(Spoilers)Mass Effect 2 ruined the Franchise, 3 was continuation of that

[Forum Explorer]

They thought they knew how to turn it on. Hackett calls you in confusion saying something's wrong and it's not firing, so clearly they were expecting it to once attached. "It's gotta be something on your end" he supplies, without any suggestions as to what that might be, and Shepard replies with not having the foggiest notion what to do.



Well, you talk to Sovereign in 1, Harbinger in 2, and prior to the ending you speak to the Rannoch Reaper. So I don't think saying they're not characters is quite accurate.

I agree that creating the first child in the series just to be the mouthpiece was not a good idea. Children in video games are often not done well.

Like I said earlier, acknowledging the problem is not solving the problem. I mean, if we really want to pick at it, why was the Crucible uncrewed? It's not like they couldn't toss a couple of the engineers who worked on it on board.

I did specify ME3 where they were just monsters. You do get to talk to the Rannoch Reaper, which was really interesting and cool. I wanted more of that. But in the end, it was just vague words, without a real personality behind them.

[Kaptin Keen]

This thread makes me want to play the game again. I never ported my characters from one to the next, so that's part of the motivation. Trouble is, I don't think I have the game anywhere, so I'd have to re-buy it. Also, part of the motivation would be to try for a 'bad-ass' Shepherd - but I'm really no good at that, in part because I feel the choices are often just dumb, and in part because I'm often just too damned slow.

Edit: My goodness, I'm wrong! I bought all three from different online shops - so I still have them. I thought ME1 at least was on actual, pre-historic digital versatile disc storage media.

Wow .... what should I play? Like - an engineer, maybe?

[Psyren]

Like I said earlier, acknowledging the problem is not solving the problem. I mean, if we really want to pick at it, why was the Crucible uncrewed? It's not like they couldn't toss a couple of the engineers who worked on it on board.

Do we know they didn't? When you arrive up there, there's a pile of corpses.

A better question might be how did TIM beat you there, and what was he doing before you and Anderson arrived.

I did specify ME3 where they were just monsters. You do get to talk to the Rannoch Reaper, which was really interesting and cool. I wanted more of that. But in the end, it was just vague words, without a real personality behind them.

Which I wouldn't have minded either. However, using such a drastically different voice/persona (i.e. that of a child was pretty key to highlighting that something big had changed though. It fits thematically too - AI are our children in a fairly literal sense, and children are also vulnerable, symbolizing that your choice would impact them too.

This thread makes me want to play the game again. I never ported my characters from one to the next, so that's part of the motivation. Trouble is, I don't think I have the game anywhere, so I'd have to re-buy it. Also, part of the motivation would be to try for a 'bad-ass' Shepherd - but I'm really no good at that, in part because I feel the choices are often just dumb, and in part because I'm often just too damned slow.

Edit: My goodness, I'm wrong! I bought all three from different online shops - so I still have them. I thought ME1 at least was on actual, pre-historic digital versatile disc storage media.

Wow .... what should I play? Like - an engineer, maybe?

Engineer is pretty awful in ME2. The three that are consistently good throughout the trilogy are Soldier, Vanguard and Infiltrator; they didn't really find their groove with the "casters" until 3.

[Kaptin Keen]

Engineer is pretty awful in ME2. The three that are consistently good throughout the trilogy are Soldier, Vanguard and Infiltrator; they didn't really find their groove with the "casters" until 3.

Ironically, if memory serves I played Engineer in ME1, Adept in ME2 - and because they were so bad, I went Soldier in ME3, thinking 'they cannot possibly **** up a straight-up fighting man!'

Install of ME1 is complete. It's cute how it's so small and adorable - under 2 hours to download =D

[Forum Explorer]

Do we know they didn't? When you arrive up there, there's a pile of corpses.

A better question might be how did TIM beat you there, and what was he doing before you and Anderson arrived.



Which I wouldn't have minded either. However, using such a drastically different voice/persona (i.e. that of a child was pretty key to highlighting that something big had changed though. It fits thematically too - AI are our children in a fairly literal sense, and children are also vulnerable, symbolizing that your choice would impact them too.



Engineer is pretty awful in ME2. The three that are consistently good throughout the trilogy are Soldier, Vanguard and Infiltrator; they didn't really find their groove with the "casters" until 3.

Those were in the Citadel part of things. Which also explains how TIM got there first, he 'sneaked' on board.


Which might work better if the child model used wasn't the child Shepherd was having PTSD flashbacks of being left behind to die on Earth for most of the game.

[Anteros]

I think Soldier is fairly weak in the first game. The gunplay is bad there, and soldier suffers the most as a result of that. It's easily my favorite in the second and third games though, and class changing partway through feels wrong.

[warty goblin]

I think Soldier is fairly weak in the first game. The gunplay is bad there, and soldier suffers the most as a result of that. It's easily my favorite in the second and third games though, and class changing partway through feels wrong.

I ran Soldier in ME1, and it was alright. The very first bit is actually painful, since unleveled you don't so much aim guns as indicate what 45 degree cone you'd like to ineffectively spray with bullets, and the amount of scope drift on the sniper rifles is just this side of actually nauseating. Once you dump some reasonable points in one of the weapon trees though it becomes a completely mediocre but acceptable cover shooter.

[Kish]

I did specify ME3 where they were just monsters. You do get to talk to the Rannoch Reaper, which was really interesting and cool. I wanted more of that. But in the end, it was just vague words, without a real personality behind them.

The Reapers in ME3 are apparently not actually AI. They do what they were programmed to do, however complex the path they take toward that goal; they don't have choice the way the geth or EDI do. That makes them UI. Ironically, the most destructive machines of all fall in the "what we use because it would be illegal and stupid to make AI" niche.

They could have done something with that (for one example that springs immediately to mind, they could have given Shepard an "on the surface this looks insane, but it will actually save the galaxy" option to upgrade the Reapers, turning them into true AI; Tim would obviously not be the advocate of this approach). Or they could have stuck with what they said in ME1 and given the Reapers motivation rather than programming. Instead, they went with what amounted to, "Using multimotile reflection sorting, you have one of these three options--four options if you count refusing to accept multimotile reflection sorting and watching the Reapers destroy Earth."

[Morty]

I think Soldier is fairly weak in the first game. The gunplay is bad there, and soldier suffers the most as a result of that. It's easily my favorite in the second and third games though, and class changing partway through feels wrong.

I ran Soldier in ME1, and it was alright. The very first bit is actually painful, since unleveled you don't so much aim guns as indicate what 45 degree cone you'd like to ineffectively spray with bullets, and the amount of scope drift on the sniper rifles is just this side of actually nauseating. Once you dump some reasonable points in one of the weapon trees though it becomes a completely mediocre but acceptable cover shooter.

Mass Effect 1 eventually gets so easy that you just blaze through everything regardless of class. I played a soldier there, but I can't really remember if it's good or bad compared to the other classes. Particularly since my main point of comparison is sentinel - which is very strong in ME2 and ME3, but likewise unimpressive in ME1.

[Psyren]

I ran Soldier in ME1, and it was alright. The very first bit is actually painful, since unleveled you don't so much aim guns as indicate what 45 degree cone you'd like to ineffectively spray with bullets, and the amount of scope drift on the sniper rifles is just this side of actually nauseating. Once you dump some reasonable points in one of the weapon trees though it becomes a completely mediocre but acceptable cover shooter.

For ARs that's true, but pistols start out fairly accurate.

And of course, with shotguns accuracy doesn't matter, get up in there and blow those geth away

The Reapers in ME3 are apparently not actually AI. They do what they were programmed to do, however complex the path they take toward that goal; they don't have choice the way the geth or EDI do. That makes them UI. Ironically, the most destructive machines of all fall in the "what we use because it would be illegal and stupid to make AI" niche.

No, Shackled AI are still AI.

Mass Effect 1 eventually gets so easy that you just blaze through everything regardless of class. I played a soldier there, but I can't really remember if it's good or bad compared to the other classes. Particularly since my main point of comparison is sentinel - which is very strong in ME2 and ME3, but likewise unimpressive in ME1.

Soldier was the best class for ME1 Insanity if memory serves.

[warty goblin]

Mass Effect 1 eventually gets so easy that you just blaze through everything regardless of class. I played a soldier there, but I can't really remember if it's good or bad compared to the other classes. Particularly since my main point of comparison is sentinel - which is very strong in ME2 and ME3, but likewise unimpressive in ME1.

'Cept for the %&/! one hit kill rocket drones. Those can get humped. I seem to remember a lot of time spent crouching behind a wall taking potshots after my elite teammates had decided to tactically block a missile with their faces.

Ah well, not every game can be Republic Commando.

For ARs that's true, but pistols start out fairly accurate.

And of course, with shotguns accuracy doesn't matter, get up in there and blow those geth away

Never liked pistols, they looked goofy. And there was too much stuff I wanted to stay reasonably far away from for shotguns to appeal much, so I was pretty much straight AR the whole way. Totally worth it, once you got a souped up gun you could fire all week without worrying about anything.

[GloatingSwine]

Soldier was the best class for ME1 Insanity if memory serves.

Nah, Soldier was crap in ME1.

Anyone with access to Warp was best, because of how enemy defences scaled. Geth were all pretty rubbish even on Insanity, and Colossi were trivially disabled by Lift.

Krogan, on the other hand, got ludicrous defensive buffs on Insanity and Warp made them go away.

[Morty]

'Cept for the %&/! one hit kill rocket drones. Those can get humped. I seem to remember a lot of time spent crouching behind a wall taking potshots after my elite teammates had decided to tactically block a missile with their faces.

Ah well, not every game can be Republic Commando.

I do distinctly remember steamrolling everything in the endgame but dying to those drones like an Imperial Guardsman caught in melee with Orks.

As far as soldiers go, Mass Effect has always kind of struggled with "combat" powers. In ME1, they were mostly boosts to weapons and armor. Then in subsequent games they were replaced by ammo powers, Concussive Shot and Adrenaline Burst. Andromeda replaced the ammo powers with passives and lots of "grenade" powers like the flak cannon and mines.

[Aotrs Commander]

Geth were all pretty rubbish even on Insanity, and Colossi were trivially disabled by Lift.

Why would you get close enough to cast that on them? (Save for that one.) You can just use the sniper rifle to kill them from behind a bit of terrain from miles and miles away...



That was one thing ME 1 had that the other two didn't - you could really do some good sniping, in 1, whereas the close quarters of the other two weren't nearly as condusive. (Though I don't think you could cloak in 1, could you?)

[Erloas]

Large parts of the games merge together so I'm not entirely sure what I was doing in both. But from what I remember, 1 did have a lot more open spaces and the ability to snipe that that gives. I don't remember sniping from cover really being an option in the third game, but I was playing a Vanguard and the tactic of choice was charge in and shotgun anything left standing.

There were several powers where they just didn't really feel like there was any point in using them, that it was better to just save yourself a step and just shot them.

[GloatingSwine]

Why would you get close enough to cast that on them? (Save for that one.) You can just use the sniper rifle to kill them from behind a bit of terrain from miles and miles away...

Because it was comedy gold pew pewing them to death whilst they floated helplessly in the air.

[Psyren]

Nah, Soldier was crap in ME1.

As I recall (and from the guides I can find) it was actually really good, largely because of Immunity and Overkill.

Large parts of the games merge together so I'm not entirely sure what I was doing in both. But from what I remember, 1 did have a lot more open spaces and the ability to snipe that that gives. I don't remember sniping from cover really being an option in the third game, but I was playing a Vanguard and the tactic of choice was charge in and shotgun anything left standing.

If you were doing gunplay at all it was from cover, unless you were a vanguard or a Krogan Battlemaster anyway. I think Vorcha could be out of cover for a decent period of time too with their regen but still.

[Anteros]

Soldiers were powerful in 1, I just don't think they're very enjoyable to play with the sub-par shooting in the game. Carnage was almost necessary on the higher difficulties if you didn't want to sit and plink things to death forever. Of course, those difficulties only unlocked after you'd played through the game once, and by then you could pick it up as a bonus skill on any class so I guess that's irrelevant.

[Forum Explorer]

The Reapers in ME3 are apparently not actually AI. They do what they were programmed to do, however complex the path they take toward that goal; they don't have choice the way the geth or EDI do. That makes them UI. Ironically, the most destructive machines of all fall in the "what we use because it would be illegal and stupid to make AI" niche.

They could have done something with that (for one example that springs immediately to mind, they could have given Shepard an "on the surface this looks insane, but it will actually save the galaxy" option to upgrade the Reapers, turning them into true AI; Tim would obviously not be the advocate of this approach). Or they could have stuck with what they said in ME1 and given the Reapers motivation rather than programming. Instead, they went with what amounted to, "Using multimotile reflection sorting, you have one of these three options--four options if you count refusing to accept multimotile reflection sorting and watching the Reapers destroy Earth."

Maybe. I would've really liked them to explore the whole 'baby Reaper' thing more. The Reapers are actually the consciousness and culture of everyone used to make them. They don't seem themselves as exterminating the galaxy, but uplifting it and allowing new species to flourish in place of those who existed in the past.




As for the actual game? Vanguard all the way for me. It may not have been the most optimal, but nothing was as satisfying as charging in and laying waste to everyone with a shotgun and biotic powers.

[tonberrian]

I was very nervous about Vanguard going into ME2. I liked the powers of the ME1 version and the charge seemed really dangerous.

Then I learned to suck it up and love the charge.

[Anteros]

Large parts of the games merge together so I'm not entirely sure what I was doing in both. But from what I remember, 1 did have a lot more open spaces and the ability to snipe that that gives. I don't remember sniping from cover really being an option in the third game, but I was playing a Vanguard and the tactic of choice was charge in and shotgun anything left standing.

There were several powers where they just didn't really feel like there was any point in using them, that it was better to just save yourself a step and just shot them.

Sniping is viable in the third game as well. There aren't really open spaces where you'd traditionally snipe, but most enemies are content to sit still and shoot at you from behind cover giving you plenty of time to line up shots instead of rushing you like a human opponent would.

[Inarius]

For ME 1 I'd say the easiest class is the infiltrator with either Assault Rifle or Shotgun as a bonus power. They basically function like a soldier but with access to some better powers like overload and dampening.

Though honestly I think the only really bad class in the first game is Engineer, Sentinels and Adepts at least have a lot of full crowd control abilities to lock enemies down. If you're going for a gun focused class vanguard is probably the worst option due to not having Immunity which is basically an invincibility cheatcode.

[Dienekes]

I think Soldier is fairly weak in the first game. The gunplay is bad there, and soldier suffers the most as a result of that. It's easily my favorite in the second and third games though, and class changing partway through feels wrong.

The balance of Soldiers in ME1 is weird.

In the early stages they are probably the weakest class, because they have no good offensive abilities to start with, so you're left to rely on the guns. Which would be fine if it wasn't for the fact that you have to spend skill points to aim each type of gun, so to actually get the intended feeling of having all the gun options, you're spending a bunch of points just to be able to even use them.

However, once you level up a type of gun to reasonable levels you can then just start focusing on defensive abilities. Once you max out Combat Armor and Fitness you're basically unkillable. To the point that you don't even really need to use cover anymore, even on the hardest difficulty.

[GloatingSwine]

However, once you level up a type of gun to reasonable levels you can then just start focusing on defensive abilities. Once you max out Combat Armor and Fitness you're basically unkillable. To the point that you don't even really need to use cover anymore, even on the hardest difficulty.

Yeah, but you can just use Lift and everyone is unkillable, because enemies can't kill you if they're floating around helpless. Or if they've fallen over because of Push or Jackhammer rounds.

Biotics were total cheese mode in ME1.

[Dienekes]

Yeah, but you can just use Lift and everyone is unkillable, because enemies can't kill you if they're floating around helpless. Or if they've fallen over because of Push or Jackhammer rounds.

Biotics were total cheese mode in ME1.

Oh Biotics were definitely cheese. I would say that Adepts were more likely to succumb to, pretty much, the ambient damage of a battlefield. (Basically the handful of guys that happened to be outside the area of effect of one your spells). Which is why I place them a bit lower. Also there's a small handful of enemies the Biotic's tricks don't work against, while the Soldier's still do. Thresher Maws being the most obvious.

But yeah, 99% of the time, at high level everything you can kill with a Soldier can be killed just as easily with an Adept.

[Anteros]

The balance of Soldiers in ME1 is weird.

In the early stages they are probably the weakest class, because they have no good offensive abilities to start with, so you're left to rely on the guns. Which would be fine if it wasn't for the fact that you have to spend skill points to aim each type of gun, so to actually get the intended feeling of having all the gun options, you're spending a bunch of points just to be able to even use them.

However, once you level up a type of gun to reasonable levels you can then just start focusing on defensive abilities. Once you max out Combat Armor and Fitness you're basically unkillable. To the point that you don't even really need to use cover anymore, even on the hardest difficulty.

I meant that the gameplay is weak. The shooting in the first game is bad, and soldiers suffer the most from that. They're actually one of the stronger classes overall, especially on higher difficulties where biotics and such fall off hard and pure damage output is king.

[Inarius]

Yeah, but you can just use Lift and everyone is unkillable, because enemies can't kill you if they're floating around helpless. Or if they've fallen over because of Push or Jackhammer rounds.

Biotics were total cheese mode in ME1.

I'd still rank Biotic classes behind Infiltrators and Soldiers for the PC simply because there are a few biotic immune enemies in the game, and those also tend to have shield bypassing attacks which usually one shot Sentinels and Adepts and give Vanguards a hard time. The other reason is things typically need to be killed with guns and companions kind of suck at that, but what they are good at is being basically an extra set of powers for you have access to as needed.

[Kaptin Keen]

If I could make mods, none of the mods I'd make would change the ending of ME3. But I'd make one to save after - not before - cut scenes. I'd make another to fix the incredibly ****ty, often outright suicidal cover mechanic. I'd make a third to be able to order party members to take cover, rather than stand around in the open (no, I wouldn't make a mod to improve the AI - that's folly).

I had forgotten what an annoying game this is. And I'm not even halfway in ME1.

I'd make a fourth so you could set the time between autosaves.

[Anteros]

If I could make mods, none of the mods I'd make would change the ending of ME3. But I'd make one to save after - not before - cut scenes. I'd make another to fix the incredibly ****ty, often outright suicidal cover mechanic. I'd make a third to be able to order party members to take cover, rather than stand around in the open (no, I wouldn't make a mod to improve the AI - that's folly).

I had forgotten what an annoying game this is. And I'm not even halfway in ME1.

I'd make a fourth so you could set the time between autosaves.

A lot of those issues already get better as the series progresses. You have to remember that ME1 is basically a dinosaur. Its release date is chronologically closer to something like Pokemon Red, Diablo, or Baldurs Gate than to now.

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised they announce a remake for the entire series at some point in the near future.

[factotum]

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised they announce a remake for the entire series at some point in the near future.

I would be. It isn't really EA's schtick to bring back a series that, in their eyes, has already failed and been cancelled.