Superior Unarmed Strike?

[Kaelik]

I've seen this mentioned a few times on the board. What on Earth is it? What does it do? And where can I find it?

[Neon Knight]

A feat from Tome of Battle. It either grants a character an unarmed damage progression, or treats them as a monk 4 levels higher for determining unarmed damage.

[Hyfigh]

It's a feat in the Tome of Battle book. It improves your characters unarmed strike based either on their monk level or, lacking monk levels, progresses your unarmed damage.

Edit: Blasted ninjas!

[Leon]

Edit: Blasted ninjas!

Better send in some Pirates

[Miraqariftsky]

Interesting. What are its prereqs?

[GeneralTacticus]

Improved Unarmed Strike and BAB +3.

[Miraqariftsky]

Improved Unarmed Strike and BAB +3.

Thanks.

So, if a medium-sized 4th level monk takes Superior Unarmed Strike, her damage dice get bumped up to 1d10 from 1d8?

[Lord Tataraus]

Thanks.

So, if a medium-sized 4th level monk takes Superior Unarmed Strike, her damage dice get bumped up to 1d10 from 1d8?

Yep. But its better if you are an unarmed Swordsage. Also, it stacks with Monk's Belt, so having both will give you unarmed damage of 9 levels higher.

[Miraqariftsky]

Yeah, but looks like it'll work better with a character who's actually a monk.

But then, who am I to judge the swordsage, I who can only access the SRD?

[Person_Man]

It basically makes unarmed combat builds viable. It's also a good idea to take Improved Natural Attack, which increases the size category of any natural weapon (like Monks unarmed strikes) by one step.

For example, Frozen Dwarf Hulk Smash-ish builds usually get 4d8ish damage per hit by mid levels. A Psionic Fist using Expansion can get 8d8. Either works really well with Grapple builds that utilizes Scorpion's Grasp (Sandstorm).

However, its worth noting that Unarmed Strike damage tends to scale well behind Claws of the Beast, Power Attack, Knockback+Dungeoncrasher, charge builds, many Tome of Battle maneuvers. So really, Superior Unarmed Strike is a way to make poor damage output mediocre, not a goal unto itself.

[Lord Tataraus]

I've always wondered this, does a monk's unarmed strike, and superior unarmed strike for that matter, improve the damage of a natural weapon? Improved Natural Attack improves unarmed strike, but does it work the other way around?

[Leon]

I belive not

[Darrin]

It basically makes unarmed combat builds viable. It's also a good idea to take Improved Natural Attack, which increases the size category of any natural weapon (like Monks unarmed strikes) by one step.

It's also worth noting that if you take Superior Unarmed Strike without Monk levels, your unarmed strikes don't count as natural weapons and thus you can't take Improved Natural Attack, which is a unique feature of the Monk's unarmed strike ability.

One quirk about Superior Unarmed Strike is that it's entirely based on class level, and is not adjusted for size. So if you're already small-sized, you can get the equivalent unarmed strike damage of a small monk without the stigma of actually taking monk levels.

However, I'm not entirely sure how something like Fist of the Forest (or SwordSage unarmed adaptation, or Shou Disciple) works if you don't have any monk levels. If you're a non-monk, does FotF give you the same type of unarmed strike as a monk, including the ability to enhance it as a natural attack? If that's the case, then Improved Natural Attack might work.

[Person_Man]

I've always wondered this, does a monk's unarmed strike, and superior unarmed strike for that matter, improve the damage of a natural weapon? Improved Natural Attack improves unarmed strike, but does it work the other way around?

A Monk's unarmed strike is a natural weapon. Thus it can be improved with Improved Natural Attack. However, being a Monk never increases the damage of any other natural weapon, such as claws, bite, etc. If you want to increase the damage of some other natural weapon, you must either increase your size, take the Improved Natural Attack feat for that weapon, take a level of the Warshaper PrC, or buff yourself with specific magic spells, items, or psionic powers.

[Merlin the Tuna]

Yeah, but looks like it'll work better with a character who's actually a monk.

The unarmed Swordsage variant (and I repeat, it is a variant) is basically a suggestion in case you want to say "Y'know what, screw Monks. They're all Swordsages." In this case, the Swordsage would have the Monk's unarmed progression, so it'd be pretty much a wash, except for the part where the Swordsage is pretty much designed better than the monk across the board.

[Miraqariftsky]

Cripes. Ok, how about the Flurry?

[Fax Celestis]

Cripes. Ok, how about the Flurry?

Honestly, the ability to make more attacks in a full attack is crappy for a mobility-centric character, since "mobility" means "you don't stand still" and full attack requires you to not move.

If you really want extra attacks and you're using the Swordsage variant that Merlin's talking about, try maneuvers like Blistering Flourish (I think that's the one).

[Stam]

Or take the feat Snap Kick.

[Miraqariftsky]

Sigh. Thousand thanks, folks. Appreciate it, I do.

But then, all I've got is the SRD--- no bookstores that I know of aroud here sell your fancy sourcebooks at a reasonable price, if at all.

[Merlin the Tuna]

Not to totally harp on you to buy a bunch of supplements a few months before a new edition comes out, but Amazon.com has great prices. Dunno if they ship to the Phillipines, but it's something.

[Miraqariftsky]

Exchange rates and bad economy.

Running odd jobs.

Working student.

Thanks, bub.

Sorry.

^
^
^That was not a poem.

[Jasdoif]

Also, it stacks with Monk's Belt, so having both will give you unarmed damage of 9 levels higher.

No, they don't stack.

[Kaelik]

Well Superior Unarmed Strike for me was looking at a Grappler Build.

House Rule: Bonus Feats you already have can be any class feat.

Build:
Race Goliath (Mountain Rage)
Monk2/Barbarian (Bear Totem) 5/Drunken Master 4/Something else here.

Improved Grapple, Combat Reflexes (Maybe I should take Deflect Arrows), Great Fortitude, and Extra Rage as Bonus Feats. Plus a +4 to Grapple Checks while Raging.

With Superior Unarmed Strike and a few Combat Focus Feats I can lock down most enemies in a grapple.

[Douglas]

I'm pretty sure they do. The exact wording of both the feat and item is "as a Monk X levels higher". Neither one states what it is higher in relation to, and the most sensible default for that imo is "higher than without this feat/item", in which case they stack.

[Fax Celestis]

I'm pretty sure they do. The exact wording of both the feat and item is "as a Monk X levels higher". Neither one states what it is higher in relation to, and the most sensible default for that imo is "higher than without this feat/item", in which case they stack.

If that is the case, do you allow Monkey Grip and Powerful Build to stack too?

[Jasdoif]

I'm pretty sure they do. The exact wording of both the feat and item is "as a Monk X levels higher". Neither one states what it is higher in relation to, and the most sensible default for that imo is "higher than without this feat/item", in which case they stack.

Here's the thing: Neither of them increase the effective monk level. When means both of their bonuses start from the same number. Which means they overlap.

[Lord Tataraus]

No, they don't stack.

Do you realize that that thread, as well as the thread referred for the same reason support that they both stack? And I agree with that conclusion because they are additions. For example, you are a wizard 8/Archmage 5/IotSFV 7. You are casting as a wizard of 20th level, but those are two different classes giving an addition to your wizard level for spell casting, one 5 and the other 7. Therefore, if they don't stack, you would cast as a 15th level wizard (taking the highest addition). However, I can assume that everyone knows that they do in fact stack to give you spell casting as a 20th level wizard.

[Fax Celestis]

Do you realize that that thread, as well as the thread referred for the same reason support that they both stack? And I agree with that conclusion because they are additions. For example, you are a wizard 8/Archmage 5/IotSFV 7. You are casting as a wizard of 20th level, but those are two different classes giving an addition to your wizard level for spell casting, one 5 and the other 7. Therefore, if they don't stack, you would cast as a 15th level wizard (taking the highest addition). However, I can assume that everyone knows that they do in fact stack to give you spell casting as a 20th level wizard.

Notsomuch, no. Those are "effective caster level increases", as per the text of the "+1 spellcasting" feature, and they say "add your levels of X to your spellcasting level to determine...". The item and the feat both say "as a monk X levels higher when determining...", not "add X levels to your monk level to determine...".

[Jasdoif]

Do you realize that that thread, as well as the thread referred for the same reason support that they both stack?

That's a strange conclusion, since both of the threads ended their discussion on the matter in support of my conclusion.

And I agree with that conclusion because they are additions. For example, you are a wizard 8/Archmage 5/IotSFV 7. You are casting as a wizard of 20th level, but those are two different classes giving an addition to your wizard level for spell casting, one 5 and the other 7. Therefore, if they don't stack, you would cast as a 15th level wizard (taking the highest addition). However, I can assume that everyone knows that they do in fact stack to give you spell casting as a 20th level wizard.

That's because Archmage and IotSFV add to your effective Wizard level. Neither Superior Unarmed Strike nor a Monk's Belt add to your effective Monk level.

[PlatinumJester]

Honestly, the ability to make more attacks in a full attack is crappy for a mobility-centric character, since "mobility" means "you don't stand still" and full attack requires you to not move.

If you really want extra attacks and you're using the Swordsage variant that Merlin's talking about, try maneuvers like Blistering Flourish (I think that's the one).

Where is this Swordsage varient?