Freefall 3: Death Ray Byproducts

[Rockphed]

I would think FTL travel or communication in Freefall would be based on real tech or phenomena that we already know can be made or at least probably simulated, so maybe warp bubbles or wormholes or some sort of quantum entanglement stuff. But probably not wormholes or quantum stuff, those are weird, an Alcubierre drive is just more classic and makes more sense in terms of treating it as linear transport where passengers are in transit for a while, rather than establishing a wormhole or something, which you could send a drone to open the other side of the wormhole and and send people through quickly after that. (cryo not required)

Use of cryonic stasis means it's still pretty realistically slow in terms of sci-fi stuff. Space is big. Even if one could travel several times the speed of light, it would still take years, maybe months if it's very fast, but certainly a long time to travel from Sol to Alpha Centauri for example. So based on that, yeah, I think freefall's FTL is probably XC where X is maybe 10 or 20 or something, for cryonic stasis to be necessary.

The one metric we have is that Jean can send messages to Earth by laser (and it takes either 15 or 30 years depending on if the quoted number is one-way or round trip) or it can send them on an FTL ship and expect an answer in about a year.

[Yuki Akuma]

The one metric we have is that Jean can send messages to Earth by laser (and it takes either 15 or 30 years depending on if the quoted number is one-way or round trip) or it can send them on an FTL ship and expect an answer in about a year.

That would put Jean around 15 to 30 light years away from Earth, which is... pretty close, in the grand scheme of things. There's only about a hundred stars within 30 light years of us.

[Rakaydos]

The one metric we have is that Jean can send messages to Earth by laser (and it takes either 15 or 30 years depending on if the quoted number is one-way or round trip) or it can send them on an FTL ship and expect an answer in about a year.

"Expect an answer" is a fuzzy standard. It means that they can make a 15 light year trip in under half a year, but HOW MUCH under is unstated, as it's dependent on ship actually being scheduled to make the trip.

[sihnfahl]

That would put Jean around 15 to 30 light years away from Earth, which is... pretty close, in the grand scheme of things. There's only about a hundred stars within 30 light years of us.

We can further refine it by restricting it to class G stars (similar to our own). Otherwise, there would have to be a bit of genetic modification for photosynthesis, and blue light + UV exposure for humans.

And we only know of 2. Alpha Centauri A, 4.4 LY away, and Tau Ceti, 11.9 LY away. The third, Sigma Draconis, is 18.8LY.

[Lapak]

I would think FTL travel or communication in Freefall would be based on real tech or phenomena that we already know can be made or at least probably simulated, so maybe warp bubbles or wormholes or some sort of quantum entanglement stuff. But probably not wormholes or quantum stuff, those are weird, an Alcubierre drive is just more classic and makes more sense in terms of treating it as linear transport where passengers are in transit for a while, rather than establishing a wormhole or something, which you could send a drone to open the other side of the wormhole and and send people through quickly after that. (cryo not required)

Use of cryonic stasis means it's still pretty realistically slow in terms of sci-fi stuff. Space is big. Even if one could travel several times the speed of light, it would still take years, maybe months if it's very fast, but certainly a long time to travel from Sol to Alpha Centauri for example. So based on that, yeah, I think freefall's FTL is probably XC where X is maybe 10 or 20 or something, for cryonic stasis to be necessary.

I could have sworn that at some point the FTL tech in Freefall was clarified to be warp-bubble-type space manipulation that ran in the reverse of what we normally expect out of relativity. Essentially, from the ship's perspective it is traveling at sublight speed and takes hundreds of years to travel between the stars, but from an outside frame of reference it is traveling at FTL speeds. So the ship has to be equipped with cryo and built to operate on autopilot for centuries but also makes the actual trip far faster.

[halfeye]

I could have sworn that at some point the FTL tech in Freefall was clarified to be warp-bubble-type space manipulation that ran in the reverse of what we normally expect out of relativity. Essentially, from the ship's perspective it is traveling at sublight speed and takes hundreds of years to travel between the stars, but from an outside frame of reference it is traveling at FTL speeds. So the ship has to be equipped with cryo and built to operate on autopilot for centuries but also makes the actual trip far faster.

That would be appalling. There would be no advantage to that sort of FTL travel at all, for the travellers. I'm not saying I remember it being right or wrong in the comic, I'm just agast at the idea.

[Lapak]

That would be appalling. There would be no advantage to that sort of FTL travel at all, for the travellers. I'm not saying I remember it being right or wrong in the comic, I'm just agast at the idea.

For the travellers, no; for the people on the planets on either end of the trip, it allows for supplies, culture, and new colonists to be moved around in a timeframe that's meaningfully useful.

And to be clear, this is completely an IIRC situation; I remember having this broken down at some point but I might be mistaken.

[Jasdoif]

They have FTL communication in the form of FTL ships carrying messages. The details of how the FTL works have not been discussed in comic, but it involves ships that look like push pops and freezing people.

And manipulating space/time density, apparently.

[Anarchic Fox]

Would someone link the comics that have information about Jean's star? My attempts at using Freefall's search function haven't been fruitful.

[Rockphed]

Would someone link the comics that have information about Jean's star? My attempts at using Freefall's search function haven't been fruitful.

I'm not sure Jean's Star ever gets mentioned. I know Jean was pretty barren before the humans colonized but I don't remember anything about the star.

Edit: and I found where she mentions the laser and I was wrong: she expects an answer in fifteen years, so wherever she expects an answer from is 7.5 light years away. It might be the distance to the research station she was intended to go to before Sam stole her.

Also, the Asimov is expected back in a year in the same comic.

[Anarchic Fox]

Edit: and I found where she mentions the laser and I was wrong: she expects an answer in fifteen years, so wherever she expects an answer from is 7.5 light years away. It might be the distance to the research station she was intended to go to before Sam stole her.

Thanks for the info! I doubt the 7.5 ly is to Earth, since there's nothing but red/brown dwarves at that distance from Earth. Sirius is about 8.7 ly away, and has the bonus of being part of the "Alpha Canis Majoris" system, which you could translate as the first big doggy system. However, the joke about the name "Jean" was that planets are so common that naming them has become humdrum, so I doubt we're anywhere close to Earth.

Vaguely related, I recently learned that the RMS velocity of nearby stars is about 10^(-4) c relative to the Sun, which sounds slow, but is still twice as fast as any of the probes produced to date.

[sihnfahl]

I'm not sure Jean's Star ever gets mentioned.

It's really only mentioned in passing. Florence talks about it when Sam asks about the radiation exposure starships get.

Thanks for the info! I doubt the 7.5 ly is to Earth, since there's nothing but red/brown dwarves at that distance from Earth.

And I doubt it'd be Alpha Centauri, because ... well, it's closer, and as you said, there's so many inhabited planets that naming them got humdrum. And AC would pretty much be #1 on the list of systems to try to colonize.

So we're really so far out that we can just call it 'Generic G Sequence Star System' and leave it at that.

[Kantaki]

New comic

I really don't like agreeing with Sam, but not blowing up solar systems sounds like a good idea.

[Rockphed]

New comic

I really don't like agreeing with Sam, but not blowing up solar systems sounds like a good idea.

Why do you reflexively assume that Sam is wrong? Just because he is a larcenous space squid with delusions of godhood doesn't mean he is wrong.

All hail our Sqid overlords!

[theangelJean]

Hmm. I wonder how much power robots would have as "potential consumers" - i.e. "rich" - as compared to actual consumers?

[Rockphed]

Hmm. I wonder how much power robots would have as "potential consumers" - i.e. "rich" - as compared to actual consumers?

To paraphrase various financial people, there are only 3 things you can do with money: spend it, save/invest it, or give it away (or destroy it). Are you suggesting that the robots could gain power by accumulating wealth with the intent to judiciously invest it?

[Psionic Dog]

Is it me or is Sam being unusually generous?

He has a direct financial incentive to save the station money, but is telling the robots to charge as much as they can for their work. I suppose "teaching robots to be greedy" might be a civic service to him, but I'm still waiting for his payout. Maybe he is about to suggest they invest their money in his idea of converting the station into a cycler?

[Willie the Duck]

Is it me or is Sam being unusually generous?

He has a direct financial incentive to save the station money, but is telling the robots to charge as much as they can for their work. I suppose "teaching robots to be greedy" might be a civic service to him, but I'm still waiting for his payout. Maybe he is about to suggest they invest their money in his idea of converting the station into a cycler?

I suspect there's a bit of Sam being the mouthpiece for the author ('s exposition). Also that Stanley realizes that robots (given the existing framing) would do X in this situation, needs them to instead do Y, and is using Sam (perhaps unusually, but I'm sure we'll see a justification) to get them moving in that direction.

As for Watsonian explanation -- I suspect the logic is that Sam can't profit from the station manager winning (making the robots do the work for free), but can profit from a station full of gainfully employed and compensated human and robotic citizens with plenty of spending cash (made possible by whatever deus ex machina the author decides will make the station profitable again, telegraphed to likely be the cycler).

[Radar]

Is it me or is Sam being unusually generous?

He has a direct financial incentive to save the station money, but is telling the robots to charge as much as they can for their work. I suppose "teaching robots to be greedy" might be a civic service to him, but I'm still waiting for his payout. Maybe he is about to suggest they invest their money in his idea of converting the station into a cycler?

Might be the case, but his behavior is not that different from how he was before. He is a self-centered thief, but he is all about sustainable theft, which requires other people to prosper as otherwise there is nothing worth stealing.

Keep also in mind he was responsible for teaching robots how to be thieves and was extremely active in teaching Florence how to broaden her freedom and use various tricks to interact with humans more efficiently. I am not sure what his altruism is motivated with, but maybe he simply is a decent person trying to teach others values that in his mind will make them prosper.

[Fyraltari]

Sam just isn't as selfish as he likes to claim. He seems to really dislike people being exploited and will often encourage people to stand up for themselves and not let themselves be abused.

He does what he can to profit from his own actions, but he's also genuinely a helpful guy at heart.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Is it me or is Sam being unusually generous?

Nope. I think the latest strip hints at what Sam is trying to achieve/avoid: chaos/boredom. A universe in which the robots are just perfect little slaves would be a universe of boredom, stagnation and order. And Sam thrives on chaos, change and fun, so he is pushing robots towards his point of view.

GW

[WanderingMist]

Sam just isn't as selfish as he likes to claim. He seems to really dislike people being exploited and will often encourage people to stand up for themselves and not let themselves be abused.

He does what he can to profit from his own actions, but he's also genuinely a helpful guy at heart.

Don't be ridiculous. Sam doesn't like people being exploited to the point there is nothing left to exploit. He is, after all, a fan of Mr. Kornada, but knows Kornada is an amateur at exploitation.

[theangelJean]

I am not sure what his altruism is motivated with, but maybe he simply is a decent person trying to teach others values that in his mind will make them prosper.

Isn't that what Sam has been saying this whole time? He wants to teach everyone the way of the Sqid. He's never claimed to want to keep anyone in the dark. He's an honest Sqid, too (this is my gut feeling, but I think he tricks rather than lies). And he's previously expressed gratitude for all he has learnt from humans, so why wouldn't he want to return the favour?

[sihnfahl]

Don't be ridiculous. Sam doesn't like people being exploited to the point there is nothing left to exploit. He is, after all, a fan of Mr. Kornada, but knows Kornada is an amateur at exploitation.

IIRC, Sam was impressed that Kornada rose as high as he was, despite his obvious incompetence, just by knowing the right things to do and say.

He wasn't so impressed that Kornada's plans would have locked up a lot of the 'pot' in Kornada's greasy mitts...

[Anarchic Fox]

My take is that selfishness and selflessness are concepts that don't map onto Sqid ethics. So when Sam offers good advice without requiring anything in return, he doesn't view this as an ethical conflict.

To put it another way, we've seen that sqids value theft. That doesn't stop them from also valuing gift-giving and generosity. I could see Robin Hood being a sqid hero.

[WanderingMist]

IIRC, Sam was impressed that Kornada rose as high as he was, despite his obvious incompetence, just by knowing the right things to do and say.

He wasn't so impressed that Kornada's plans would have locked up a lot of the 'pot' in Kornada's greasy mitts...

That's only because Sam's opinion was that their money should be locked up in his own greasy mitts.

[Radar]

My take is that selfishness and selflessness are concepts that don't map onto Sqid ethics. So when Sam offers good advice without requiring anything in return, he doesn't view this as an ethical conflict.

To put it another way, we've seen that sqids value theft. That doesn't stop them from also valuing gift-giving and generosity. I could see Robin Hood being a sqid hero.

Sam likes to be challenged and pulling off a crazy scheme means often more to him than earning loads of money. He does a lot of illegal things for the fun of it. I'd say that sqids perceive theft a bit like a sport (aside from direct profits) and that comes with a healthy dose of sportsmanship, so in order to be fair (and foster a more interesting environment) he helps out the people around.

[Anarchic Fox]

Sam likes to be challenged and pulling off a crazy scheme means often more to him than earning loads of money. He does a lot of illegal things for the fun of it. I'd say that sqids perceive theft a bit like a sport (aside from direct profits) and that comes with a healthy dose of sportsmanship, so in order to be fair (and foster a more interesting environment) he helps out the people around.

That sounds plausible. The fun of thievery is more important than what's being stolen.

[Rockphed]

That's only because Sam's opinion was that their money should be locked up in his own greasy mitts.

Locked up? No, money in Sam's mitts would flow freely and quickly away from him. He understands money gives power, but (aside from some Scrooge McDucking) he would quickly find uses for any vast sum of money that he acquired. The universe is probably better off that he doesn't have the funds to build monuments to his own greatness since seeing him too clearly tends to make humans blind.

[Radar]

The universe is probably better off that he doesn't have the funds to build monuments to his own greatness since seeing him too clearly tends to make humans blind.

Correction: after seeing Sam people wish they were blind.