Naruto Sound ITP OOC 1

[Rater202]

About time you got spooked by something after all these years, I was beginning to think you were completely fearless and not know what to do with you running into danger at every turn.

and she doesn't have to know about in advance, we can just arrange her to see it by luck or something, and Kimiko wants to learn all jutsu anyways....so.....its less "will we come across this technique?" and more "HOW and WHEN will we come across this technique in the midst of acquiring numerous others?"

Maybe something Senko has read about... But not in enough detail to perform the modification herself. "An obscure technique, originally created for the sake of espionage and escape. Not a true Jutsu, but specific modifications are done to a body that improve flexibility. By default, the user becomes completely doubled jointed, develops enhanced elasticity in soft tissues, and gains the ability to dislocate and relocate their moving joints at will. With practice, one can use their chakra flow to control their muscles and move while dislocated, which has both espionage and combat applications, and masters of the technique are, somehow, able to expend their appendages several times their normal length and move as if their literally had no bones."
"Okay, that is nice... How do I do it? I can think of dozens of ways that could be useful."

It intresting concept. I think that among the many themes of Naruto, is about people taking spirituality, their talents, nature for their cynical monstrouse needs.
The terrorists usually were trying to break this system.
(And if you can unignore Kaguya bringing devil fruits to the Naruto world, this theme is force fed into you)
Like... I have read about diffrent martial arts, among them Krav Maga, of the isreali special security forces... and it's concept it lack the philosophy of martial arts. It train you to neutralize your opponets, as practical and fast as possible.
(One cool move I have seen, they put a key between their fingers, directing at the eyes) no honor no nothing.
So the ninja world is kind of like that?

But there are religouse groups. Specify for Ottokagure, I made up the Mayuwi clan, who are very orthodox monks, sort of parallel to Hyuga, I can see them trian and talk in these terms.


Btw- as usual, cool art Raziere. I wish I could do stuff like that

Yeah...

So I thought on it.

So the average human has 361 tenketsu. Including, looking at the diagram, major ones at all of the locations where Chakras are believed to be.

Also, the literal translation of chakra is "wheel" or "Cycle."

Spoiler: The seven wheels

Show

In some spiritual beliefs, the seven wheels are clusters of tenketsu in a spiral pattern, a handful of minor points. similarly to the eight gates, it is believed that the points that make up the wheels can be opened but unlike the Gates that gran enhanced physical abilities but can cause damage to the body and should remain closed when unneeded, it is believed that the seven wheels can be opened and cleared of blockages, trained to remain open at all time, for benefits to one's mental and spiritual health.

Whether the seven wheels actually exist has never been proven, the only people able to observe individual Tenketsu are the Hyuga and like many clans they tend to keep the exact details of what they see and do secret, so if they have seen the wheels they are not sharing.

However, whether the wheels exist or not, the physical and mental exercises that are supposed to open then up and do have some benefit in terms of relieving stress and fortifying the sense of self and managing mental health, as forms of meditation, can be used to cultivate the spiritual side of chakra, so whether it exists or not people following those exercises is good for them.

The Wheel of the Root is the foundation, located at the base of the spine. In spiritual beliefs, it is the connection to the Earth and to nature through which power and nourishment are drawn into the body and provides balance and stability to the spirit, the ability to survive, and live without anxiety. allowing oneself to be ruled by fear or becoming too distant from nature. Exercises to remove fear and anxiety, allowing one's bare skin comes into contact with nature(such as by walking shoeless on solid ground or bathing in a natural hot spring) or forest bathing--the act of going out into the wilderness and observing nature with all five senses solely for the sake of appreciation of nature are all supposedly able to open this wheel. Some spiritualists associate the Wheel of the Root with the Element of Earth. some have proposed a connection to senjutsu.

The Wheel Where The Self is Established is a cluster located even with the sacrum. It is associated with the sense of self and the concept of self-worth as well as with pleasure in all forms, creativity, and sexuality. It is also supposedly tied intrinsically to the ability to accept mistakes and forgive one's self and let go of unhealthy guilt. supposedly, when open and unblocked this wheel allows one enjoy life, affirm themself, and live without perversion or repression and properly channel creative energies. Self-love (in a spiritual sense) and the loving maintenance of one's own physical body, such by exercising for the sake of self-improvement of fulfillment, in addition to specific medications, are good for this wheel, which some people associate with the Element of Water.

The Jewel City Wheel is located at the Navel or Solar Plexus. Supposedly associated with the element of Fire, the Jewel City Wheel is supposed to be tied to willpower, one's own personal power, and the acceptance of yourself as you are. It is also tied to both spiritual and physical digestion. Maintainance of digestive health and good nutrition are good for the wheel, as is acceptance of every part of yourself, even the parts that you do not care for, and all aspects of your life, leading to strong self-esteem and force of will and supposedly ease of control

The Unstruck Wheel, associated with the Element of Wind, is located on the heart. This is a dangerous Wheel to mismanaged, as the Heart is the location of the Eighth Gate, the Gate of Death. Some traditions even believe that the major Tenketsu that is the core of the wheel is the gate of death. supposedly, this chakra is tied to the joining of masculine and feminine energy, the spiritual and the physical becoming one, and the ability to love others in both a romantic and platonic sense. Excessive Grief, anger, of feelings of betrayal can block this chakra, but coming to terms loss and accepting that the love that you felt for the loved one, and the love they gave you, does not die when they do clears that up, and experiencing healthy, genuine love(not an obsession, simple infatuation, or base lust) be it in the form of romance or close friendship. Trust is important, and some beleive that this is the key to compassion.

The Purest Wheel is located in the throat. It is tied to the ability to express one's self clearly, and rather than tied to a specific element is supposedly associated with Chakra in its pure form--some spiritualists believe it to be the key to Ninshu. It is blocked by the lies that people tell themselves. Honesty, at least with one's self, is the key to keeping the Purest Wheel open.

The Command Wheel, located on the brow between the eyes, the location of the pineal gland, and also known a the Third Eye is associated with Lightning. It is associated with clarity and perception and, supposedly, is the key to both Dojutsu and chakra sensing. In addition to meditations, te one is
supposed to see past illusions. Not Genjutsu, but widely believed lies based on things that seem true on the surface but are false when observed underneath the underneath. (for example, many things that are believed to be separate are simply the same thing in different forms, or two differant parts of a whole.)

The Thousand Petaled Wheel is, supposedly, the hardest to open and the hardest to keep open. It is associated with all elements and the union of Yin and Yang and must be opened last. It is located at the crown of the head and, supposedly, is the sentence point for both cosmic power and cosmic truths to enter the body and, when open, allows for a heightened state of consciousness and enlightened perspective and a connection to divinity. The other six wheels must be open and unblocked first and the Thousand Peteled Wheel is opened by one accepting that the seeming chaos and misfortune of the world has a purpose, or at least is beyond their means of control, and achieved ability to live without attachments. This last one is hard to understand. It does not mean that one is not allowed to love or have friends or enjoy physical things. Rather, it is the ability to recognize when one's attachments are harmful and must be let go for the good of one'self or for the good of the one you are attached to, to know when itis best to put aside your attachments to focus all of your attention on what is most important(and, likewise, reassume them when such focus is not needed,) and to let go when, in the natural course of things, those attachments are severed. supposedly, opening this wheel and keeping it open paradoxically allows for deeper and more meaningful relationships with individuals and society while leaving one feeling free and allows one to more easily explore beyond the constraints of physical form or so one and to live in a state of bliss. Like the Root, this wheel is sometimes theorized to have a connection to senjutsu

The idea is that there's no direct evidence in-universe that they're real, but the things that the people who believe in them do to open them have tangible benefits for physical and mental health regardless.

I took a bit from real life beliefs, a bit from Avatar, and a adjusted things a little bit to better fit with Naruto--the throat chakra in real life is associated with sound, the third eye with light, and the crown with either pure cosmic power, no element, or all of the elements but I changed them to better fit this world. The names are the Indian names translated into english.

[Rater202]

A suggestion: Since the painting mission didn't really go as planned, maybe we just quietly finish it and move on?

Say Senko has stuff she needs to do at the research center afterward(Talk with Jirou happens here), but she's willing to meet up after that?

Maybe some independent group training?

[Lord Raziere]

Yeah, I'm feeling that the scenes played out. I wouldn't say it wasn't as planned, the plan was to talk and we did so, and now its played out. whether it has a positive or negative effect on the characters is what we determine by playing it out at all.

but yeah, training.

[igordragonian]

Raziere- are you intrested to play Mitsuki in the anbu?
I will have fun to world build all of them?

Induvdial trainings? So what is there to roleplay?

I have an idea for a mission outside of the village if you wish to

[Rater202]

The idea was group training--Kimiko, Senko, Yuyuyu, and Usagi meeting up on their own to train as a group.

[Lord Raziere]

I was just following along with what your thinking, if you got nothing Igor, my entire idea for Mitsuko is to basically develop her as a character in her own right, much like say....Endeavor from MHA, and so her and Kimiko's interactions will basically be awkward as she tries to be better and initially doing it out of fear of Jirou.

and yeah,the idea is that they train as a group, to better their teamwork and come up with cool combo moves, better cooperate, things like that. at the same time lets not spending too much time or detail on it, and I'd prefer a more....montage style approach to things like basic genjutsu defense training, because it'll be boring otherwise.

we could montage Mitsuko spying on Ameoku to if need be.

[Rater202]

If you've got a C-Rank mission idea, we could montage some group training and D-rank missions and then skip over a few weeks, make note of how the PCs have improved, and then go into the mission?

[Lord Raziere]

If you've got a C-Rank mission idea, we could montage some group training and D-rank missions and then skip over a few weeks, make note of how the PCs have improved, and then go into the mission?

I'd like intersperse some character moments in though to show stuff other than missions. I don't really have a C-rank idea that I haven't already said.

Igor you ever gonna get around to your C-rank mission at some point or is that not a thing anymore? you haven't been real definite about it....

[Rater202]

I'd like intersperse some character moments in though to show stuff other than missions. I don't really have a C-rank idea that I haven't already said.

Igor you ever gonna get around to your C-rank mission at some point or is that not a thing anymore? you haven't been real definite about it....

He did just say he had an idea for a mission outside of the village.

[Rater202]

So, mention of genjutsu training then snapshots of other examples of group training?

Or maybe a time skip to the team hanging out the afternoon before the day their first C-rank with training in recap?

[Lord Raziere]

So, mention of genjutsu training then snapshots of other examples of group training?

Or maybe a time skip to the team hanging out the afternoon before the day their first C-rank with training in recap?

The first was what was sort of intended and preferred, but the second could also work if we can remember to do it, treating training as one big prep time session that can flashback and use the planning rules we have to say we prepared for this or that afterwards.

also I have a great complication idea for the gold and silver bros corpses that I think will be fun: the tailed beast chakras in them are still inside....and thus also weak copies of Kurama who when unfrozen will control the bodies to try and attack everyone around them. and its simply something no one predicted could occur.

[Rater202]

It'd be more probable that Kurama himself was controlling them remotely or that they'd just be running on his instincts, but yeah. Could be fun.

The main question is... do they rampage before or after Senko modifies herself with their cells? Becuase that drastically changes how she reacts.

[Lord Raziere]

It'd be more probable that Kurama himself was controlling them remotely or that they'd just be running on his instincts, but yeah. Could be fun.

The main question is... do they rampage before or after Senko modifies herself with their cells? Becuase that drastically changes how she reacts.

1. Not really? their telepathy can't be that far, or the tailed beasts would use it all the time to communicate and coordinate to whatever degree they can, while instincts would just be too easy.

2. I was thinking she'd have to fight them to get them and then have to deal with a tailed beast being negative in her head like every other jinchuuriki

[Rater202]

1. Not really? their telepathy can't be that far, or the tailed beasts would use it all the time to communicate and coordinate to whatever degree they can, while instincts would just be too easy.

2. I was thinking she'd have to fight them to get them and then have to deal with a tailed beast being negative in her head like every other jinchuuriki

1: Yeah, but that's communication between seperate beasts. Naruto was able to sense Kinkaku using Kurama's chakra from hundreds of miles away.

2: I mean, if it is before she grafts their cells to herself then in order to get Kurama's chakra she would have to have someone extract the Kurama clones from the brothers and seal them in her which... Even if she's a volunteer, she's not an Uzumaki. I assumed that she'd need to augment herself with their cells in order to have Tailed Beast chakra without being a normal Jinchuriki at all. If she has their cells then defeating them and draining their chakra directly is an option

Also, if they're mini-clones of Kurama then logically they should be both stronger and have more attendant risks than just having a small amount of their chakra. Especially if the mini clones fuse once they're both inside her, the way Yang Kurama and Yin Kurama fused after Yang Kurama was sealed back into Naruto. My original plan was something comparable to when Naruto used the one tail Cloak at the Valley of the End(or a one-tailed version 2 if she got both bodies) that she wouldn't use outside of emergencies or training in order to keep in secret(no direct drawbacks, other than having to keep it secret less Cloud get upset of the Leaf to realize Sound has Nine-Tails chakra.) With Senko having to deal with Mini Kuramas I would expect that she'd have access to much stronger Jinchuriki forms but also have a lot more to deal with when she does tap into it.

[Lord Raziere]

With Senko having to deal with Mini Kuramas I would expect that she'd have access to much stronger Jinchuriki forms but also have a lot more to deal with when she does tap into it.

Nope.

you still only get the one tail cloak, getting the privilege of a giant furball insult you within your head is just apart of the jinchuuriki package.

[Rater202]

Nope.

you still only get the one tail cloak, getting the privilege of a giant furball insult you within your head is just apart of the jinchuuriki package.

It hardly seems fair for you to unilaterally decide what happens to my character using a process that, in canon, had no such consequences.

[igordragonian]

There is a lot to read. I hope to reply as soon as possible

[Lord Raziere]

It hardly seems fair for you to unilaterally decide what happens to my character using a process that, in canon, had no such consequences.

It hardly seems fair that a change that has no actual impact on the effectiveness of the ability would be grounds for such criticism.

nor does it seem fair for you to unilaterally decide what happens to something are just because you can quote the canon better, then decide that your character faces no difficulties just because you made a plan.

and I'm not changing what happens to your character. I'm stating that by the consistent rules that apply to all the world in this roleplay, jinchuuriki means tailed beast chakra, which means a small part of the tailed beast is inside you, which clearly takes form of a fox even if split off from the main part, and thus to be consistent with the rules of all the world which you are apart of, you get the downsides as well as the benefits. we don't know enough about the gold and silver bros to know whether or not their tailed beast chakra was mini kuramas or not, we didn't see their stories, we didn't follow their tale, we observed them from an outside perspective for a short time which is not enough time to draw any conclusions. you want to be in this world, you don't get to decide which rules apply to you and which ones don't, just like how no one gets to decide whether gravity applies or not when they are born. because why wouldn't a smaller amount of chakra that still takes a foxes form have their personality? you can't say they didn't have such consequences either. Its an unanswered question, that doesn't mean its a "No". Your character either lives in the same world as everyone else or they don't.

meaning you want all pseudo-jinchuurikis to not have the voice in their head. thats what your asking. I don't care either way if it is or not. I just thought it'd be fun for becoming pseudo-jinchuuriki to actually have unintended side effects and for tailed beast power to be more than just some power source, y'know. like they are in canon because they're living beings who got imprisoned against their will and kind of angry about that. but you don't seem to want that, so okay I'll stop and the foxes can just be controlled by the big one or something, I'd thought it be a fun idea to share but apparently thats just not acceptable for reasons.

Even though it hasn't happened yet, and therefore I'm not deciding it all, I'm working it out in advance so that we're clear what happens whenever it happens to anyone including your character, and therefore you can decide whether or not to go through with it and experience the consequences at all, which is being very kind since most GMing doesn't give you such advanced warning, they just offer choices without you knowing what will happen and you just hope that you make the right one and being uncertain about whether or not your character did and dealing with the fallout is half the fun. letting your character be changed by unintended experiences and interactions you didn't expect is not a bad thing Rater, in fact one could say that is the fun of roleplaying rather than just telling the story yourself.

But whatever. I won't do it, if your going to be like that.

[Rater202]

Okay, I am going to explain what my problem is.

To start, lets look at the definition of the word "Psuedo."

1. false, pretending, or unauthentic: pseudo-intellectual.
2. having a close resemblance to: pseudopodium.

Basically, a Psuedo-Jinchuriki would be something that resembles a Jinchuruki but isn't one. They have a Tailed Beast's chakra, but are no where near as powerful as a real Junchiriki becuase they don't actually have a Tailed Beast. Consequently, they don't have as many of the drawbacks of being a Jinchuruki--they aren't at risk of turning into a giant mosnter or dying when the monster inside escapes.

We can infer that th Gold and Silver Brothers did not have mini-kuramas in canon, becuase when Naruto, Gaara, Minato, and B extracted the Sealed Tailed Beasts, as well as the chakra of Kurama and Gyuki that was absorbed, from Obito, there were not any mini Kuramas ripped out. Or but he fact that there are not two Mini Kurama's running around causing crap, if they reformed after their deaths.

Furthermore, Gyuki's broken off horn and the tentacles that B sheds to fake his death on three separate occasions are made up of Gyuki's chakra, since... Gyuki is made of chakra, but they don't become Mini-Gyukis. And Gyuki is not, in any way, lessoned from this loss. He just regenerates the tentacles and while the horn didn't grow back, he doesn't act like he's weaker.

The only example of Tailed Beasts budding like that, is when Minato summoned the Shinigami to rip Kurama's very soul in half and permanently stripped Kurama of half of his power in the process, the other half of his soul and power became Yin Kurama. (And the implication is very much that Kurama was not able to recover from this until he refused with his Yin half.)

With me so far?

Furthermore, in Filler, we have Blue B(turned into a Pseudo Jinchuriki with chakra cultivated from Gyuki's broken off horn) who does not seem to have any issues controlling that chakra, and Sora, who was driven berserk by his inability to handle Kurama's chakra but didn't have a Mini Kurama of his own

So, if, for whatever reason, in this AU, if the Gold and Silver Brothers Kurama chakra transformed into Mini Kuramas, based on the example of Yin Kurama, they would have somehow had to have ripped out pieces of Kurama's soul.

Enough to permanently diminish Kurama. which, okay, maybe nobody noticed. The implication is very much that their Jinchuriki forms were weaker than the equivalent form of a real Jinchuriki, but...

They wouldn't be Psuedo-Jinchuriki in that AU. They would be full-fledged Jinchuriki complete with their own Tailed Beasts, albeit tailed ebasts weaker than the original 9.

My Logic for Senko only getting a one-tailed form was that there would only be enough chakra for a one-tailed form left in the corpse. I figured that a one-tailed form wouldn't be too overpowered and the fact that Senko would 1: Have to train to control it and 2: Would have to keep it a secret lest the leafvillage find out, which would limit her ability to use it period. Also, I think I mentioned that actually using it would probably mess with her emotional state and make her more likely to transform and Rampage.

Also, it simply being there is a complication of the Chunin exam, with Kurama presumably able to sense that some other life-form is producing his Chakra and has a decent amount in their system.

But if the Gold and Silver Brothers were proper Jinshuriki, with Mini-Kuramas merged to their bodies and waiting for an opportunity to escape... Then they would have Six Tails Each. The Tailed beasts are self-sustaining. They don't need to eat or slip and their chakra regenerates on its own when expended. So, the Mini-Kuramas

If Senko acquires Kurama's chakra by taking the Mini Kuramas into herself, she would not be a Psuedo-Jinchuriki, she'd just be a Jinchuriki. With all of the benefits and drawbacks that entail. Not only is she more likely to rampage, but she's likely to lose control of her body entirely and trying to control her new power and there's also the possibility that the Mini-Kuramas escape, killing her and going on a rampage.

If you want to deciate from canon and introduce a plot complication that would negatively affect my character, that's fine. But it needs to be fair. If we ae treating the Gold and Silver Brothers like Real Jinshuriki instead of knock-offs with stolen power, and thus starting Senko as a real Jinchuriki when she takes that power for herself, we do it in every regard, not just arbitrarily picking and choosing to add additional downsides above and beyond what we have already discussed, which I do not think is fair.

Either we do Mini Kuramas, and adding them together creates something comparable to Naruto's Version 2 six tailed form(which is the bare minimum I can see realistically happening, if both brothers had equal power) and Senko deals with the natural consequences of being the host of a Tailed EBast with that kind of power, for better or worse

OR

We don't do Mini Kuramas. Instead, the actual Kurama's range for sensing and manipulating his own chakra is long enough that, once the Brothers bodies are in the Sound Village, he can figure out what's going on,observe their surroundings through them, and uses the remains of his chakra within them to animate them like puppets and go on a rampage in hopes of whatever it is he wants once he spots the opportunity. (After Senko extracts some of their cells.)

They rampage, Senko grafts the cells into herself and drains the chakra. At this point, her body starts converting it into her own power. Kurama can no longer control it, at least not at such a long range range... But he can get into her mind space and talk to her. (Which I honestly figured we'd do at some point regardless.) Maybe even contact between Senko and the Nine-Tails Jinchuruki before the Exam, which could have all kinds of effects.

Most of Kurama's power has dissipated. Each Puppet Corpse has enough for a one-tailed Version One Cloak, which becomes a Version 2 one-tailed Cloak after Senko consecntrates the chakra in herself.

It has more or less the same roleplay effect you're going for but doesn't require me to accept additional consequences beyond what we'd already talked about and which deviate from canon without gaining any additional benifet.

Does that seem fair?

[Lord Raziere]

Ok so it sounds like to me that "my character gains power and wins" is how you define "fairness" or am I wrong? please define fairness outside of that, if that is not the case. because your character gaining power is all that you seem to care about.

going by your rules of fairness, what would define as acceptable cost for Kimiko to gain something then? I will not accept zero.

[Rater202]

That's not the issue.

the issue is that I presented something I felt was fair: By studying and eventually absorbing the chakra from the bodies of the brothers, Senko could get either 1: A 1-tailed version 1 cloak from one brother of a version 2 cloak from both. In exchange, however, Senko would not be able to use this power often becuase 1: Cloud or Leaf finding out she has it could cause major problems for the village, 2: Channeling a large amount of malevolent, violent chakra would throw her emotions out of balance, and 3: Based on Naruto's example, Kurama's chakra draws in natural energy more easily than normal chakra does. Using the Fox Cloak would give Senko power, but for both sociopolitical reasons and becuase it would drastically increase the chances of her going berserk(and the damage she could cause while berserking), she would only be able to use it in emergencies until much later after getting it.

I had figured that you had agreed that this was fair, based on your responses.

Then proposed a scenario that would make Senko work for it, which is fair, and isn't based in canon that would make being a Psuedo-Jinchuriki more like being a real one, and I was willing to go with this even though it wasn't canon. But then when I pointed out that it would, logically, result in more power than I was planning on, you insisted that it would result solely in an additional, non-canonical, negative in addition to what we'd previously discussed.

So, to provide a comparison, it would be like if Kimiko's Curse Mark was an experimental one that drew on Senko's bloodline more strongly than otherwise, allowing Kimiko to learn Senko's Clan's sage mode with enough training. If I agreed to let you do that, but then insisted that Kimiko would have to go through the entirety of struggling with periodically going homicidal insane before she could master Sage Mode, even though there's no basis in canon of Curse Marks working like that.

You wouldn't like me insisting on that, would you?

So, you want to Treat the Gold and Silver Brothers, and thus Senko, like a Real Jinchuriki instead of Psuedo-Jinchuriki? Okay, that's fine.

But we have to treat them the same in terms of all aspects of being a Jinchuriki. Not just the negative(sharing your body with a pissed off monster that hates you becuase you represent the fact that it was treated like **** by humans for the last thousand years and your death would mean it's freedom, also it can and will do everything in its power to make using its power hard for you or to escape from your body, which will kill you) but also the fact that Tailed Beasts are self-sustaining--The Mini-Kuramas would be just as powerful now as they would have been when the Brothers were alive, which in turn means that Senko's Jinchurki forms would be much, much stronger once she sealed them in herself that what we initially agreed.

There are roleplaying opportunities for what you suggest, ones I'm willing to explore, but changing how Psuedo Jinchuriki work without the logical follow up to that, in a way that serves only to add an additional negative to what we'd already discussed, that's what seems unfair.

[Lord Raziere]

Nevermind, we'll just go with your way then, because apparently you have take everything seriously and make it a federal freaking issue. jeez.

[Rater202]

Nevermind, we'll just go with your way then, because apparently you have take everything seriously and make it a federal freaking issue. jeez.

It's not that...

I pointed out the logical ramifications of it, and that I would expect additional benefit for additional drawbacks.

You insisting that it would only be an additional negative beyond what we discussed came across like Darth Vader altering the deal in Cloud City.

[Lord Raziere]

It's not that...

I pointed out the logical ramifications of it, and that I would expect additional benefit for additional drawbacks.

You insisting that it would only be an additional negative beyond what we discussed came across like Darth Vader altering the deal in Cloud City.

well I didn't think of the idea when your first proposed it. and it was laden with your usual wall of text that takes so much time to read, maybe even multiple times just to understand and then I went and filled my brain with other things, because I do other stuff.

and I don't like it when your characters basically propose the most dangerous plans possible then act as if its no big deal when anything involving tailed beasts should be S-rank in scope by my own guidelines. it makes me feel as if your not taking any of this seriously or not feeling anything about this, or want anything but power. and I don't get it.

[Rater202]

It's not about power.

It's about being able to complete Senko's arc without being too overpowered.

Senko's end game, being that she wishes to achieve the ultimate Sage Mode, is Six Paths Sage Mode. that requires the chakra of the Tailed Beasts.\

A Pseudo-Jinchuriki's whole thing is that they have the abilities of a Jinchuriki without having the drawbacks(outside of Sora)... But are also much, much weaker than the real thing.

More specifically, using both the Brothers and Sora as examples, while a real Jinchuriki has the tailed BEast sealed within them, a Psuedo-Jinchurki has the beast's chakra infused into their cells triggering some kind of mutation.

The idea is that, if Senko did it, not only would it count as a Mod but it would provide justification for her later figuring Six Paths Sage Mode out, among other things that could branch out without having to make Senko a full Jinchuriki, which I was told would be unbalanced.

the fact that the Brothers aren't real Jinchuriki is what I was using to justify Senko not becoming that much more powerful when she took their power for themselves. Since there's no tailed beast in them, there's nothing stopping their accumulated Chakra from dispersing once they're no longer alive to produce it and in the two decades it's been since their deaths, most of the power is gone.

You suggested changing it, but... the change you suggested logically would result in a lot of other changes, more positives, more negatives.

I tried to point this out, and you insisted on only attaching the negatives.

From my perspective, making up something with no basis in canon solely to put additional, harsh negative consequences on a process that doesn't really have such consequences in canon doesn't seem particularly fair.

I mean, we weren't exactly going to make getting the bodies easy. I even suggested that the Raikage would insist on meeting the researcher who would be studying the bodies, requiring Team 3 to go to Cloud and Senko to make a very, very good argument for why a ten-year-old should be allowed to handle this kind of thing... And the introduction of the Cloud Genin Team and the start of your Blood O storyline, since you mentioned maybe tying these two things together.

I'm fine with there being unintended consequences to bringing the bodies to Sound, but making being a Psuedo-Jinchurki more like being the real thing but only in the bad ways seems excessive and a bit unfair, particularly since I figured "ou have the power but can't actually use it without all kinds of risks" to balance out a power that lost to Bastardized Getto Sage Mode. In a clash of power version power, Curse Mark stage 2 Sasuke overpowered and almost killed One Tail Naruto despite Sasuke using an inferior technique, Sasuke not aiming to kill, and Naruto's base power being far beyond Sasuke's base power. One Tail by itself, even assuming that Version 2 is stronger instead of just having more defensive ability, doesn't seem worth having all of the drawbacks of a full Jinchuriki.)

And.. yeah, in canon there don't really seem to be any downsides to being a Psuedo-Jinchuriki. It kills most people who try it(which Senko is prepared for), but the ones who survive don't seem to have any problems.

[Lord Raziere]

Okay, I'm sorry I had a new idea too late for you to accept it. do we need to make a concise list of agreements for me to reference just so I can keep up with all the things you think I can keep track of? because I wasn't clear you took saying that "its logical and reasonable" as a binding agreement, when I say that, I just mean it sounded reasonable, I didn't think that was end of the conversation and that a deal had been closed. I honestly don't like my words I type casually to a friend being used as contractual obligation

you haven't told me how power this new Senko pseudo-jinchuuriki form is going to be. is B-Rank? A-Rank? what? your being vague.

[Rater202]

IT's not that it was too late.

Its that the way you presented it made it come across like you were making something up to Nerf the Psuedo-Jinchuriki form after we'd already had an agreement.

2. I was thinking she'd have to fight them to get them and then have to deal with a tailed beast being negative in her head like every other jinchuuriki

Nope.

you still only get the one tail cloak, getting the privilege of a giant furball insult you within your head is just apart of the jinchuuriki package.

It comes across like you're trying to passive-aggressively get me to drop the idea, attaching additional negative qualifiers.

Forgive me for being a bit jumpy, but the least Bleach Game died becuase another player decided he didn't like the direction I was going in and stonewalled and railroaded me in every way even when I scrapped pretty much everything I had planned as long as he'd let me get the ending I wanted. I'm a bit sensitive about this kind of thing after that.

the problem isn't that the idea is too late. The problem is that the idea is a massive deviation from how that kind of thing works in canon that would have major consequences and when I tried to point that out you insisted on only apply the negative consequences to Senko.

As for Rank? That's really hard to say. Ranks aren't very consistent in canon when it comes to powers and techniques.. The Rasengan is explicitly the ultimate application of Shape Manipulation, being able to create thousands of balls of concentrated, solid chakra that are almost microscopic, hold them into a perfect spear, and have them spiral around each other and the entire volume and diameter of the spare without touching while being packed tightly enough that they function as a solid mass and basically drill through everything. All in a few seconds, without hand seals

You'd think something that requires utter masteryof back chakra control and advanced shape manipulation to use as intended would be an S-Rank technique, but it's only A-Rank. (I know, only.)

What Rank would you put the Curse Seal of Heaven at? Becuase based on the Valley of the End, a Version 1 One Tail Cloak is weaker than the Curse Seal of Heaven by a lot. Naruto was more powerful than Sasuke, but a lot, in their respective base forms, and was using the Rasengan, compared to Sasuke using the canonically inferior chidori, and when they clashed Sasuke's Chidori overpowered the Rasengan and inflicted an almost fatal wound on Naruto even though Sasuke wasn't even trying to kill Naruto anymore.

So, Naruto's V-1 Cloak is obviously weaker than Sasuke's Curse Mark,at least at the One Tail Stage. You could maybe argue that a one-tailed V-2 would be equal, but judging from Kinkaku's six tailed form having no bones and five his his tails being undersized, almost vertical, we can infer that a Psuedo-Jinchurki's transformed state is weaker than a True Jinchuriki's equivalent form.

So... at absolute most it would be equivalent to a (normal) curse mark, assuming we stick to the original plan instead of making her a full-fledged Jinchurki

So... What would you classify the Curse Marks as? Orochimaru applying them is an A-Rank technique but there's not any letter ranking for using them as a power up.

[Lord Raziere]

Okay. I see where your coming from. I can see how those posts would come off as that, and maybe I'm not sure how to handle ideas I'm uncomfortable with while not displeasing my friends. I will work on that.

personally I keep trying to be consistent, but I'm more narrative than simulationist in mindset, so I don't know what to do. and I feel as I can't ever do well enough to your tastes. and you seem to look at things that break consistency with a lot of emotion and such, when I just....don't care as much I guess?

as for ranks, well....it has be consistent for the roleplay. we can't just leave it up in the air. as for the difference in ranks between A and S, I'd say S-rank techniques are for miraculous godlike stuff so powerful that most ninjas simply can't do- like A rank is for all the stuff that most ninjas that if they work hard enough they can someday do as a jounin, but S-rank is like things that are unique and special,things that most ninja would know as possible only in legends and theoretical textbooks

like the Cursed Seal of Heaven? powerful enough to beat one tails naruto while being used by a genin, but the one tails cloak/kyuubi chakra was able to do stuff like beat Neji or break Haku's mirror. and Haku's like jounin level correct?

like I'd say the first Valley of the End fight was solidly A-rank, right? there are more powerful fights around sure, but neither was it something I'd call B or C-rank. sure the techniques used were a little strange, but you could probably see two Jounin doing the first Valley of the End fight, I'd personally think. but this mostly because Naruto and Sasuke's capabilities are beyond what should be possible for their level, they just do crazy feats beyond anything a genin has any right to do and Sakura's considered the load by the fandom for being a realistic genin thrown in without a clue of how'd she make up the difference? so I'd say the One Tails Cloak and Cursed Seal of heaven are both A-rank, to me, but thats my opinion. like I'd give One-Tails Cloak an A-rank anyways for any jinchuuriki simply because anything beyond that are pretty much the tailed beast taking over in some manner and those are S-Rank.

[Rater202]

Well, the basic Rasenshuriken, the "guaranteed to kill the hell out of one person but also seriously screws up your arm" version was classified as S-Rank right off the bat, so I don't think S-Rank techniques are godlike by default.

So... Assuming she gets the chakra of both brothers, and assuming the original plan, Senko's version 1 is equivalent to a Stage 1 Curse Mark and version 2 to a Stage 2 Curse Mark? Probably officially classified as an A-rank technique to hide the fact that Sound has a Jinchuriki?

And having Kurama's chakra in such a large amount means that Kurama can communicate this her, when she's in range, and will presumably cause issues and/or roleplaying opportunities in the future.

I like the idea Zombie Gold and Silver Brothers, I just don't like the idea of the Mini-Kuramas if we don't go the whole nine yards with it.

So... We cool?

[Lord Raziere]

We cool.....I just have my own biases.

so yeah, zombie gold/silver bros, but connection to kurama through tailed mind thing. got it.

any other agreements that I should remember? just in case? this has occurred too often for me to not try and do something about this so I remember better.

hm, maybe the problem is that I've read a lot of naruto fanfics? there any naruto fan fic cliches to avoid? and I'm not talking the obvious usual general fan fic cliches, I'm talking specific details that they get wrong about the world and such.

but yeah okay, I'll figure out how Blood O works into this.....should probably work on her teacher? and mother then. probably both lightning release affinity though, so time to figure that out.