More on Liches

[Kesnit]

My BBEG is going to be a Lich - probably a LVL 12 or 13 Wizard (ECL 14 or 15).

1) Depending on what they did before, an NPC may tell them after the battle that the Wizard had been experimenting with extending his life. What would be a reasonable Know (Arcane) roll to realize this means Lich?

1a) If the NPC doesn't tell them about the life-extention desire, what would be a reasonable Know roll?

2) What would be a reasonable Know (Arcane) roll to realize he won't stay dead unless they find and destroy his phylactory?

3) Are there any other skills that could be rolled to give them this idea if they fail the Know (Arc) rolls?

Keep in mind, they would have fought this guy already, so should have realized he has DR. (Big clue there...)

[Grug]

I'd say the phylactery would be knowledge: religion dc 30. Not very many know about the process of lichdom, hence the line in the MM about the process of lichdom being found in ancient forbidden tomes.

As for what a lich is, I'd say knowledge Arcana 25. Liches aren't encountered all that often, not even by adventurers.

[Green Bean]

Doesn't undead fall under Knowledge: Religion? That being said, I'd make it DC20 if they knew of the experimentation. Unless the BBEG has some manner of lich traits the party becomes aware of, they shouldn't really get a roll. Perhaps DC30, with a circumstance bonus for every undead/lich trait they discover.

[Shas aia Toriia]

My BBEG is going to be a Lich - probably a LVL 12 or 13 Wizard (ECL 14 or 15).

1) Depending on what they did before, an NPC may tell them after the battle that the Wizard had been experimenting with extending his life. What would be a reasonable Know (Arcane) roll to realize this means Lich?

1a) If the NPC doesn't tell them about the life-extention desire, what would be a reasonable Know roll?

2) What would be a reasonable Know (Arcane) roll to realize he won't stay dead unless they find and destroy his phylactory?

3) Are there any other skills that could be rolled to give them this idea if they fail the Know (Arc) rolls?

Keep in mind, they would have fought this guy already, so should have realized he has DR. (Big clue there...)

Lots of things have DR. To know that you need to destroy the phylactery should be pretty low, to tell he's a lich right off the bat is a Know. (religion) check. Also, if it says he's been tampering with his life, most players should know right away he's a lich or a vampire.

EDIT: Dang it, double ninja'd!

[tannish2]

ya lich's are pretty simple to identify "hey, that skeleton cast disentigrate at me! *swat* bad skeleton.... oh... DR 15? um.... DISENTIGRATE... damn hes back? and he paralyzed fred without casting a spell? i wonder what it is...."

[Tor the Fallen]

ya lich's are pretty simple to identify "hey, that skeleton cast disentigrate at me! *swat* bad skeleton.... oh... DR 15? um.... DISENTIGRATE... damn hes back? and he paralyzed fred without casting a spell? i wonder what it is...."

Metagame much?

[AKA_Bait]

Metagame much?

Yeah, that would fall under "WTF IS THAT THING? RUN!" for my fighter with 0 ranks in knowledge religion.

Also, it doesn't always narrow it down to Lich or Vampire for ways to extend their life. I've created a bbeg Wraith Sorcerer before. There are lots of things that can extend life, especially when you throw in the DM's right to homebrew (see Redcloaks red-cloak).

[Krelon]

Do it like in OOTS

they defeat the lich, at some point later they find out that it is back, when talking to some sage or scholar he mentions they should find and destroy the phylactery.

you get a recurring villain and 2 adventures out of it


about DR:
damage reduction is 15/bludgeoning and magic, the way I read it you need both bludgeoning and at least a +1 enchantment or a spell cast on it.
fire, acid and sonic work 100%, so at least the mages should do full damage. correct me if I wrong, DR works only vs. weapon damage, spells need resistances.

it really depends, if your group has a lot of spell casters with the appropriate spells and the main damage dealer is using a blunt weapon you should make the DC high and let them find out in game. If your group normally uses piercing and slashing and no fireballs then you should set the DC low or you'll have a party wipe on your hands.