El Goonish ShiVe: Look! Squirrel!

[Lord Raziere]

sounds like a lot of summoning nonsense that I'm glad I never stuck around to see, then. at least Hearthstone's nonsense meme stuff is intentional and funny.

[Gez]

It makes sense (on a meta level; the rules themselves don't make any sense) because what's more anime than "ah-ha! look at my special secret technique!" "no, you look at my specialer secreter technique!" "oh ho! but I have an even more specialerer and secreterer technique to counter you!" et caetera at nauseam.

[Qwertystop]

It ties in with the way that, of the big three physical TCGs, Yu-Gi-Oh is the only one without a continual format rotation – any card not explicitly banned is competitively legal, so they have a lot more incentive for power creep, and new fancy mechanics let them do that without falling back on "the same as older cards but just better numbers" as often, by providing more ways of differentiating things to be better in new ways.

Magic and Pokemon both have a format rotation so only the most recent sets are legal; Magic uses that to rein in power creep pretty well, while Pokemon... it's hard to say. There's definitely been *some* power creep, but there's also been a lot of things with increased *spectacle* that has very definite additional downsides – huge HP and attack damage, but worth two or three times as much if you knock it out, and I'm not experienced enough with the game to know whether that balances it out or whether cards without those extra downsides have gotten stronger. The current cards are definitely stronger than cards from when WotC was running the game, but I'm not sure if they're so definitely stronger than cards from, say, three or four generations back.

[Celestia]

Bwuh?! That sounds way crazier than Magic to be honest. Cards in Magic can have completely unique abilities, but their interactions and overall mechanics are pretty well organized. Sure, monsters can enter the battlefield in different ways, but it will always use the common mechanics for the basic types of actions.

Well, Yu-Gi-Oh wasn't actually designed as a card game. It appeared in one chapter of the manga as an allusion to Magic, and that was it. It was only later that the fans loved the card game aspect so much that Shonen Jump forced the manga to be all about it. Then, after a while, they turned it into an actual game. However, it already had a history of being a pure plot device with no rules, so making rules for it was difficult, and that was only made worse given that the game was designed by a mangaka with zero experience making a balanced card game. Thus is why the early days of Yu-Gi-Oh were such a mess and why the game will always be awkward and weird. The whole thing is a disaster barely held together by tape, but that's part of what makes it so fun.

[Ibrinar]

Trying to ask is such a way that she likely to get it if she has powers, without tipping her of if she doesn't makes sense. But honestly I don't think it is necessary to construct a cover story for the question like this, if she doesn't know about magic you probably can be pretty obvious. If they just went "You know how in stories characters often keep it a secret if they gain powers? Would you tell me if you gained cat themed magic?" it would be far from subtle but I don't think someone not already believing in magic would see it as more than a random hypothetical question.

[Windscion]

I've been trying to put into words how I feel about Susan in the comic, and why.

I want to hug her and squeeze her and call her Baby Girl.

I just feel she looks vulnerable, and I think I have figured out why. Susan is usually shown as the answer woman, fierce and active. But here she is pensive, which is not new, around Elliot, which I believe is new. (Of course acting vulnerable around Elliot is only a problem if you don't want him to spring into protector mode.) I suspect the pensiveness is because she knows that at best, this will change things for everyone. And possibly make for new and horrible dynamics, which will be Susan's fault for bringing about the changes. And the movie sofa acts as a callback to them becoming a team, a happy memory imperiled by the changes to come.

re: Dan text.
If this is a mystery, shouldn't the Meddlers be involved?

Also: If asked to suggest magic based on Susan's personality, I am struggling. Elliot is easy, and frankly spot on, except for the becoming a girl part. Closest I can come for Susan is ... Diane's magic.

[Fyraltari]

And the movie sofa acts as a callback to them becoming a team, a happy memory imperiled by the changes to come.

I still ship it, dagnabit.

Also: If asked to suggest magic based on Susan's personality, I am struggling.

I think force-fields would suit her? She doesn't want to be touched, is rather protective and likes to direct/control.

[Maat Mons]

I've got OCD, and I've often though telekinesis would be nice. I spend a lot of time awkwardly trying to manipulate objects while touching them as little as possible.

If Susan Pompoms had forcefield powers, like Susan Storm, would she also have her invisibility powers? What about her keep-winding-up-naked-in-public powers?

It's only very recently that I've realized Tedd's name is spelled with two D's. Naturally, I now want to see an EGS:NP sequence called Ted, Tedd, and Teddy. So what are the three best Tedd forms?

[Windscion]

...Naturally, I now want to see an EGS:NP sequence called Ted, Tedd, and Teddy. So what are the three best Tedd forms?

First, is Teddy here referencing a teddy bear or wearing a teddy (garment, sometime lingerie)? Therefore I submit we have four forms to consider, unless TeddyBear!Tedd is wearing a Teddy, which is two great flavours that, sorry, do not go great together. (Feel free to prove me wrong, of course.)

I refuse to even consider TeddyRoosevelt!Tedd. Especially in a teddy.

Also, we need to know who is sporting these forms. The usual trio is Sarah, Grace and Tedd.

[Rater202]

Susan would get spells that allow her to clean and sanitize things around her.

Possibly up to an including an "eradicate all harmful viruses and bacteria within a set radius around me" spell.

[Maat Mons]

Good call on Teddy wearing a teddy. It also gives me an idea for "Double D" Tedd.

Sleepwear suggests a slumber party. Perhaps they're playing a good old fashioned game of Spin the TF Gun?

[Windscion]

Good call on Teddy wearing a teddy. It also gives me an idea for "Double D" Tedd.

We'll let Sarah do DD Tedd. She'll be delighted

[Gez]

Also, we need to know who is sporting these forms. The usual trio is Sarah, Grace and Tedd.

Tedd, as a seer which is a special type of wizard, can learn spells from other people and modify them. So he could copy Nanase's clone spell, and then use it to summon Ted and Teddy.

[Windscion]

Tedd, as a seer which is a special type of wizard, can learn spells from other people and modify them. So he could copy Nanase's clone spell, and then use it to summon Ted and Teddy.

Okay, technically, yes. But I don't think that's quite in the spirit of things. I mean, what's Grace doing in the meantime? She'll want to play.

[Lord Raziere]

you just got off from stereotyping Elliot a Dog Magic person, why are you surprised at being thought of as an Ice Magic person, Susan? you and everyone else knows your introverted, ice magic is like the first metaphor everyone goes for with people like us.

[Radar]

you just got off from stereotyping Elliot a Dog Magic person, why are you surprised at being thought of as an Ice Magic person, Susan? you and everyone else knows your introverted, ice magic is like the first metaphor everyone goes for with people like us.

My first association was actually her calm, logical approach to pretty much everything. She is a bit like a Vulcan (from Star Trek - not ancient mythology obviously). Fits ice magic better than just being introverted.

[Lord Raziere]

My first association was actually her calm, logical approach to pretty much everything. She is a bit like a Vulcan (from Star Trek - not ancient mythology obviously). Fits ice magic better than just being introverted.

In my experience, one generally means the other applies, so I don't see the distinction. Nor do I care about making one.

[Lissou]

I also feel like ice can preserve things and kill some bacteria so it works with her desire for cleanliness.

[Ibrinar]

From your reply I think you meant to quote Rater's latest post not one about his favorite topic.

[Rater202]

Can I just say that Susan probably perfectly summarizes what a Superhero is?

Like, an issue of Daredevil has Spider-Man talking to a cop, and Spidey basically says that the law shouldn't apply to Superhumans, because the law wasn't written to account for superhumans, instead superhuman should be judged by their actions and the intent behind those actions.

[Vinyadan]

Had the cop stopped Spidey for jaywalking?

[Rater202]

Had the cop stopped Spidey for jaywalking?

Daredevil accidentally killed a minor crook.

Immediately the police went into overdrive trying to arrest Daredevil. Meanwhile, MAtt has gone into a state of semi-retirement because the accident screwed him up royally and hee needs to put his head together and decide where to go from there.

a detective who has gone full Inspector Javert sets up a sting operation: A staged mugging in the middle of Hell's Kitchen with several heavily armed police officers hiding nearby.

An Spider-Man swings across, notices the mugging in progress, and busts it up.

Note: By the MArvel Universe's in-universe laws, Spider-Man did not commit a crime here. Costumed Vigilantism is explicitly legal and there's a supreme court ruling that delcares that it is always protected by any relevant las, such as Good Samaritan acts, that protect people from liability for their actions if done in a good faith attempt to aid during a perceived emergency.

Depite this, the detective get pissed off and orders the SWAT Team to arrest Spider-Man.

So Spider-Man grabs the detective and swings off. Cut to the Detective webbed to a rooftop air conditioner while Spider-Man sits on the endge of the roof.

Spidey, who knows just how bad Matt is broken up over the whole incident and implicitly pissed off that the cops are putting more effort into capturing a good guy who made a mistake(the incident is clear cut an accident) than into capturing most actual criminals basically just spends an hour gently lecturing the cop on how much a jackass he's being.

Detective asks him if he thinks that Superhumans are above the law.

Spidey responds that... Yeah, because they kind of are. Laws are written in regards to normal people and assumes that the legitimate government has a monopoly of force, but the vast majority of laws can't be enforced if the superhuman decides they don't want to obey them.

Instead, Peter argues that intent and action matter more than the strict letter of the law: He breaks it down into superhumans who are using their powers to hurt people should be stopped, treated like criminals, but Superhumans who are using their powers to help people should be left alone and given te benifet of the doubt.

The sun comes up, the Web Fluid dissolves, and Spidey asks if the Detective is going to arrest him for the whole "kidnapped a Cop."

But no, the spidey got through to the detective and the detective lets him go while he thinks things over.

for what it's worth: Matt doesn't agree with Peter. Once his head is on straight he turns himself in and willingly goes to prison for the crime...

Of course, he didn't really get a fair shake. He was given 30 years for a crime that, in the State of New York, has a 15-year maximum sentence.

Unofficially, nobody but Matt thinks that he's going to serve more than a couple of years.

All cards on the table: In-Universe, Wilson Fisk is the current mayor of New York City, so...

Also, it should be noted that Spidey has been harassed by the police over misunderstandings or just a random cop being a jackass probably hundreds of times over the years, so he might not be the most unbiased perspective.

[Fyraltari]

Can I just say that Susan probably perfectly summarizes what a Superhero is?

Like, an issue of Daredevil has Spider-Man talking to a cop, and Spidey basically says that the law shouldn't apply to Superhumans, because the law wasn't written to account for superhumans, instead superhuman should be judged by their actions and the intent behind those actions.

That's a horrible idea.

[Rater202]

That's a horrible idea.

I mean, it's been working great so far. That's basically the status quo n the Marvel universe.

Attempts to write laws to account for superhumans have universally resulted in either blatant human rights violations(The exact wording of the Superhuman Registration act basically made any Superhuman who didn't sign on early into a slave) or has ended up doing more harm than good.

[Fyraltari]

I mean, it's been working great so far. That's basically the status quo n the Marvel universe.

Attempts to write laws to account for superhumans have universally resulted in either blatant human rights violations(The exact wording of the Superhuman Registration act basically made any Superhuman who didn't sign on early into a slave) or has ended up doing more harm than good.

Yeah, but that's because superhero settings at their core don't make sense (plus the weird thing american media has for romanticising vigilantism) and their writers have to contrive reasons why their setting still somewhat resemble the current reality while justifying the existence of magic people in spandex punching people in the face with no oversight.

In practice any attempt to make a certain group of people less answerable to the law is just begging for abuse. Like, there's a reason due process is a thing.

[Rater202]

Yeah, but that's because superhero settings at their core don't make sense (plus the weird thing american media has for romanticising vigilantism) and their writers have to contrive reasons why their setting still somewhat resemble the current reality while justifying the existence of magic people in spandex punching people in the face with no oversight.

In practice any attempt to make a certain group of people less answerable to the law is just begging for abuse. Like, there's a reason due process is a thing.

It's more of a "pick your battles thing."

"You don't actually have the means to bring in the bad ones so really you shouldn't waste time and resources going after the only people who can help you stop the bad ones."

Like, the law is based on the premise that the legitimate government has the best interest of everyone at heart and holds a monopoly of force.

Most superheroes live in a world where both of those things are objectively false.

Like, in the incident that led to this conversation more effort was put into capturing Daredevil over involuntary manslaughter than was ever put into capturing Bullseye for serial murder.

[Fyraltari]

It's more of a "pick your battles thing."

That's wildly different from what you started with: "Spidey basically says the law shouldn't apply to Superhumans."

"You don't actually have the means to bring in the bad ones so really you shouldn't waste time and resources going after the only people who can help you stop the bad ones."

Like, the law is based on the premise that the legitimate government has the best interest of everyone at heart and holds a monopoly of force.

Most superheroes live in a world where both of those things are objectively false.

This sounds like a good argument for superheroes to join the police force(s) and be answerable for their action. Random individuals having a monopoly of force, is not a good thing.

Like, in the incident that led to this conversation more effort was put into capturing Daredevil over involuntary manslaughter than was ever put into capturing Bullseye for serial murder.

But that's only because the person who wrote Spider-man's dialog decided it was so.

[Rater202]

That's wildly different from what you started with: "Spidey basically says the law shouldn't apply to Superhumans."

Not really, you just assign different values to the same basic idea based on your perception of different phrasing.

The gist of it is "don't be a stickler for the rules if someone who is genuinely acting in good faith to help inadvertently breaks a minor law, instead, save your resources for people who use their powers to kill people, rob banks, or otherwise be a legitimate menace to society."

I mean, tyin it back to this comic... There's what Elliot is so pissed about in this comic.

Real talk, Matt is being hunted down for something that a Cop would get off scot-free for. Nobody's watching the watchmen, accountability is a lie.

So like, personally, I'd rather let Spider-Man and Daredevil off the hook for minor lawbreaking and accidents. I would trust them less if they became cops.

[Windscion]

This sounds like a good argument for superheroes to ... be answerable for their action.

Yes, and there is at least one book series (Wearing the Cape) based on this idea. I don't know about comics, as such -- does anyone know any?

[Lissou]

From your reply I think you meant to quote Rater's latest post not one about his favorite topic.

I didn't mean to quote anything, I must have had it saved as a multiquote from days ago. Thanks for pointing it out, I've removed the quote now, not sure how I failed to notice it.