Simple RAW for Pathfinder Thread VI: Return of the Red Die

[Psyren]

A297: The only way I'm aware of for it to count as an item is the Psicrystal Weapon feat from Psicrystals Expanded. As the name implies, this limits your choice to it being a weapon. It doesn't specifically say it becomes an intelligent item though (i.e. no ego score.)

[Segev]

A297: The only way I'm aware of for it to count as an item is the Psicrystal Weapon feat from Psicrystals Expanded. As the name implies, this limits your choice to it being a weapon. It doesn't specifically say it becomes an intelligent item though (i.e. no ego score.)

Thanks for the answer.

New, unrelated question (despite also being psionics):

Q298: Did Pathfinder's psionics rules remove the ability to manifest powers from Power Stones using the rules for manifesting powers from another source? I'm looking at the SRD and only see rules for accessing them from other psionic creatures, and the only mention of Power Stones is that creatures which can't address them can't access powers known by other creatures. If it did not remove that feature, can somebody please point me to where in the rules that feature still exists?

Q298a: Assuming it exists, is it specific to Power Stones, or can dorjes be similarly accessed?

[Cieyrin]

A 298 As far as I can tell, comparing Ultimate Psionics to the Expanded Psionic Handbook, the power stone language was specifically removed.

[Ajustusdaniel]

Q299: Is there an easier way by RAW then I've gone into down below to establish that a successful stealth check, in the absence of flanking or another circumstance denying the target it's dexterity to AC, allows a sneak attack?

As far as I've gotten:

The rogueÂ’s attack deals extra damage anytime her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the rogue flanks her target.

Your Stealth check is opposed by the Perception check of anyone who might notice you. Creatures that fail to beat your Stealth check are not aware of you and treat you as if you had total concealment.

Total Concealment
If you have line of effect to a target but not line of sight, he is considered to have total concealment from you. You canÂ’t attack an opponent that has total concealment, though you can attack into a square that you think he occupies. A successful attack into a square occupied by an enemy with total concealment has a 50% miss chance (instead of the normal 20% miss chance for an opponent with concealment).

You canÂ’t execute an attack of opportunity against an opponent with total concealment, even if you know what square or squares the opponent occupies.

I see nothing in the text of total concealment about denying Dexterity to AC. However!

Perception has a number of uses, the most common of which is an opposed check versus an opponentÂ’s Stealth check to notice the opponent and avoid being surprised. If you are successful, you notice the opponent and can react accordingly. If you fail, your opponent can take a variety of actions, including sneaking past you and attacking you.

Armor Class (AC), provided that the character can react to the attack.

So the implication is that if you do not succeed in the perception check opposed by a stealth role, you do not notice the target and therefore cannot react to them. Therefore, you do not apply your dexterity to your armor class, and are thus, at last, subject to a sneak attack.

So that's good. That feels like the right answer. But I feel like I've come an awful long way to find textual support for what seems like it should be a fairly intuitive part of the ability. Am I missing an obvious line somewhere that resolves this more elegantly?

[Seto]

A299: I think you have the right of it. It seems like an obvious houserule to implement, and is likely RAI, but it looks like attacking from hiding in combat (that is to say, outside of a possible surprise round) does not explicitly deny your opponent DEX to AC. This is worth contrasting with the Invisible and Blinded conditions:

Invisible creatures are visually undetectable. An invisible creature gains a +2 bonus on attack rolls against sighted opponents, and ignores its opponents’ Dexterity bonuses to AC (if any).

The creature cannot see. It takes a –2 penalty to Armor Class, loses its Dexterity bonus to AC (if any), and takes a –4 penalty on most Strength– and Dexterity-based skill checks and on opposed Perception skill checks. All checks and activities that rely on vision (such as reading and Perception checks based on sight) automatically fail. All opponents are considered to have total concealment (50% miss chance) against the blinded character.

Invisibility or blinding your opponent grants you total concealment and also allows you to ignore their DEX to AC, but total concealment itself does not explicitly do so, outside the rules interpretation that you suggested, relying on multiple sources to infer that an opponent can't react to your attack. By RAW, one would be within their rights to rule that you don't get sneak attack, however counterintuitive.

It's also worth nothing that second edition solved this by introducing the "Hidden" condition, which makes your opponent flatfooted to you.

[Rynjin]

Keep in mind that it is not just a matter of making a Stealth check; there are conditions that need to be met prior to you being "in Stealth"; having concealment, the target being unaware of your presence, and there being no direct line of sight from the person you're hiding from to you chief among them.

You can't just walk up to a guy, roll Stealth, and then Sneak Attack them. Even with Hide in Plain Sight (though that ability does make it easier to do something similar).

[Fenryr]

Q300

Song of the Fallen (Su): At 14th level, a skald can temporarily revive dead allies to continue fighting, with the same limitations as raise dead. The skald selects a dead ally within 60 feet and expends 1 round of raging song to bring that ally back to life. The revived ally is alive but staggered. Each round, the skald may expend another 1 round of raging song to keep that ally alive for another round. The ally automatically dies if the skald ends this performance or is interrupted. The skald may revive multiple allies with this ability (either at the same time or over successive rounds) but must expend 1 round of raging song per revived ally per round to maintain the effect.

Skald.

Ally is dead at -40. Ally gets revived with Song of the Fallen. Ally gets healed 20 HP. Song is cancelled and the ally dies again. The ally dies again at -40? The ally dies at -Constitution? What about the healing received? Can you use Breath of Life on an ally that revived and died with Song of the Fallen?

[Ajustusdaniel]

Keep in mind that it is not just a matter of making a Stealth check; there are conditions that need to be met prior to you being "in Stealth"; having concealment, the target being unaware of your presence, and there being no direct line of sight from the person you're hiding from to you chief among them.

You can't just walk up to a guy, roll Stealth, and then Sneak Attack them. Even with Hide in Plain Sight (though that ability does make it easier to do something similar).

Sure. The specific circumstance I had in mind when I started this exploration was a couple of ambushers who are already in hiding at the beginning of the combat, but don't necessarily attack on the first round.

[Psyren]

Q299: Is there an easier way by RAW then I've gone into down below to establish that a successful stealth check, in the absence of flanking or another circumstance denying the target it's dexterity to AC, allows a sneak attack?

As far as I've gotten:



I see nothing in the text of total concealment about denying Dexterity to AC.

That's because it's not the most relevant part of that rule for sneak attack purposes. The part to focus on is not the concealment, but the awareness:

Your Stealth check is opposed by the Perception check of anyone who might notice you. Creatures that fail to beat your Stealth check are not aware of you and treat you as if you had total concealment.

Total Concealment does not, on its own, deny your target their dex bonus; they must also not know where you're attacking from. Ultimate Intrigue's "States of Awareness" defines these more granularly - your target can be either completely unaware you exist (caught entirely by surprise), or can know you're around but nothing else (as is the case with a sniper or an invisible attacker who have succeeded at their respective Stealth checks upon attacking.) But if you're not in one of those two categories, your concealment doesn't matter for your ability to sneak attack. There is no direct link between concealment and denying Dex, because it's possible to have total concealment, but your target to still be able to perceive or react to your attack.

A300: It's unclear what is intended to happen if you heal the target of this song ability. By RAW the ally dies once the performance ends, so the best use for it seems to be to reset the clock for things like Breath of Life. As far as how many hitpoints they have, that isn't clear either. (3.5 had a rule that dead characters automatically have -10 but I don't think PF kept that one, in part because they changed to -Con for HP-related deaths.)

[unseenmage]

Q301
Mnemonic Siphon on a Spell Storing Item, what even happens?

[Rynjin]

A301: Depends on what you actually mean.

If you cast the spell on a Spell Storing item, the same thing happens as if you cast it on any object.

If you mean what happens when you cast it INTO a Spell Storing object; nothing save that you've wasted its Spell Storing ability. Spell Storing specifies you need to target a creature with the cast spell, where this spell specifies it can only be cast on objects.

[unseenmage]

A301: Depends on what you actually mean.

If you cast the spell on a Spell Storing item, the same thing happens as if you cast it on any object.

If you mean what happens when you cast it INTO a Spell Storing object; nothing save that you've wasted its Spell Storing ability. Spell Storing specifies you need to target a creature with the cast spell, where this spell specifies it can only be cast on objects.

Apologies, I mean the Siphon on the item then someone else tries to store a spell on it.

[Drelua]

A 301

Since Spell Storing says you can cast a spell into it, I would say you're still casting the spell, so Mnemonic Siphon would function the same as if you had cast the spell normally. You'd roll the 10% chance of the spell being absorbed if it's on the list of the person that cast the siphon. I believe the same would happen when someone tries to use the stored spell, since Spell Storing says the spell is "cast from the weapon," so the holder is still casting it.

What I'm not sure on is if you cast Mnemonic Siphon on an item then try to cast another spell while in possession of the item, can you Siphon your own spell? That's another question though.

[TIPOT]

Q302

At what spell level do the spells from the Oracle Curse feature get added? Is it the highest level currently available to the Oracle or is there some other way of determining?

[Seto]

A302: I'm not sure what you mean? Curses that add spell usually make it quite clear when they come into effect.

At 5th level, add Pox pustules to your list of 2nd-level oracle spells known.

All curses that add spells are written the same way.

If you meant the Mystery feature (the other big source of bonus spells for Oracles), then that's quite clear as well: "At 2nd level, and every two levels thereafter, an oracle learns an additional spell derived from her mystery." The specific spells for each specific level are written for each mystery.

[TIPOT]

A302: I'm not sure what you mean? Curses that add spell usually make it quite clear when they come into effect.
All curses that add spells are written the same way.

If you meant the Mystery feature (the other big source of bonus spells for Oracles), then that's quite clear as well: "At 2nd level, and every two levels thereafter, an oracle learns an additional spell derived from her mystery." The specific spells for each specific level are written for each mystery.

They aren't all written the same way though. Only some curses specify levels for spells, how do you determine for those that don't?

[Seto]

They aren't all written the same way though. Only some curses specify levels for spells, how do you determine for those that don't?

A302 follow-up: Okay, I've looked at Curses more in-depth (excluding 3rd-party). A large number is written in the way I presented, where it specifies the spell level. No problem there. It seems to point it out especially in cases where an ambiguity is possible, e.g. when a spell has a different level for different classes. Some spell levels are not specified, but there's no reasonable ambiguity because it's the same level for every class that gets it. Finally, some are not specified, and possibly ambiguous. Let's look at the Pranked curse, which provides examples for all three.

In addition to any social consequences of such mischief, you take a –4 penalty on initiative checks. Furthermore, whenever you attempt to retrieve a stored item from your gear, there’s a 25% chance that you fail to find it with that action. Add faerie fire and ghost sound to your list of spells known.

At 5th level, add glitterdust and minor image to your list of spells known.

At 10th level, add confusion to your list of spells known as a 5th-level spell.

At 15th level, add project image to your list of spells known. A possessed oracle can select this curse in place of the haunted curse.

Faerie Fire (lvl 1), Ghost Sound (cantrip), Glitterdust and Minor Image (lvl 2) are unambiguous, they're the same level for every class that gets them - and there are quite a few. Confusion is ambiguous, as it's mostly 4th level, but can be as low as 3rd (Bard) or as high as 5th (entropy domain). Therefore, they specify that for you, it's 5th level. Finally, Project Image is ambiguous (bard 6, sorcerer/wizard 7; Subdomain deception 7) and unspecified, so you have to tell from context. In that case, both full-casting classes get it as a 7th ; Bards (and Paladins, etc.) tend to have different spell levels. As an Oracle, you're more akin to a Sorcerer (same progression) or a Cleric (divine casting) than anything else, so by analogy, you get Project Image as a 7th level spell. Plus, it happens to be your current highest level, so that also makes sense.
When ambiguous and unspecified, proceed from context. You get the spell at the same level as other full casters by default, especially when Clerics can get it via domains. Look at the Haunted Curse, which gives you Reverse Gravity at level 15: it's (druid 8, sorcerer/wizard 7; Domain void 7; Elemental School earth 7). You're most similar to a Cleric, plus you can't cast 8th levels spells yet, so you get it as a 7th.

Is there a specific spell in a specific curse that's tripping you up?

[unseenmage]

Q303
If one were to melt down a PF clockwork Construct what materials would one get?

Asking here because I'm hoping there's mention of the materials used in their construction somewhere.

[Rynjin]

A303: Seems like something where "ask your GM" is the RAW response for the most part; the Clockwork basics only specify they're made of metal, though some specific variants (eg. the Clockwork Angel, made of "Brass, bronze, and silver components") do give you the answer somewhere, though not in what proportions.

[TheFamilarRaven]

Q304 Was just reading through some alchemist archetypes for fun. I found this piece of txt that made me wonder if this is RAW.

Fast Ordnance: A gun chemist with this discovery can fire more than one piece of alchemical ordnance as part of a full attack. A gun chemist must be at least 8th level before selecting this discovery.

Relevant text bolded. There are probably other instances of this format occurring in other archetypes/classes, this is just the first time I noticed it.

Does this mean that a level 6 gunslinger/level 2 alchemist(gun chemist) can select Fast ordnance as a discovery since they are level 8? This seems odd to me as according to the table for discoveries it seems typical that you need a certain amount of alchemist levels specifically for discoveries.

[Rynjin]

Q304 Was just reading through some alchemist archetypes for fun. I found this piece of txt that made me wonder if this is RAW.



Relevant text bolded. There are probably other instances of this format occurring in other archetypes/classes, this is just the first time I noticed it.

Does this mean that a level 6 gunslinger/level 2 alchemist(gun chemist) can select Fast ordnance as a discovery since they are level 8? This seems odd to me as according to the table for discoveries it seems typical that you need a certain amount of alchemist levels specifically for discoveries.

A304: Any reference to level found in a class refers to CLASS LEVEL rather than character level, unless otherwise specifically stated. See also the wording on Vigilante Talents, as an other example that leaps to mind. "Must be at least X level" is common phrasing for modular class options which aren't on a standard table which would otherwise list the prerequisites. You need to be a level 8 Alchemist to take Fast Ordnance.

[TheFamilarRaven]

Q305: I'm kinda the rules guy at my table. I have a fellow player that is playing a Druid with a tylosaurus companion. As per this table for animal companion/familiar item slots, a tylosaurus does not have a slot for armor. I am assuming this to mean he can't buy barding for his animal companion. Is this correct? (I'm sure the DM will let him anyways, but I'm curious as to the RAW).

[Rynjin]

Q305: I'm kinda the rules guy at my table. I have a fellow player that is playing a Druid with a tylosaurus companion. As per this table for animal companion/familiar item slots, a tylosaurus does not have a slot for armor. I am assuming this to mean he can't buy barding for his animal companion. Is this correct? (I'm sure the DM will let him anyways, but I'm curious as to the RAW).

A305: Yes, it looks like by RAW (sort of), the tylosaurus has no armor slot, and so can't equip armor though the note does ensure that a certain amount of flexibility is also part of the RAW: "Note that the rules in this section are merely suggestions, and ultimately it is up to the GM to decide what kinds of animals can use particular types of magic items.".

For a table going purely by RAW, the question is still one with wiggle room built in, likely purposefully.

[Cieyrin]

A 305 addendum Rynjin is correct, though there is an exception they made specifically to address the armor slot for creature types that cannot normally have armor, armor stitches. It didn't make the jump to Ultimate Wilderness from Animal Archive but it's still a valid item if they want a way to armor their companion (though somewhat painfully).

[Bearserker]

Q306 Is it possible to buy an "extra rage power" feat as soon as level 1 (or rogue talents for rogues, etc.) ?
The prerequisite is "Rage power class feature" but It's unclear if all barbarians have this feature from lvl 1 (and this feature grants a rage power every 2 lvl) or if they must have their first "Rage Power" (so they have to be lvl 2)

Q307 If Q306's answer is "the barbarian have to be lvl 2", what happens for archetypes that trade their lvl 2 rage power for a non-rage ability (such as the Pack Rager) ? Do they have to wait for lvl 4 ?

Q308 May an human barbarian choose the alternate favored class option to increase superstition before getting the superstition rage power ?

[ezekielraiden]

Q306 Is it possible to buy an "extra rage power" feat as soon as level 1 (or rogue talents for rogues, etc.) ?
The prerequisite is "Rage power class feature" but It's unclear if all barbarians have this feature from lvl 1 (and this feature grants a rage power every 2 lvl) or if they must have their first "Rage Power" (so they have to be lvl 2)

Q307 If Q306's answer is "the barbarian have to be lvl 2", what happens for archetypes that trade their lvl 2 rage power for a non-rage ability (such as the Pack Rager) ? Do they have to wait for lvl 4 ?

Q308 May an human barbarian choose the alternate favored class option to increase superstition before getting the superstition rage power ?

A306: Being Barb 1 does not give you any rage powers, so you don't qualify for the feat. Bloodragers, for example, don't qualify even though they get rage.

A307: Correct. Until you actually get at least one Rage Power of your own, you don't have the class feature. Likewise for things that trade away Rogue Talents or in any other way put off getting a feature until a later level than normal.

Not entirely sure about the answer to your last question, but I'm fairly sure you can, you just wouldn't get any benefit from it until you actually have that Rage Power.

[Psyren]

A306-308 addendum: There is a neat and fully-sanctioned way to spend your first feat on Extra Rage Power - by retraining your feats at a later level. This FAQ explains the process, but essentially - because your level 2+ barbarian now has the "Rage Power" class feature, they now qualify for Extra Rage Power, and any number of their existing feats can be reassigned to it as a result. This allows you to take early-game feats like Toughness at low levels, and then pay to swap them out for more powerful ones once they're no longer needed.

[Sloanzilla]

Q309 (I believe): Monk's Abundant Step. It says it works "like dimension door" but also says it is a move action. So can you abundant step then attack once as a standard action or not?

[Cieyrin]

A 309 No but that's not b/c it's a move action; it's b/c Abundant Step didn't remove the following clause in Dimension Door:

After using this spell, you can't take any other actions until your next turn.

If you have Dimension Agility and you still have a Standard action left, you can definitely punch someone after folding space.

[Zhentarim]

Q310 Does Cure Light Wounds also stabilize a dying creature, even if they are not brought above 0 HP?