Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning threads

[Aquillion]

The author has said that she would be the strongest demiurge if not for her "flights of fancy", which we now know is because knowing everything will be reset makes it kind of hard to give it her all. From this, we can assume that in the first few loops, when she hadn't yet burned out, she was able to easily suppress the other demiurges and take control.

She still could, there just isn't any point to it now because she (presumably) already tried everything she could think of to break the loop and knows that that route isn't going to work.

[BRC]

I doubt that distributing your consciousness across a vast wormy hive-mind helps with the whole sanity situation.


Although this does raise a question. I've assumed that Zoss has awareness of previous loops, but if Gog-Agog had to become a wormmind to hold all that memory, how does Zoss have it?

Jagganoth seems to be in a similar situation. Perhaps the two of them, unlike Your Pal Gog-Agog, have simply allowed themselves to forget more about the previous loops.

[InvisibleBison]

Although this does raise a question. I've assumed that Zoss has awareness of previous loops, but if Gog-Agog had to become a wormmind to hold all that memory, how does Zoss have it?

Jagganoth seems to be in a similar situation. Perhaps the two of them, unlike Your Pal Gog-Agog, have simply allowed themselves to forget more about the previous loops.

Gog-Agog specifies that she needed more physical data storage. Perhaps Zoss isn't storing his data physically. Or perhaps the "Zoss" that we see is just a bit of him, and he's got a giant blob of brain-flesh somewhere in the multiverse.

[Thales]

Gog-Agog's description of the situation differs from Jagganoth's in one way that leapt out to me: she doesn't mention Metatron at all. According to Jagganoth, Metatron is the real puppetmaster, and Zoss is doing all this at his behest. Does Gog-Agog not know about this, does she consider Metatron unimportant to the current discussion, or is Jagganoth just wrong?

It occurs to me that we have no particular idea how things get reset or why they're getting reset. Presumably there is some desired goal? Do things get reset if they don't fall into universally-devastating war? Or has that simply never happened?

[Durkoala]

Gog-Agog's description of the situation differs from Jagganoth's in one way that leapt out to me: she doesn't mention Metatron at all. According to Jagganoth, Metatron is the real puppetmaster, and Zoss is doing all this at his behest. Does Gog-Agog not know about this, does she consider Metatron unimportant to the current discussion, or is Jagganoth just wrong?

Judt noting this as I haven't seen anyone bring it up before, but Juggernaut Star, the other witness of the loops, did bring up Metatron, but claimed that he was Zoss' slave running the resets according to Zoss' desires. So that's three different accounts on what Metatron and Zoss' roles are in this business. Maybe Gog-Agog will clarify more later, but it's interesting that Jagganoth claims Metatron is the master, Juggernaut Star says he's the slave and Gog-Agog doesn't mention him at all.

[lord_khaine]

The revelation that Gog-Agog remembers every iteration of the universe is staggering.
But what i mostly ended focused upon is the Dynamic between Solomon and White Chain.
Increasingly more Father/daughter it feels.
Yes. a moment before getting eaten by a huge fish IS the time to critique footwork xD

[Eldan]

I like the priorities.
Giant monster? Meh.
Saving the universe? Meh.
SLOPPY FOOTWORK?!

[Rydiro]

Judt noting this as I haven't seen anyone bring it up before, but Juggernaut Star, the other witness of the loops, did bring up Metatron, but claimed that he was Zoss' slave running the resets according to Zoss' desires. So that's three different accounts on what Metatron and Zoss' roles are in this business. Maybe Gog-Agog will clarify more later, but it's interesting that Jagganoth claims Metatron is the master, Juggernaut Star says he's the slave and Gog-Agog doesn't mention him at all.

My guess is, Zoss is "outside causality", but he remembers about as much as Jagg.
Zoss is Zaid. Zoss so far always chose Zaid. Zaid sees the world end and travels back in time, becoming the conquering king. Thats why Zoss does know the future, he has been there.
Metatron/Michael are monarchists now, manipulating fate so that this cycle repeats itself. The king is dead, long live the king.
The Gate of Earth is closed, because no one wants to interfere with the timeline that spawns Zaid.

[Thales]

Okay, I wasn't too interested in the fighting a fish arc, but this one was genuinely funny.

[InvisibleBison]

I wonder - has any angel ever learned Ki Rata before now? The core of Ki Rata is a breathing technique, and I don't think angels breathe, since they are made out of energy.

[Gez]

I wonder - has any angel ever learned Ki Rata before now? The core of Ki Rata is a breathing technique, and I don't think angels breathe, since they are made out of energy.

10 Vigilant Gaze Purges the Horizon was coughing for a while until he got rid of the dust build-up in his body. So I suppose they don't need to breathe when they don't move, but they do while active. Perhaps kind of like how a computer needs its fans when it's on. It's not breathing, per se, but it does need air flow nonetheless.

Also it's probably relevant that White Chain's new body is not at all like the golem shells that angels use. She's a lot more human-like.

[InvisibleBison]

10 Vigilant Gaze Purges the Horizon was coughing for a while until he got rid of the dust build-up in his body. So I suppose they don't need to breathe when they don't move, but they do while active. Perhaps kind of like how a computer needs its fans when it's on. It's not breathing, per se, but it does need air flow nonetheless.

Hmm, interesting. I guess whether or not angels can use Ki Rata depends on whether they can duplicate the breathing techniques with their air flow.

Also it's probably relevant that White Chain's new body is not at all like the golem shells that angels use. She's a lot more human-like.

This is very true. It's not clear to me whether White Chain is in fact still an angel or something new. Have we seen her step outside of her new body at some point the way angels can leave their armor?

[Rydiro]

You know, three days before the end of the world Solomon finally decides to teach ki rata to someone else.
The demiurges are really bad at thinking outside of their box.

Gog too, she is the only one who remembers. And litterally wastes all time clowning.

[mystic1110]

And litterally wastes all time clowning.

Gog remembers that nothing they have ever tried has ever worked and is dealing with such Absurdism by being Absurd. For Gog, it's not the end of the world, but instead just a looming reset.

[Gez]

Gog remembers that nothing they have ever tried has ever worked and is dealing with such Absurdism by being Absurd. For Gog, it's not the end of the world, but instead just a looming reset.

When you feel that you're powerless -- and if Gog is not lying about remembering countless times that despite all her godlike powers, she couldn't stop the universe from going to hell and getting reset, she's certainly feeling powerless -- then clowning about may as well be the best thing you can do.

There's a quote that goes something like "humor is despair's way of being polite", and I think that it explains Gog quite well.

[Anarchic Fox]

A long ways back, she said something like, "I'm the only one who tries to make things nice for everyone." Granted, she does so by having them swallow a parasite and become part of the collective, but it's a way of dealing with inevitable apocalypse.

[Rydiro]

Gog remembers that nothing they have ever tried has ever worked and is dealing with such Absurdism by being Absurd. For Gog, it's not the end of the world, but instead just a looming reset.

While that is true, she could easily be more powerful/impactful than any other character seen so far. I don't see how she has failed to stop anyone.
Claim all keys before the demiurges are even born? Easy. Learn enough magic and martial arts to stomp anyone? Just do it as a sidequest during one loop.
Actually learn something about the other players? Have a normal conversation.
I mean, the demiurges seem all incapable of that last bit.

So far it has been implied that Jagganoth brings the end of the world. And she is stronger than him. So why would the world end at all, if she really tried?

[mystic1110]

So far it has been implied that Jagganoth brings the end of the world. And she is stronger than him. So why would the world end at all, if she really tried?

He only brings the end of the world in this cycle (and many others). As Gog said (if you believe her), she sometimes does it as well ("destroyed the universe? been there done that. Droll. Uninspired"). She ended the world enough that it became boring for her. No matter who brings the end of the world, right before it truly ends Big Daddy Z resets it all. Apparently, that (and who) is what she has been unable to stop all these iterations. Whether Z (or his purported angelic masters) is more powerful than all the Demiurges can be with infinite time is unclear, but looks like probably.

[BRC]

Also, as much as she hates the endless cycle, it seems like she doesn't actually CARE enough to stop the world from ending.

Why bother, she could throw everything she had at stopping Jaggannoth, and then something would happen and Zoss would reset things anyway. As far as she's concerned, once things have reached the "Concordance of the Demiurges" stage everything is doomed anyway.

Better to throw a party and get ready to do it all again.

[Eldan]

Or doesn't care anymore. This could very much be a case of "I spent 10'000'000 cycles trying to change things, didn't help".

[BRC]

Maybe Zoss considers "Everybody is absorbed into the Party Worm" just as unacceptable as "A Very Angry Man destroys everything", and hits the Reset button when Gog Agog wins as well.

[mystic1110]

If you believe Jag, Z might not have choice.

[Gez]

So that's the Red Room of the Black Lodge from Twin Peaks.

It's too theatrically accurate to just be a meaningless meta reference. Clearly, Allison recognizes it, and Gog Agog knew that Allison would recognize it, and that's why she's building the set.

[Aquillion]

The setup for the interview (especially the distinctive frame with red concentric squares in it) is also a reference to the Eric Andre show.

GOG-AGOG: "Do you think Queen Nadia Om had girl power?"

ALLISON: "Yes, of course."

GOG-AGOG: "Do you think she effectively utilized girl power by illegally devouring all life on the world of Mykos?"

[BRC]

So I'm not clear how constant the cast of characters is.


From what I can tell every cycle features an Heir who, upon being granted the Key by Zoss, arises in power, sees the demiurges fall, and then dies to Jagganoth.


Everybody this time assumed that Zaid was the Heir, and Allison was a temporary holder of his power. But, unless the heir is ALWAYS Zaid (Possibly because Zaid is Zoss himself), I don't see why Gog-Agog here would be assuming that Allison is supposed to be "The Heir's Love Interest" instead of "The Heir". Gog states that it isn't always Allison HERSELF who fills that role, but that The Heir's love interest gets killed off in act three to motivate "The Main Guy".



Also, if Gog's reading of the cycle is correct, that would slot Cio into the role Allison usually plays herself.


Also, I've got crazy theory: Gog Agog is Allison. Or AN Allison anyway.

In the earliest Loops, Allison and Zaid end up in the red city together. Zaid, The Heir, has some adventures. Allison gets dragged alongside him, this time without the power of the Key to make her relevant as anything more than a terrified earth girl in the wake of The Heir Of The Conquering King.

I think in one of those loops, Allison tried to catch up by studying Magic, turned out to be quite good at it, and, for whatever reason, murders Zaid, takes the key from his brow, and does the whole Conquering King thing herself. I don't know what role Zoss is playing here, but Allison figures out that Zoss is going to reset the universe and manages to turn herself into Gog-Agog, thus her worms slip between the cracks and find themselves in the new universe.

Gog-Agog has since forgotten this of course.

[lord_khaine]

Well yeah this certainly explains why Gog-Agog are so facinated by Alison. Its the first novel thing it has seen for ages.

In regards to the cast. It seems clear that the demi-urges are always more or less constant.

Though it also seems clear its not always Zaid who is the Heir.
Gog-Agog makes it clear its not specifically Allison it has seen being killed off repeatedly.
Just different people who have filled the "love interest" role.

[sihnfahl]

Though it also seems clear its not always Zaid who is the Heir.

Yeah. They're not the central character. They're just a random choice by Zoss; only the qualities of personality are important, not the actual individual.

Gog-Agog makes it clear its not specifically Allison it has seen being killed off repeatedly. Just different people who have filled the "love interest" role.

Yep. Since Zoss' choice isn't constant, the choices' love interest differs each time.

And Allison's answer is probably new to Gog as well. The previous 'heirs' probably went with some sort of noble ideal / cause. Take the throne, become a just ruler, etc.

Allison? "Yeah, no, fighting over the throne just makes things worse. BURN IT ALL and everyone who wanted it."

[BRC]

The bit that confuses me is why Gog treats Allison as a love interest who transcended her role, rather than "The Heir".


Although I guess all the Demiurges assumed that Zaid was the intended heir. Maybe there's some method by which Zoss Chooses his heir, and in this case he changed his mind at the last second, but all the prophecies and portents still pointed to Zaid.

Which, considering he ended up the Flying Sword General or whatever, means he probably was classic "Hero" material.

[sihnfahl]

The bit that confuses me is why Gog treats Allison as a love interest who transcended her role, rather than "The Heir".

Probably because she's seen the pattern over and over and over again.

Heck. As far as we know, 'the love interest' getting the key instead of 'the heir' initially could be part of one of the patterns. Only at some point, the Love Interest dies and The Heir gets the key as intended.

So SOMETHING is going on that nobody could forsee that Allison broke out of that cycle.

[Anarchic Fox]

I'm digging this whole scene involving Gog. It's a lot more light-hearted than the comic as a whole, but still gets the occasional jaw-dropping artwork.