touch:13
    Active Effects:
    Spells Prepared: Light*2, Burning Hands*2, Protection f/Evil, Magic Missile, Shocking Grasp, See Invis., Acid Arrow, Scorching Ray*2

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    JackMage666's Avatar

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    Default Re: Spell Suggestions?

    But the durations are longer, so you can buff yourself pre-fight.
    If there's a rule, there's someone out there trying to figure out how to get around it just to piss off his DM.

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  5. - Top - End - #5
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Dr. Weasel's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2006

    Default Re: Spell Suggestions?

    You're talking about a Sorcerer then?

    Grease. Always Grease. A caster without Grease is like a man without a shoe: Mildly inconvenienced.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    GnomePirate

    Join Date
    May 2005
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    Appalachian Mountains

    Default Re: Spell Suggestions?

    Yes, sorcerer. As a man currently without a shoe, I would like to say, for the record- it is significantly more than an inconvenience.
    Aratos Tell
    HP:53/53 AC:19,FlatFooted:16,Touch:13
    Active Effects: Speak w/Animals
    Spells Prepared: Cure Minor Wounds*4, Flare, Calm Animals, Charm Animal, Cure Light Wounds, Animal Messenger, Flaming Sphere, Lesser Restoration, Hold Animal, Cure Mod. Wounds*2, Speak w/Plants

    Megiddo
    HP:26/26 PP: 40/40 AC:14,FlatFooted:13,Touch:13
    Active Effects:
    Spells Prepared: Light*2, Burning Hands*2, Protection f/Evil, Magic Missile, Shocking Grasp, See Invis., Acid Arrow, Scorching Ray*2

  7. - Top - End - #7

    Default Re: Spell Suggestions?

    Hmm, first level buffs... that aren't self-only...

    Nerveskitter (Spell Compendium) is a 1st level immediate action transmutation spell that boosts either your or an ally's initiative by 5 at the start of a fight. This is awesome.

    Mage Armor, Mirror Image, Shield, Protection from X, and so forth are all great for keeping you (or in some cases, your allies) very much more alive than they otherwise would be.

    Not quite sure why you're so interested in *buffs* though. There's not a lot of really great ones at level 1 except for self-only ones, and *DE*buffs.

    I do not recommend false life, since it doesn't really give you a whole lot of hp, and you don't want to be stuck casting it 3 or 4 times per day. Additionally, I think you should want things that stop you from getting hit to begin with (like, say, Stay The Hand (PHB II) enchantment: IMMEDIATE action level 2 spell that prevents an enemy from attacking)

    So yeah. Check out Stay the Hand. It's an immediate action, and it makes it so that people can't hurt you. And seems to naturally follow your theme. Cool. Not *fantastic* like Web or Grease or Glitterdust or anything, but cool. Of course at 3rd level, there's Hesitate, which *is* fantastic.

    Edit:

    Quote Originally Posted by Skjaldbakka View Post
    I have an AC of 12. I'm not sure that a +4 is more useful than the 1d6+2 strength penalty I can hit an advancing meleer with. I should probably note that I have gloves of arrow snaring, so I'm not very worried about ranged attackers.
    YOW! You'd better get something to protect yourself, and not just 1d6+2 strength penalties! Low AC, low hp, no protective spells? You're just askin' for it, really. Well, this makes Stay the Hand an attractive choice, because people will waste their action if they attack you and miss a will save.
    Last edited by OneWinged4ngel; 2007-09-12 at 11:17 PM.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Surgebinder in the Playground Moderator
     
    Douglas's Avatar

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    Default Re: Spell Suggestions?

    Try Glitterdust for your level 2 spell. Save-or-blinded in an AoE is nasty even when you don't have an invisible enemy to strip concealment from.
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  9. - Top - End - #9
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
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    Seattle, USA
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    Default Re: Spell Suggestions?

    You need mage armor in a bad way. With 12 AC most attacks aimed your way will hit you, and a sorc doesn't have enough Hp to get hit often. It's true that ray of enfeeblement will lower your opponents offensive abilities, but it only targets one opponent, and it's duration is short. Mage armor lasts hours, even at low levels, and will greatly reduce the chance you will be hit.

    Truth be told, while ray of enfeeblement and false life are both great spells, they are better when you gain a few more spell levels and your low level spells are primarily used for their utility. Sorcerer/Wizards are about control, and you have no controlling spells, no sleep, no grease, no color spray, no glitterdust, these are the kind of spells that make your party want an arcane caster around.

    At sorcerer 4, I would take the following line up

    0 Level: Dancing Lights, Detect Magic, Light, Mage Hand, Read Magic, Prestidigitation
    Level 1: Grease, Mage Armor, Shield
    Level 2: Glitterdust

    Mage Armor should be on any time there is a chance for combat, Grease and Glitterdust are your go to combat spells, and shield is used if enemies start attacking you or you have a round or two to prepare for a difficult battle. At these low levels you don't have spells to waste on targeted spells(like ray of enfeeblement) or situational spells(like charm person). Those can be gained later when you have higher level spells to deal with large groups of foes.
    "Sometimes, we’re heroes. Sometimes, we shoot other people right in the face for money."

    -Shadowrun 4e, Runner's Companion

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Dr. Weasel's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2006

    Default Re: Spell Suggestions?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOOB
    0 Level: Dancing Lights, Detect Magic, Light, Mage Hand, Read Magic, Prestidigitation
    Level 1: Grease, Mage Armor, Shield
    Level 2: Glitterdust
    I'd second this as Ray of Enfeeblement will burn through your spells quickly assuming there's more than one foe per encounter and Charm Person requires Heighten Spell to remain useful and even then it takes a full-round action to cast and still only works against humanoids and even then doesn't impact their views about the rest of the party.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Orc in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2006

    Default Re: Spell Suggestions?

    Wands.

    Even if your AC sucks, more AC will give enemies less of a percentage chance to hit. Strength is irrelevent, running away is not. Mage Armor and Shield are your friends. At this point, even caltrops are your friends. Instead of Grease, check out the Lard item from Dungeonscape. Put that Int to work outside of spellcasting and make terrain in fallback areas heck except for one non-straight path to stop chargemonkey foes.
    Last edited by Machete; 2007-09-12 at 11:50 PM.
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  12. - Top - End - #12
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    GnomePirate

    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Appalachian Mountains

    Default Re: Spell Suggestions?

    Well, I can only switch out one of my 1st level spells for something else at
    4th level. Which do you recommend? I haven't selected 2nd level spells yet, so more suggestions are always good. I have to have Command Undead before 6th level, as the character goal is to be the first serious necromancer in the setting (planning to become a lich and all that rot).
    Aratos Tell
    HP:53/53 AC:19,FlatFooted:16,Touch:13
    Active Effects: Speak w/Animals
    Spells Prepared: Cure Minor Wounds*4, Flare, Calm Animals, Charm Animal, Cure Light Wounds, Animal Messenger, Flaming Sphere, Lesser Restoration, Hold Animal, Cure Mod. Wounds*2, Speak w/Plants

    Megiddo
    HP:26/26 PP: 40/40 AC:14,FlatFooted:13,Touch:13
    Active Effects:
    Spells Prepared: Light*2, Burning Hands*2, Protection f/Evil, Magic Missile, Shocking Grasp, See Invis., Acid Arrow, Scorching Ray*2

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
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    Seattle, USA
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    Default Re: Spell Suggestions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Machete View Post
    Wands.
    For shield and ray of enfeeblement yes wands are great if you can afford them. Neither spells gain a great deal from more levels (at least ray doesn't until a higher level when you can fit it in anyways). If you can afford a wand of shield, drop shield from my projected spell list. Anything can take that spot, though some direct damage, say burning hands, wouldn't hurt, and besides, it never hurts to be able to light things on fire, trust me on that.
    "Sometimes, we’re heroes. Sometimes, we shoot other people right in the face for money."

    -Shadowrun 4e, Runner's Companion

  14. - Top - End - #14

    Default Re: Spell Suggestions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Skjaldbakka View Post
    Well, I can only switch out one of my 1st level spells for something else at
    4th level. Which do you recommend? I haven't selected 2nd level spells yet, so more suggestions are always good. I have to have Command Undead before 6th level, as the character goal is to be the first serious necromancer in the setting (planning to become a lich and all that rot).
    Wizards and sorcerors tend to be fairly poor necromancers in the undead-usin' sense, just so you know. Clerics and Dread Necromancers tend to be much, much better at that. And o' course, Dread Necros cast spontaneously off Cha, so you can still totally say you're a sorceror. Heck, he even gradually becomes a lich over the class progression!

    You might want to ask your DM about character rebuilding. Heck, if you just say "Parching Touch and Charm Person are on your spell list" (not a big change to the class, really), then your character doesn't really have to change at all IC. His mechanics just change.
    Last edited by OneWinged4ngel; 2007-09-13 at 12:12 AM.

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Troll in the Playground
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    Jul 2005
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    Default Re: Spell Suggestions?

    Quote Originally Posted by OneWinged4ngel View Post
    Wizards and sorcerors tend to be fairly poor necromancers in the undead-usin' sense, just so you know. Clerics and Dread Necromancers tend to be much, much better at that. And o' course, Dread Necros cast spontaneously off Cha, so you can still totally say you're a sorceror. Heck, he even gradually becomes a lich over the class progression!

    If your DM allows it, you might want to ask your DM about character rebuilding. Heck, if you just say "Parching Touch and Charm Person are on your spell list" (not a big change to the class, really), then your character doesn't really have to change at all IC. His mechanics just change.
    Course, thats assuming one wants to be a "Blargh! ZOmbies" necromancer. Considering his interest in false life, I would say he's more interested in the school, not the zombos.

    That is to say, he doesn't really want a horde. ANy wizard makes a good Lich.
    Last edited by Collin152; 2007-09-13 at 12:14 AM.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    GnomePirate

    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Appalachian Mountains

    Default Re: Spell Suggestions?

    It is probably worth noting at this point that the campaign setting has no clerics.

    EDIT- response to post below:

    True, but a goal's a goal, and a roll's a roll, and if I ain't got no goals, I don't get no rolls.

    Poor wanna-be necro wants to have an undead army at his command, regardless of efficiency. To make up for it, I want the other spells he takes to be efficient.
    Last edited by Skjaldbakka; 2007-09-13 at 12:22 AM.
    Aratos Tell
    HP:53/53 AC:19,FlatFooted:16,Touch:13
    Active Effects: Speak w/Animals
    Spells Prepared: Cure Minor Wounds*4, Flare, Calm Animals, Charm Animal, Cure Light Wounds, Animal Messenger, Flaming Sphere, Lesser Restoration, Hold Animal, Cure Mod. Wounds*2, Speak w/Plants

    Megiddo
    HP:26/26 PP: 40/40 AC:14,FlatFooted:13,Touch:13
    Active Effects:
    Spells Prepared: Light*2, Burning Hands*2, Protection f/Evil, Magic Missile, Shocking Grasp, See Invis., Acid Arrow, Scorching Ray*2

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
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    Seattle, USA
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    Default Re: Spell Suggestions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Skjaldbakka View Post
    It is probably worth noting at this point that the campaign setting has no clerics.
    Still, undead necromancy is difficult for an arcane caster, they should focus on all the nasty debuffs and death spells necromancy has.
    "Sometimes, we’re heroes. Sometimes, we shoot other people right in the face for money."

    -Shadowrun 4e, Runner's Companion

  18. - Top - End - #18

    Default Re: Spell Suggestions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Collin152 View Post
    That is to say, he doesn't really want a horde.
    He doesn't? He said he needed Command Undead:
    http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/commandUndead.htm

    This seems to indicate a desire for zombified buddies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Skjaldbakka View Post
    It is probably worth noting at this point that the campaign setting has no clerics.
    But what about Sorcerors? Dread Necromancer can totally be flavored as a sorceror. It's a spontaneous, charisma-based arcane caster focused in necromancy that eventually (and gradually) masters the ability to become a lich. It sounds like *exactly* what you want.
    Last edited by OneWinged4ngel; 2007-09-13 at 12:26 AM.

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