You have chosen... poorly

[Dhavaer]

What spells, maneuvers, items, or the like have you found that are simply awful, either because there's something better that's easier to get or because they're just that bad?

Off the top of my head are Exorcism of Steel (the 3rd level Iron Heart strike) and Greater Divine Surge (8th level Devoted Spirit strike).

Exorcism because it's bad: -4 to damage, doesn't do any damage itself, and there's a save for half effect. Not remotely worth a readied maneuver slot. Probably not worth it if it was 1st level; you could be using Steel Wind or Sapphire Nightmare Blade.

GDS because it actively hurts you: it takes longer to initiate than normal Divine Surge, does less damage, and makes you flatfooted. This for something 4 levels higher. I won't even discuss the Con damage thing.

So, what do you find shockingly bad?

[Skjaldbakka]

Glamered armor. Why buy glamered armor when a hat of disguise is cheaper and does more?

[Jannex]

Glamered armor. Why buy glamered armor when a hat of disguise is cheaper and does more?

To save on an item slot, I guess?

[Reel On, Love]

GDS because it actively hurts you: it takes longer to initiate than normal Divine Surge, does less damage, and makes you flatfooted. This for something 4 levels higher. I won't even discuss the Con damage thing.

So, what do you find shockingly bad?

You're kidding, right? You can burn CON for, what, +2d8 damage per point? Go through 14 CON (out of 18-20ish) and that's 28d8, plus the 6d8 base maneuver damage for 34d8, plus normal damage, and +14 to hit, meaning you're pretty much guaranteed to connect.
BAM! They're dead. Your party goes through 7ish charges of a Wand of Lesser Restoration after. Or the cleric just casts Heal and wipes all the CON damage out... which he can do even if the enemy survives somehow.

Heck, assuming there are enemies left, you can follow up with Strike of Righteous Vitality, and Heal *yourself*.

Greater Divine Surge isn't awful, it's verging on overpowered.

[Morty]

On the top of my head, Shield spell. Unless in very specific circumstances, Mage Armor is just plainly better- it grants the same AC bonus, but lasts for hours/level instead of minute/level.

[Skjaldbakka]

On the top of my head, Shield spell. Unless in very specific circumstances, Mage Armor is just plainly better- it grants the same AC bonus, but lasts for hours/level instead of minute/level.

psst. . . I'll let you in on a secret. Shield and Mage Armor, not shield OR mage armor.

[Captain van der Decken]

You're kidding, right? You can burn CON for, what, +2d8 damage per point? Go through 14 CON (out of 18-20ish) and that's 28d8, plus the 6d8 base maneuver damage for 34d8, plus normal damage, and +14 to hit, meaning you're pretty much guaranteed to connect.
BAM! They're dead. Your party goes through 7ish charges of a Wand of Lesser Restoration after. Or the cleric just casts Heal and wipes all the CON damage out... which he can do even if the enemy survives somehow.

Heck, assuming there are enemies left, you can follow up with Strike of Righteous Vitality, and Heal *yourself*.

Greater Divine Surge isn't awful, it's verging on overpowered.

Yeah. Especially with the Devoted Spirit Legacy weapon - swift action restoration. Burn all but 1 of your con, kill something really big, get all that con straight back again. Or just have the cleric just ready an action.

Being flatfooted usually isn't a problem, anyway (especially for a high-con Crusader), unless you're fighting several rogue-type characters.

[Nebo_]

On the top of my head, Shield spell. Unless in very specific circumstances, Mage Armor is just plainly better- it grants the same AC bonus, but lasts for hours/level instead of minute/level.

Yes, but they stack. Who doesn't want another +4 AC?

Flaming Sphere always struck me as lack lustre; 2d6 fire damage, reflex negates? I'll pass, give me a scorching ray.

[Morty]

psst. . . I'll let you in on a secret. Shield and Mage Armor, not shield OR mage armor.

Yes. But if you have to choose between two spells, and low-level wizard have, due to not having enough spell slots for both, Mage Armor is just plain better.

Yes, but they stack. Who doesn't want another +4 AC?

See above.

[Kurald Galain]

I found that pretty much all of the feats that give +2 to a bunch of skills, or +3 to a single skill, or +2 to a saving throw, or +3 hit points, are generally not worth it, because there are far better feats to take, and in the long run those bonuses are insignificant.

Regarding spells... For wizards they may be ok because more spells never hurt, but for bards and sorcs with their spell limits, these are bad choices:
Hold portal. Detect undead. Burning hands. Magic aura. Animate rope. Erase. Magic weapon. Arcane lock. Obscure object. Darkness. Magic mouth. Misdirection. Phantom trap. Darkvision. Pyrotechnics.

[PlatinumJester]

Detect Undead - yay I can tell if something is a zombie.
Combat Casting - it's called Skill Focus: Concentration.

[The Glyphstone]

The Samurai base class out of CW?

[PlatinumJester]

The Samurai base class out of CW?

Oh hell yes. Why not just be a Fighter with Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialisation etc in bastard sword or play a Warblade who specialises in Diamond Mind Maneuvers and use battle of wills every encounter.

[de-trick]

great cleave by the time you get it you won't be able to kill things in 1 hit

2 weapon fighting a -minus to attack and half str for off hand

any amour ARMOR PROFICIENCY feats if your class does not have it you should not try wearing it

[Shhalahr Windrider]

any amour ARMOR PROFICIENCY feats if your class does not have it you should not try wearing it

Heck, levels are cheaper than feats. You get 20 levels in the same time you get only 7 feats. Dip into Fighter if you really need the proficiency.

[Silkenfist]

Yes. But if you have to choose between two spells, and low-level wizard have, due to not having enough spell slots for both, Mage Armor is just plain better.

Maybe...but

1. there are some classes that have access to Armor Proficiency and are able to cast Arcane spells. They can wear Light Armor and cast Shield on top of it.

2. Your entire point is void anyway. Even if 1) wasn't valid, Shield would still be inferior only in the same sense that Greater Skill Focus is worse than Skill Focus. You use it only if you have already Mage Armor, but if you already have Mage Armor, it further enhances the effect.

[goat]

I found that pretty much all of the feats that give +2 to a bunch of skills, or +3 to a single skill, or +2 to a saving throw, or +3 hit points, are generally not worth it, because there are far better feats to take, and in the long run those bonuses are insignificant.

For some types of low level skill-monkey (such as those built around using one specific skill very well), those feats are near-requirements, especially any that go against a contested roll (bluff, sleight of hand), and anything you need working first time, every time, like UMD and tumble. For anyone trying to play a Truenamer, Skill focus (truenaming) is an essential to have any chance at success.

[Dhavaer]

Skill Focus (concentration) is invaluable to a Diamond Mind adept.

[Starbuck_II]

Yes, but they stack. Who doesn't want another +4 AC?

Flaming Sphere always struck me as lack lustre; 2d6 fire damage, reflex negates? I'll pass, give me a scorching ray.

Yes, but assuming you attack every roud with it: that is 2d6 /round.
Reflex negate sucks, but hey it can attack next round.

[Emperor Tippy]

I actually like Arcane Lock. Especially if you get it made into an at will item. It's kinda expensive (12,000 GP) but it can be worth it if you can get someone to make it at cost (6,000 GP).

As you move through a dungeon or castle you Arcane Lock every door behind you. And it's always nice to keep a little Dust of Locking around, 300 GP for a use activated 1 time use item of Arcane Lock.

[Morty]

1. there are some classes that have access to Armor Proficiency and are able to cast Arcane spells. They can wear Light Armor and cast Shield on top of it.

I belive I covered that in "specific cases" part.

2. Your entire point is void anyway. Even if 1) wasn't valid, Shield would still be inferior only in the same sense that Greater Skill Focus is worse than Skill Focus. You use it only if you have already Mage Armor, but if you already have Mage Armor, it further enhances the effect.

You have to take Skill Focus in order to take Greater Skill Focus, while Shield and Mage Armor are equal spells.

[Silkenfist]

I belive I covered that in "specific cases" part.

OK, this is where I give up. Whatever scenario I present you, you will add it to the "list of specific cases" So far the list of "very specific circumstances" as you called it, extends to:

1. Arcane casters with Armor Proficiency
2. Casters who want additional +4 on top
I'll add 3: Creating a potion for your Melee friend.

But yeah...you are right. Except for these ridiculously specific circumstances you are right. I'll leave it at that.

[bugsysservant]

Um, floating disk? Has anyone ever used that spell? Mount is a better spell, and a light horse can carry up to 175 lbs. and still move 40 ft.

[Morty]

1. Arcane casters with Armor Proficiency

Duskblades, Bards and Hexblades. None of whom, I might add, get any of these two spells. Oh right, Beguilers get Mage Armor. But they don't get Shield.

2. Casters who want additional +4 on top

Yes, as addition to Mage Armor, Shield is useful. But if you want one spell to raise AC, and spell slots don't grow on trees, Mage Armor is just plain better.

I'll add 3: Creating a potion for your Melee friend.

That's one case where Shield might actually be better.

[Kurald Galain]

For some types of low level skill-monkey (such as those built around using one specific skill very well), those feats are near-requirements, especially any that go against a contested roll (bluff, sleight of hand)

Truenaming and concentrations are sensible exceptions. For skill monkeys, the operative word is "low level". By the time you reach level four or five, you're going to wish you had spent all (both) of your feats on things that remain useful on higher levels. I would say that if a character is not reliant on skills, the +2 is going to be irrelevant; whereas if the character is reliant on skills, the +2 is insignificant. You get way, way more skill points than feats; spending one feat for 3 or 4 skill points is a waste.

[Mike_G]

Truenaming and concentrations are sensible exceptions. For skill monkeys, the operative word is "low level". By the time you reach level four or five, you're going to wish you had spent all (both) of your feats on things that remain useful on higher levels. I would say that if a character is not reliant on skills, the +2 is going to be irrelevant; whereas if the character is reliant on skills, the +2 is insignificant. You get way, way more skill points than feats; spending one feat for 3 or 4 skill points is a waste.

I think this is very campaign specific. If you are playing a skillmonkey, and rely on a few skills constantly, Skill Focus or one of the "+2 to two skills" feats can be worth it. That's as good a bonus as +4 or +6 to the relevant stat. And that bonus never goes away, so it's not really wasted at high level. Beating a Beholder's Spot check is not easy, even for a suitably high level Rogue, sometimes it does come down to winning or losing by a point or two.

In straightforward, combat oriented campaigns, skills matter much less and I see your point. In stealth, investigation or political campaigns, this can be vital.

I still say it's a better use of a feat than Toughness.

[JackMage666]

Duskblades, Bards and Hexblades. None of whom, I might add, get any of these two spells. Oh right, Beguilers get Mage Armor. But they don't get Shield.

And Beguilers also get Light Armor Proficiency, if I remember correctly, and Mage Armor gets useless after a Chain Shirt. You also forgot Warmages, Dread Necromancers, and any Caster with a level of Spelltheif who took the feat that allows Light Armor.

Actually, come to think of it, Wizards, Sorcerers, ad Wu Jen are the only ones who don't get to wear armor. It seems a greater majority of arcane casters get to now. Also, any of these classes regret Mage Armor as soon as they get a +1 Twighlight Mithral Shirt, or until they take a level of Spelltheif and the proper feat.

Oh, and Battle Sorcerer, from UA, is effectively a Sorcerer who gets Light Armor as well.

However, it's kinda hard to find a Shield that gives +4 AC. Tower Shields do, but they're big an bulky. You'd need a +3 Light Shield, or a +2 Heavy Shield to get that, which are both out of reach for low level players.

Again, though, regret comes when the player can afford a +3 Mithral Buckler, though that comes considerably more expensive than a +1 Twighlight Mithral Shirt (or just a +1 Chain Shirt, if you can wear light armor.)

[Nerd-o-rama]

Flaming Sphere always struck me as lack lustre; 2d6 fire damage, reflex negates? I'll pass, give me a scorching ray.

First, I don't think any classes get both. If you want to deal damage as a Druid before getting wildshape, you're probably casting this. There's also the fact that it lasts multiple rounds as mentioned above.

Also on the Shield vs. Mage Armor debate: it's a lot easier to get a magical armor bonus from an item (Bracers of Armor), which wouldn't stack with MA, than it is to get a shield bonus. To my knowledge, the only way to get the latter is through a custom item, and whether you can get it is therefore 100% DM dependent.

The point is, Shield stacks with core items and is therefore more useful at higher levels than Mage Armor. Mage Armor is probably still more useful at lower levels.

[Magi_Ring_O]

Um, floating disk? Has anyone ever used that spell? Mount is a better spell, and a light horse can carry up to 175 lbs. and still move 40 ft.

What if you want to get over a floor that is made of metal and burning hot, or electrified. Using floating disk, you can skip it easily. With mount, your horse gets fried. Also, the horse doesn't come with a pack saddle.

[Deepblue706]

On the top of my head, Shield spell. Unless in very specific circumstances, Mage Armor is just plainly better- it grants the same AC bonus, but lasts for hours/level instead of minute/level.

Shield is rather good for a Gish, especially an Abjurant Champion, who uses a two-handed weapon. Other than that usage, though, I agree Mage Armor is significantly better.