Sabres?

[...Eh?]

I have a character concept in my mind of a character who dual-weilds sabres. Since this would mostly be a fluff thing, what would be a good weapon to use as stats for a sabre?

[Rex Blunder]

I believe the scimitar is the standin for sabres and cutlasses, correct?

[Lord Tataraus]

I have a character concept in my mind of a character who dual-weilds sabres. Since this would mostly be a fluff thing, what would be a good weapon to use as stats for a sabre?

A rapier that does slashing damage.

Edit: the scimitar is a rapier that does slashing, except its not finessable, the sabre would be finessable.

[UserClone]

A rapier that does slashing damage.

Erm, you mean like a scimitar?

[Rex Blunder]

But I believe a sabre is heavier and slower, and I'm not sure it should be finesseable.

Perhaps this conversation is getting perilously close to "Questions about Real-Life Weapons"...

[Spiryt]

But I believe a sabre is heavier and slower, and I'm not sure it should be finesseable.

It all depends on what you mean by "saber".

I think it's all up to you. Both are quite good : "slashing rapier" and normal scimitar too.

[DraPrime]

I have to agree. Either slashing rapier or scimitar will work best. Maybe even a falchion, but probably not.

[BardicDuelist]

What kind of sabre? A calvary sabre would be similar to a scimitar or longsword. A dueling sabre would be finessable (though their use was rare).

Personally, I allow scimitar's to be finessable (since I don't see this as gamebreaking at all).

[UserClone]

I just meant that, IIRC, a Scimitar is identical to a rapier except that it does slashing damage and is not "Finesse-able".

[Spiryt]

This thread could use a pic.

You mean something like that?

Spoiler

Show

[Guy_Whozevl]

Faerun has a sabre as a weapon. It's basically a longsword that gets bonuses to attack/damage (can't remember which one) when charging. It's one-handed and non-fineseable.

[Lord Tataraus]

Faerun has a sabre as a weapon. It's basically a longsword that gets bonuses to attack/damage (can't remember which one) when charging. It's one-handed and non-fineseable.

?Bonuses when charging? How does that work? But as others have said, it really depends on what type of sabre you're thinking about. I think of a quick, slashing sword like the dueling sabre.

[Guy_Whozevl]

?Bonuses when charging? How does that work? But as others have said, it really depends on what type of sabre you're thinking about. I think of a quick, slashing sword like the dueling sabre.

There are the dueling sabres, as you mentioned, but the historical sabre is used by cavalry. Thus the bonus on charges (I recall that it was a mounted charge; sorry if putting just "charge" confused you). Here's a wikipedia link to clarify things:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabre

[Lemur]

The Forgotten Realms saber is essentially a slashing and piercing longsword that gives you a +1 bonus to attack when mounted. If you just want an approximation, a normal longsword or a scimitar are your best bets.

A saber in D&D should probably be thought of mostly as a cavalry weapon, since that was indeed it's orginal purpose, instead of a light dueling weapon. Actually, if you look at modern saber fencers, a lot of the time they'll just charge towards each other, more or less, and have at each other.

@VV - FRCS book has a statted-out saber, p. 97

[Lord Tataraus]

There are the dueling sabres, as you mentioned, but the historical sabre is used by cavalry. Thus the bonus on charges (I recall that it was a mounted charge; sorry if putting just "charge" confused you). Here's a wikipedia link to clarify things:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabre

Ah, that does make sense. The plain 'charge' threw me off.

[Renegade Paladin]

I'm fairly certain that sabers are statted out somewhere; I'm just not sure which book. (Cutlasses are in the FRCS and Stormwrack.)

[Ceridan]

Faerun has a sabre as a weapon. It's basically a longsword that gets bonuses to attack/damage (can't remember which one) when charging. It's one-handed and non-fineseable.

No. It gives a +1 to hit while mounted, as Sabers where primarily used by officers and cavalry.

[Zeal]

I'm pretty sure Stormwrack has a Sabre. Otherwise the rapier with slashing damage would work.

[Darrin]

Edit: the scimitar is a rapier that does slashing, except its not finessable, the sabre would be finessable.

Use a scimitar. The curved blade allows the full force of the blow to be focused to a single point on the blade rather than spreading it along a straight edge. I would guess the curved blade is also more suited to chopping/hacking downward and also slashing at a solid/stationary object as you charge by on horseback, whereas a completely straight blade striking an immovable object might be more likely to break/shatter. You'd probably want a softer, more flexible metal as well, easier to nick/dull the blade but flexible enough to survive the rigors of mounted combat. The exact definition of scimitar is vague enough to cover all that.

A one level dip into Dervish would make scimitars finessable, as well as drzztable.

[Leon]

I'm pretty sure Stormwrack has a Sabre. Otherwise the rapier with slashing damage would work.

It has the Cutlass

[Runolfr]

I think you should go with the scimitar. A cavalry sabre was designed as a cutting weapon, with the curved blade concentrating the force of the blow on a smaller area. The "dueling sabre" is a relatively modern invention associated with sport fencing, as far as I know, and not really well suited to genuine combat.

The scimitar is not Weapon Finesse-compatible, but I think that's appropriate, since a cutting weapon of this sort needs the mass to do its work properly.

[alexi]

well considering that the term sabre covers everything from the light Italian dueling sabre (what fencing sabre's are intending to cover) to big honking swiss 2 handers (a falchion could be used for this) and swords inbetween why not use a rapiers stats. The pictures or rapiers in most dnd books look like sabre's to my eyes anyways.

[Iudex Fatarum]

I would like to defend fencing real quick here, yes a fencing sabre is finesse and is actualy quite difficult, they don't as one person states it, "just charge". they do use finesse its just hard to see if you are not trained to see it or doing it yourself. I personaly have not done sabre but did foil for quite a few years under some of the top instructors in the states. my instructors didn't teach sabre because it was so complex. they stuck to foil and epee only.

If you haven't fenced don't comment on how they just charge please. its quite a respected sport.

Also the difference between a calvary sabre and a fencing or dueling sabre. the dueling sabre would be finesseable and I would give it the same stats more or less like that of a rapier, maybe bump up its damage a die or something but maybe take a minus on its use, so finesable but a -1 to use it that way.

[Lemur]

I've fenced for about 8 years . Which means I get to make all the cracks I want about the sport . Compared to foil and epee, saber fencers are more aggressive about closing distance, from what I've seen. I'm not suggesting there's no grace involved, but the style of it is rather fast.

[Raum]

Per WotC (in the Arms and Equipment Guide) a saber is another name for a scimitar. Not sure I entirely agree, the scimitar is usually significantly more point heavy. Of course WotC may contradict themselves in other books. :)

On fencing, isn't saber the only weapon allowed to score with the edge as well as the point? Fencing with the saber also disallows the hands as valid targets. Both rules will tend to encourage closing the range compared to foil or epee.

[Sundog]

Per WotC (in the Arms and Equipment Guide) a saber is another name for a scimitar. Not sure I entirely agree, the scimitar is usually significantly more point heavy. Of course WotC may contradict themselves in other books. :)

On fencing, isn't saber the only weapon allowed to score with the edge as well as the point? Fencing with the saber also disallows the hands as valid targets. Both rules will tend to encourage closing the range compared to foil or epee.

It's been a while, but IIRC, Sabre allows the edge, but not hands or feet, and does follow the right-of-way rules.

[Iudex Fatarum]

saber does close distance faster, I do aknowledge that. yes they are the only weapon that uses edge of blade. but the rule about hands is sort of true
can't hit the hands I believe (I can't say with certainty) but you can hit the entire arm. Foil is where the arm is off limits. because you hit with edge there is no rules about pressure so the object is to hit even a glancing blow can give a point whereas in foil or epee a glancing blow won't normaly set off the lights so no point made

[Mike_G]

On fencing, isn't saber the only weapon allowed to score with the edge as well as the point? Fencing with the saber also disallows the hands as valid targets. Both rules will tend to encourage closing the range compared to foil or epee.

The hand is a valid target in Sabre fencing. Anything above the waist is valid.

It's not a valid target in Foil, but it is in Epee and Sabre.

You are correct that Sabre is the only weapon where you can score touches with the edge. Sabre follows Right of Way rules like Foil (basically, if you counterattack into the opponent's attack, and you both get hit, he gets the point, since you reacted wrong. You are supposed to defend yourself first, since Fencing was initially developed as a training aid for swordplay, and the idea was to train you to survive, not trade fatal blows. Epee ignores Right of Way and goes solely on timing, so if you ignore his attack and hit him a half second before he runs you through, it's your point. Epee is silly.)

I hold a national rating in Sabre.

[Raum]

The hand is a valid target in Sabre fencing. Anything above the waist is valid.

The hand isn't valid according to United States Fencing Association's website. Here's a quote:

The saber is the modern version of the slashing cavalry sword. As such, the major difference between saber and the other two weapons is that saberists can score with the edge of their blade as well as their point. In saber, the target area is the entire body above the waist, excluding the hands.

[Mike_G]

The hand isn't valid according to United States Fencing Association's website. Here's a quote:

It's possible that changed with the introduction of electric scoring.

I saw bouts won and lost by hand touches when in college.

Ah, yes, I just checked the FIE international rules and I stand corrected. When Electronic scoring was introduced to Sabre in 1988 at the Olypic level, later for us poor college students, the necessity of a conductive lame over target area changed the target area, prboably since a metal lame glove would have made holding the weapon impossible. The target are now ends at the cuff of the glove, and excludes the hand. It also changed the results of an off target touch from a stop in the action to no effect at all, and made the crossover of the feet illegal.

Huh. That takes away my trademark "point to the ball of the thumb" attack that used to catch people with a sloppy en garde position.