Dealing with Turning

[Ranis]

Hey guys, I'm almost fed up with this and I need some serious help.

I am running a slightly undead-heavy campaign with 9 PCs, all of whom are level 8. My cleric is essentially a turn-bot, with I do beleive 11 uses of Greater Turning per day.

Basically, he completely hoses any ECL-appropriate undead encounters that I can throw at them. I put two CR11 undead in a room in a dungeon, and he devastated both of them in a single round. I need to know: is this possible at all, or is he cheating? What do you think I should do to leash him, other than doubling the amount of undead I throw at them to make the combat last more than a round?

Also: do you think it's out of line for me to not let him turn the boss of a dungeon so that it's not an easy-win button?

[Shas aia Toriia]

Simple, you have 3 options.

1. Use monsters other then undead. Really, it's the easiest way to stop him from so much turning.

2. Use undead with tonnes of hit dice. If the CR 8 undead has 17 HD, your cleric can't turn it, ever, unless he can raise his effective turning level.

3. Turn resistance. This stuff is pretty much designed to stop turning. It raises the effective HD of an undead, making it harder to turn.

Also, don't forget, as DM, you have ultimate control over what happens. Fudge the rolls if it bothers you that much. Roll behind a screen, and say he fails, no matter what you roll. (Just don't tell him that he is auto-failing, as that will annoy him to no end).

[Riffington]

One other thing that might be interesting is to have the party face undead... backed by a powerful evil cleric whose bolster is at least as good as your good cleric's turn...

but yeah, in general it sucks if you want to use so many undead and he is so strong against them. If it disrupts the campaign, talk to him about modifying the character to make the experience more fun.

[AslanCross]

I think that with 9 Lv 8 PCs, you could easily raise the Encounter Levels a bunch. I run a campaign with 6 Lv 6 PCs, and I regularly throw EL 8-9s at them. Bosses are at least EL (party level+5). Thus, you could pull out the stops and advance those shamblers some more.

[Shas aia Toriia]

One other thing that might be interesting is to have the party face undead...

On this subject, make anybody in the party undead. I don't think they'll appreciate re-rolling every session. Needless to say, he shouldn't be turning as much soon enough.

[Funkyodor]

Bump up the monster hit dice, Enemy cleric that Bolsters Undead, Bump up the ECL of the entire encounter as the OP's have mentioned.

And you could put some non-undead baddies that appear to be undead so he wastes some of his turn attempts trying to deal with them. By rolling under a screen he might think he just failed and won't realize he cant turn these Flesh or Bone Golems. Keep him guessing as to what he can turn and can't.

[earlblue]

Well, unless you are afraid to sound impolite, do a check on the character sheets.

I encourage my players to create their characters on a excel spread sheet. This allows them to list feats, scores and the various bonuses and with a simple 'click' check the end score.

Sometime, players just get their figures wrong. It is nothing to be ashamed. Just do a quick check and explain to them any mistake you find.

There are ways to boost up undeads. A dark skull (DMG) is a wonderful item. Or an unhallowed ground. Not to mention incorporeal undeads that can go through the wall and the ground to attack the players.

Plus, Divide and conquer. If the cleric is the problem, isolate him with a couple of 'wall' spells (IF you have magic users).

USe distraction. a bit of weird sounds here and there add up to the atmosphere. You are talking about a undead heavy scene. There is bound to be a lot of bad vibes and shadows crawling all over the place.

Try this:

"You hear soft moaning somewhat far up ahead. You can't really tell where it comes from, or what can make such a noise. You don't recognize any words... just very, very soft moaning....

You swear that the shadows moved just at the corner of your collective eyes... They seems to be creeping a bit... then stand still as you stare at them..."

Plus, if you can afford it, lit a couple of candles instead of using lights. Dim down the room you are playing in. I am not saying that you should dress as a vampire or something, but some real atmosphere in real life really spice the game up a bit.

You might just spook up the cleirc so much that he attempts to turn literally nothing. If he just use his 'turning' ability radomly blasting away, he won't have any left to deal with the undeads.

OBeQuiet UWannaBe

[Shas aia Toriia]

Also, don't forget to check his character sheet. If he has 11 greater turnings by level 8. . .

[Quietus]

Uh, GREATER turnings? Am I missing something here? As far as I'm aware, Greater Turning is a product of the Sun domain, which means it's usable 1/day. How's he got more than that?

[Shas aia Toriia]

There's a possibility that it was ruled (or misread) that all turnings become greater turnings, and he likely took extra turning once or twice.

[Arbitrarity]

Another option is RSoP.

[Macrovore]

He's probably a Radiant Servant of Pelor, who gets 3+CHA greater turnings per day. I'd check his character sheet. If he has a +8 CHA by lvl8, there may be something wrong. Extra turning only adds to his regular turn undead abilities.

[Arbitrarity]

He's probably a Radiant Servant of Pelor, who gets 3+CHA greater turnings per day. I'd check his character sheet. If he has a +8 CHA by lvl8, there may be something wrong. Extra turning only adds to his regular turn undead abilities.

Hey, I can get +10 charisma by level 8

Just requires some FR splatbooks, and my choice of age/magic items.

[Shas aia Toriia]

Base of 18, + 2 for level 8, +3 for age, + 4 cloak, and I get CHA of 27, or a +8 bonus.

[kjones]

Base of 18, + 2 for level 8, +3 for age, + 4 periapt, and I get Wis of 27, or a +8 bonus.

Isn't Greater Turning for the RSoP based on Charisma, not Wisdom?

[Arbitrarity]

Don't forget being a mageblooded lesser Aasmiir.

Excessive splatbooks? Yes. Relatively gimps cleric casting? Check. Uses cheesy race? Check.

18 + 2 racial + 2 template + 2 age + 2 levels + 4 item. 30.

Note: Charisma. Otherwise, mageblooded would be counterproductive.

If we use wisdom, it becomes much easier. You can get 32 that way. Just use an anthromorphic bat or somesuch.

[Shas aia Toriia]

Yeah, but this isn't optimization, and the cleric wasn't specified as a specific race, so it is probably something core. Nothing core gives a +2 CHA without LA, so. . .

[Arbitrarity]

Hey, I called for my choice of splatbooks

Not the point though. You can get +8, core, but it's difficult and gimps your character. So I'm gonna go with a misinterpretation of extra turning.

[Shas aia Toriia]

Most likely.

I mean, Extra turning is like Extra Wildshape, which increases both elemental and regular shaping, so he likely thought extra turning gave the bonus to greater turning too.

[TSGames]

This is an easy one. Just give the boss some great turning resistance, maybe +6 or so. Other than that, there's always 20 levels of monk...

[Seatbelt]

In ravenloft, undead bosses get 1 (for being in ravenloft, all undead have +1 turn resist), 2...something like 2x wis to turn resist. Apply that. Call them Dark Lords. :P

[Citizen Joe]

It seems to me that this cleric has highly specialized in turning and that is why he is doing so well. Don't gimp him because of it. That's like saying that fighter is killing too many creatures with his sword, I need to take it away from him.

On the other hand, if there is an undead master out there, whose minions are being turned back repeatedly, then he would do something to stop the priest.

As a DM don't screw players for being prepared. But as an adversary, use any tactics you can to accomplish your goals.

[Riffington]

Nobody said to gimp him. But you want challenges to be challenges.
If the cleric is too turnity for your campaign or the fighter is killing enemies too quickly, you can always talk to the player about revising the character to fit in better with the chronicle.

[Zincorium]

Bone golems work well for an undead themed dungeon but are not actually undead.

Core, a mean fun thing to do is have a spellcaster cast animate object on some skeletons. Yeah, they're not a whole lot better than zombies (for medium skeletons) but the look on the player's faces when they simply ignore any turning attempts is priceless.

[Ranis]

I had it wrong, like I thought I would. He's about to plunge his first level of Radiant Servant of Pelor, and he has 11 regular turning uses and one greater.

And, those are good suggestions, from all. I think the golems and animated skeletons are going to work out just superbly. Thanks, guys.

[Shas aia Toriia]

OK.

Topic is now over!