Fochlucan Lyrist: Best Method Of Entry?

[Fax Celestis]

Fochlucan Lyrist has some strange prerequisites: 7 ranks in Decipher Script, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Knowledge (nature), and Sleight of Hand; 13 ranks in Perform (string instruments); Speak Language (Druidic); ability to cast 1st-level arcane and divine spells; bardic knowledge; evasion; must be NG, TN, CN, or NE.

The best way in I've found so far is Rogue 2/Druid 1/Bard 7, but I'm convinced there's an easier way (or a PrC I could step into as an intermediary).

Conversely, would it be better to go Rogue 2/Bard 2/Druid 6? I'd get wildshape, but it'd be only marginally useful. If I could be lawful, I'd supplant Rogue with Monk, for Wis-to-AC. Actually, there's a thought: Substitute Swordsage for Rogue, and take Assassin's Stance.

What's the best way to get in?

[Crazy_Uncle_Doug]

So far, I've only found the Bard/Rogue/Druid combo. The Evasion requirement throws the whole plan into a heckuva mess, I'm afraid. It's a shame, as that's one of the Prestige classes that have interested me, and qualifying it is almost a pain as was making a 1e Bard ...

[Crow]

It reminds me of all the awesome hoops you needed to jump through to be a bard in 2e (or was it 1e?).

Doesn't matter. That was so great

[Fax Celestis]

So far, I've only found the Bard/Rogue/Druid combo. The Evasion requirement throws the whole plan into a heckuva mess, I'm afraid. It's a shame, as that's one of the Prestige classes that have interested me, and qualifying it is almost a pain as was making a 1e Bard ...

Wait. Isn't there a PrC that gives Evasion at first level?...

THERE IS: Initiate of the Draconic Mysteries, from Draconomicon. Of course, it has it's own suite of hard-to-meet prereqs: Alertness, Imp. Unarmed Strike, Power Attack, Concentration 6, Know (Arcana) 6, Know (Religion) 4, Tumble 4, speak Draconic.

Hm.

Human Druid 1/Bard 3 can meet those prereqs. So: Human Druid 1/Bard 3/Initiate of the Draconic Mysteries 1/$Class_With_Perform_Skill 5/Fochlucan Lyrist X.

[Fax Celestis]

O HAY.

Ranger 9/Bard 2/Fochlucan Lyrist 9.

[Starsinger]

So far, I've only found the Bard/Rogue/Druid combo. The Evasion requirement throws the whole plan into a heckuva mess, I'm afraid. It's a shame, as that's one of the Prestige classes that have interested me, and qualifying it is almost a pain as was making a 1e Bard ...

I coulda swore Fochlucan Lyrist was a throwback to 1e's bard..

[Kurald Galain]

It reminds me of all the awesome hoops you needed to jump through to be a bard in 2e (or was it 1e?).

1E. In 2E bard was simply a base class, and considered a variant to the thief.

Other ways of getting into the FL presclass include
*Bard 1/Druid 4/Green Whisperer 3/Spelldancer 2
*Rogue 2/Bard 6/Mindbender 1/Ur-Priest 1/Sublime Chord 1
*Ranger 9/Bard 2, if you can learn druidic from someone or some feat
*using e.g. a Ring of Evasion, and bribing your DM to allow that

[F.L.]

Are you sure that 13's not a typo? I mean, the sample in the CompAdv had Rog2, Bard4 Druid4.

[Fax Celestis]

Are you sure that 13's not a typo? I mean, the sample in the CompAdv had Rog2, Bard4 Druid4.

...that'd mean max rank for class skill would be 13, yes.

[squishycube]

If you somehow force a druid to learn you druidic, you don't need to take druid levels. This would make qualifying a lot easier. I know that this is very likely not the intent of the designers of the PrC, but a requirement with obvious holes in it begs me to try and break it.
Assumption: There is at least one druid who is selfish.
This seems like a reasonable assumption, druids can be TN, CN and NE, which seem to me like the alignments the druid can be most likely to have selfish traits.
I find a selfish druid. I overpower that druid and make it clear that I will kill him if he does not obey me. I think it is reasonable to assume there is at least one druid who will teach me druidic to save his own life.

Additionally, a bard can become lawful. He keeps al the abilities he already has the only limit is that he cannot progress in bard any further (big whoop).

I am not in the mood to puzzle this together right now, maybe I will later, maybe someone else will have done it by then.

[Starsinger]

If you somehow force a druid to learn you druidic, you don't need to take druid levels. This would make qualifying a lot easier. I know that this is very likely not the intent of the designers of the PrC, but a requirement with obvious holes in it begs me to try and break it.

Blighters are not druids anymore, but did not forget Druidic... Ask a blighter?

[squishycube]

Blighters are not druids anymore, but did not forget Druidic... Ask a blighter?

Good idea, I think it has even more potential than my suggestions!

[Rex Blunder]

If you can spare two feats to get the "Favored" and "Primary Contact" feats from Cityscape, and choose an organization with Perform as an associated skill (like a Patron of the Arts House), you can get a bonus skill rank to your Perform. So you should be able to enter the PrC one level sooner. The only way to get in there by level 9, I'd think.

Rogue 2/Druid 1/Bard 6, or any of the other combinations?

[KIDS]

A good build that involves FRCS classes but still, is something like Druid 2/Bard 4/Spelldancer 4 (grants evasion)/Sublime Chord 2/Fochulan Lyrist 8. Can't remember if Spelldancer is 3/4 BAB of 1/2, but if it's 3/4, it ends with 16 BAB, casting as lvl 7 bard, lvl 9 sorcerer spells and lvl 5 druid spells. The low levels are an incredible pain though, so keep that in mind when commiting yourself to this path.

[Draz74]

O HAY.

Ranger 9/Bard 2/Fochlucan Lyrist 9.

I like this option. You still need to get the Druidic somehow, though.

Oh, and make sure you take Bard before Ranger, so that your max Perform rank is always treated as a class skill.

[SurlySeraph]

A druid also knows Druidic, a secret language known only to druids, which she learns upon becoming a 1st-level druid. Druidic is a free language for a druid; that is, she knows it in addition to her regular allotment of languages and it doesn’t take up a language slot. Druids are forbidden to teach this language to nondruids.
...
Restore Cleric or Druid Spell Powers
A cleric or druid who has lost the ability to cast spells by incurring the anger of his or her deity may regain that ability by seeking Atonement from another cleric of the same deity or another druid. If the transgression was intentional, the casting cleric loses 500 XP for his intercession. If the transgression was unintentional, he does not lose XP.

Quite doable, as long as someone can cast Atonement on the Druid (to be nice to him).

[Aquillion]

I know someone described alternative ways to get Evasion once somewhere.

Ah, wait, here's a list: Ways to Get Evasion. Heh. Ring of Evasion. Well, technically, if you don't mind having all your class features from that point on dependant on wearing the ring... And like they say, few DMs would allow it even if it's technically kosher under the rules. Would suck to have the ring suppressed by a dispel or disjuncted by a disjunction, though.

Other ideas about the class and how to enter it are discussed here, including one (using horrible exploits that nobody would actually allow) that gets 17th level Wizard and Cleric casting (plus 11th-level Bardic Knowledge and music), and one that gets CL-29th Cleric casting through Ur-Priest.

[BardicDuelist]

The soulmed thing with Shape Soulmed and Openlesser Chakra seems like a decent choice.

[Ramza00]

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=377248

probably the best build from a co standpoint

I agree with early entries that go against the RAI (or use lots of spat books) Fochlucan Lyrist can be pretty good. (More or less you have to be in FR but there are other tricks in the link below)

Bard 1/Archivist 1/Wizard 1/Mystic Theurge 7/Fochlucan Lyrist 10

Bardic Music and Knowledge of 11th lvl Bard
Casts Archivist and Wizard at 18th lvl
15 BAB if using partials
Good Skillpoints (104+23*Int Skillpoints and since you have a high int due to casting=a lot of skillpoints)

Here is how you get into Fochlucan Lyrist easily
Bardic Tutealge (Region option for languages, you were raised in a bardic college/taught by a bard, allows you to get language druidic. Champions of Valor, preview of this option located here)
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20051104a
Get evasion by the Shadowalker template in Unapproachable East (+1LA buy it off if you can), or the shape soulmeld option
Take Able Learner at lvl 1 to keep your skills up
Take Improved Sigil (Krau) to get early entry (treat as many spells as you have sigils for as influenced by the heighten spell metamagic at no increase of casting time and it still occupies the old slot, thus 2nd lvl spells with the 1st lvl slot)

More ideas on early entry here.
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=377248

Also forgot to mention
Since making a prepared spell list of both an Archivist and Wizard would be a headache, thus doing 2 spontaneous casters may be better in your mind such as the

Bard 1/Sorcerer 1/Shugenja 1/Mystic Theurge 7/Fochlucan Lyrist 10

Just to compare the previous two builds and total number of spells vs the base class. Note if there is a "negative number" that means the base class has more spells of that level than the hybrid mystic theurge/Fochlucan Lyrist build, a positive numbe and the Fochlucan Lyrist has the more spells of that level