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2019-05-20, 04:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot
Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Ao3 FanFiction.net DeviantArt
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Currently playing: Red Hand of Doom(campaign journal)Campaign still going on, but journal discontinued until further notice.
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2019-05-20, 05:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oregon, USA
Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot
While that could apply in this specific case, both of those would be damage above the minimum Roy could be dealing what with we can see, and thus not be helpful for setting a minimum bound. (The "deadly green energy that is particularly harmful to the undead" was absent.)
Last edited by Jasdoif; 2019-05-20 at 05:14 PM.
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The Index of the Giant's Comments VI―Making Dogma from Zapped Bananas
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2019-05-20, 08:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot
Orcs in general tend to use "Thog speech"
Oh, there could be a huge gap in there - between #550 & #551, maybe? - but #532-533 are practically a continuous scene.
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2019-05-21, 08:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot
We've been over this a number of times. :D
If you assume that Superb Dispelling (DC 59) is the one in the ELH and that Xykon has no item that gives a bonus to his skills or Int, you can estimate his level.
First you need him to have both Epic Spellcasting and Epic Skill Focus which mandates level 23+.
At level 23 you have max 26 ranks in Spellcraft and Knowledge: Arcana and get a +4 Synergy bonus for a sum of +30.
Skill Focus gives +3
Epic Skill Focus gives +10
So we have total modifiers of +43
Superb Dispelling has a DC of 59 and spellcasters typically Take 10 on Epic spells so we're looking at a required +49 to the roll so we need to find +6 from somewhere. That can only come from two places: levels or Int bonus - no other synergy bonuses are available. So Xykon is at least level 29 adjusted for any Int modifier with a minimum of level 23.
Again, assuming no items etc.
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2019-05-21, 08:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot
In fact, even though most orcs have been giving signs of low Intelligence, Thogspeech might simply represent low proficiency with the language, maybe because it's not their native one. 3.5 rules doesn't really cover that.
Remember that, in order to even have Epic Spellcasting, the character must be able to cast 9th level spells, and for that, such character must have at least 19 on his casting ability score, so a minimum of CHA 19 should be assumed (and it is probably way higher).
Edit: Ok, now that I think of it, this doesn't really affects that calculation, because the ability score we need to narrow down isn't CHA, it's INTLast edited by D.One; 2019-05-21 at 08:19 AM.
Each one of us, alone, is but a drop in the sea
Our powers pale compared with the great heroes
Our battles don’t hit theheadlines or shake the earth
But they are few, can’t be everywhere, and we, many
So, when the world or universe needs saving, they come
But when people needs saving, we are the ones to appear
We're underdogs, but we rise up to the challenge to be heroes.
(Wishing Joe, a low-powered superhero)
"I really like the Geek Math'ology we do here"
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2019-05-21, 08:56 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot
Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Ao3 FanFiction.net DeviantArt
We also have a TvTropes page!
Currently playing: Red Hand of Doom(campaign journal)Campaign still going on, but journal discontinued until further notice.
Extended sig here.
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2019-05-21, 08:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2016
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot
Why does he have to make up the entire DC out off of modifiers? If he has a +43 to a roll to reach a DC 49 then all he has to do is roll a 6 or higher, in my understanding. And EDIT: Isn't it 24+ for the learning of each of those feats? The first is at 21st and the rest are every 3rd level after, yes?
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2019-05-21, 09:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot
If Roy rolled maximum damage he would have done the 17 maximum on 2d6+5, plus 13 from BAB, plus 2 from weapon focus, for a total of 32 damage, reduces to 22. DC would be 38, meaning Durkon has to have +18 mods on a 20; something that isn't possible with a max +1 CHA mod and 15 levels of dwarfy cleric, unless he has some "+3 to concentration" item we have never seen before.
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2019-05-21, 09:10 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot
Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Ao3 FanFiction.net DeviantArt
We also have a TvTropes page!
Currently playing: Red Hand of Doom(campaign journal)Campaign still going on, but journal discontinued until further notice.
Extended sig here.
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2019-05-21, 09:43 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2017
Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot
In one of the sticky posts, there's a rule against guessing mental stats through character actions. That probably includes equating thogspeak to low intelligence (another possible explanation is Thog/Gortek/island orcs are applying orcish grammar to the common language).
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2019-05-21, 09:51 AM (ISO 8601)
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2019-05-21, 09:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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2019-05-21, 10:02 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot
Forum Wisdom
Mage avatar by smutmulch & linklele.
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2019-05-21, 10:27 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot
The DC is 59. If you Take 10 you need +49 in modifiers.
And EDIT: Isn't it 24+ for the learning of each of those feats? The first is at 21st and the rest are every 3rd level after, yes?Last edited by Quartz; 2019-05-21 at 10:27 AM.
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2019-05-21, 11:20 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot
Usually a maximum bound with damage is unhelpful, D&D likes its large amounts dice and the wide range of numbers that results....But let me see.
If we're doing a maximum bound, we need a case where the Concentration check was failed. Conveniently, we have one where HPoH loses his 7th-level destruction spell. Overlooking the unlikely possibility that Spellsplinter is more esoteric than "no defensive casting"....
Checking against the first post:
- 2d6+5 greatsword, so 17 base damage
- 29 Strength, for a +9 modifier; one-and-a-half-times for a two-handed weapon, so 13 extra damage
- 14 BAB from fighter levels, and 2:1 ratio on Power Attack for a two-handed weapon, so 28 extra damage
- Weapon specialization, so 2 extra damage
So that's 60 max damage. Being undead, HPoH isn't subject to critical hits...and barring any real reason to suspect starmetal bypasses the damage reduction, I'll say that reduces the max damage down to 50....
The Concentration DC is 10+spellLevel+damage, so in this case 10+7+50; or 67.
Since HPoH failed the check, the upper bound on his Concentration modifier is +65 (any higher and he'd have succeeded even if rolling a 1 against the maximum damage Roy could have been dealing).
If HPoH was level 14 at the time, that makes 17 max ranks; and had the max +1 for Charisma modifier (which undead get on their Concentration checks)...leaves +47 worth of modifiers to account for elsewhere. If he was level 15 instead, that's still leave +46 unaccounted for.
So having the upper bound doesn't really clarify anything o_oFeytouchedBanana eldritch disciple avatar by...me!
The Index of the Giant's Comments VI―Making Dogma from Zapped Bananas
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2019-05-21, 12:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot
Each one of us, alone, is but a drop in the sea
Our powers pale compared with the great heroes
Our battles don’t hit theheadlines or shake the earth
But they are few, can’t be everywhere, and we, many
So, when the world or universe needs saving, they come
But when people needs saving, we are the ones to appear
We're underdogs, but we rise up to the challenge to be heroes.
(Wishing Joe, a low-powered superhero)
"I really like the Geek Math'ology we do here"
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2019-05-23, 09:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot
So... I guess the Exarrgh has the Divine Magician ACF? Horrid Wilting is of the Necromancy school, so it'd work.
Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Ao3 FanFiction.net DeviantArt
We also have a TvTropes page!
Currently playing: Red Hand of Doom(campaign journal)Campaign still going on, but journal discontinued until further notice.
Extended sig here.
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2019-05-23, 10:39 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot
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2019-05-23, 12:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2017
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- Bristol, UK
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2019-05-23, 12:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2015
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- Brazil
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot
Each one of us, alone, is but a drop in the sea
Our powers pale compared with the great heroes
Our battles don’t hit theheadlines or shake the earth
But they are few, can’t be everywhere, and we, many
So, when the world or universe needs saving, they come
But when people needs saving, we are the ones to appear
We're underdogs, but we rise up to the challenge to be heroes.
(Wishing Joe, a low-powered superhero)
"I really like the Geek Math'ology we do here"
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2019-05-23, 02:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2019
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- Somewhere over th rainbow
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2019-05-23, 02:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2015
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- Brazil
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot
Malack also seems to think he is a lizardfolk (panel 8)... Some pages ago (or maybe in the last iteration, I can't remember) we went through all this lizardfolk/serpentfolk/yuan-ti debate. I remember defending the idea that maybe "serpentfolk" is a subrace of lizardfolk.
Each one of us, alone, is but a drop in the sea
Our powers pale compared with the great heroes
Our battles don’t hit theheadlines or shake the earth
But they are few, can’t be everywhere, and we, many
So, when the world or universe needs saving, they come
But when people needs saving, we are the ones to appear
We're underdogs, but we rise up to the challenge to be heroes.
(Wishing Joe, a low-powered superhero)
"I really like the Geek Math'ology we do here"
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2019-05-23, 02:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
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2019-05-23, 02:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2015
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- Brazil
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot
Each one of us, alone, is but a drop in the sea
Our powers pale compared with the great heroes
Our battles don’t hit theheadlines or shake the earth
But they are few, can’t be everywhere, and we, many
So, when the world or universe needs saving, they come
But when people needs saving, we are the ones to appear
We're underdogs, but we rise up to the challenge to be heroes.
(Wishing Joe, a low-powered superhero)
"I really like the Geek Math'ology we do here"
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2019-05-23, 06:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2012
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- Scotland
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot
BTW if Xykon is 29th level he can still fit in 4 counts of Improved Spell Capacity (at 24th, 26th, 27th, and 29th levels), allowing him to Quicken a 9th level spell. Improved Metamagic is another option from level 27 onwards as that requires 30 ranks in Spellcraft, so he could have two counts of Improved Spell Capacity and two counts of Improved Metamagic, thus only requiring an 11th level slot for a Quickened 9th level spell.
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2019-05-24, 09:17 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2016
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- Seoul
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot
Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Ao3 FanFiction.net DeviantArt
We also have a TvTropes page!
Currently playing: Red Hand of Doom(campaign journal)Campaign still going on, but journal discontinued until further notice.
Extended sig here.
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2019-05-24, 12:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2012
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- Scotland
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot
Practical Metamagic requires the Dragonblood subtype.
Metamagic School Focus seems possible, but Xykon hasn't given any indication of specialism or focus.
Versatile Spellcaster might work.
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2019-05-24, 12:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot
Xykon's Cha is listed as 28+. That figure was calculated by virtue of the number of 9th level spells Xykon cast in one combat in SoD. However, I've just learned of the Versatile Spellcaster feat. This allows a spellcaster to use two spell slots of level N to cast one spell of level N+1. So, if Xykon has this feat, he could have used two of his six 8th level spell slots to cast an additional 9th level spell. Thus Cha 28+ is not sustainable unless there's other evidence. I suggest amending the entry to 'Cha 19+ with Versatile Spellcaster or Cha 28+ without Versatile Spellcaster'. Cha 19 is required to cast 9th level spells.
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2019-05-24, 02:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot
The ACF says you get the spell added to your cleric spell list when you're able to cast cleric spells of that level. So it'd certainly work if the Exarch has 15 levels of cleric casting, but in that case I'd wonder why he's using a scroll of horrid wilting (and being concerned about it being his only scroll of it) if he can cast it normally.
I'd be somewhat more moved if there was anything else from Races of the Dragon used in Order of the Stick...or if this wasn't using a feat from a 3.5 book to explain a scene in a 3.0 prequel, but that's fairly minor in my opinion.FeytouchedBanana eldritch disciple avatar by...me!
The Index of the Giant's Comments VI―Making Dogma from Zapped Bananas
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2019-05-24, 03:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2019
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- Somewhere over th rainbow