Pokémon Thread XXIX: Sword, Shield, and Spoilers

[DaOldeWolf]

Considering that Lapras were in risk of extinction back in the first game, that's an interesting change of the status quo. Plus a reminder of the pokémon food chain.

And another reason for Galar to have strict border control, don't want to risk foreigners bringing in and releasing outside pokémon that could disturb their own ecosystem.

I hope that its not a serious point at all. Because its not even funny.

[Lord Raziere]

I hope that its not a serious point at all. Because its not even funny.

Indeed.

Look, all I got left is The Lockstin and Gnoggin video on this controversy. It is perhaps the fairest, most detailed and nuanced and centrist take on the situation, breaking down every viewpoint and just why this is happening on Gamefreaks end and the fandom end, explaining that this isn't just knee-jerk reaction and has been building for quite some time, while Gamefreak has honestly never been good at optimizing or programming their games. and that while they don't care...they really don't have to anymore given the franchises economic momentum, and are in fact in danger from a certain perspective since it seems they're not really all that needed anymore. While the fandom has horrible on both sides of the fence.

so yeah, its a bad situation all around.

[Bartmanhomer]

Is there a Pokemon that Mewtwo has a very difficult time beating?

[tonberrian]

Is there a Pokemon that Mewtwo has a very difficult time beating?

I'm sure there's a few, but Mewtwo outright loses, like, 100% of the time one on one with no setup on either side to Mega Rayquaza, barring a gimmicky focus sash build that isn't predicted (if you predict it, Mega Ray wins).

[OracleofWuffing]

Well, it's Mewtwo. He's pretty good at defeating lots of dudes, so... Another Mewtwo. And even then, that's not an entirely correct answer...

Depending on what kind of Mewtwo you're up against, Mega Sableye, Aegislash, Alolan Muk, and Klefki are possible options. Ghost-Type Arceus, Lunala, Giratina, Yveltal, Lugia, Primal Groudon, and Ho-Oh, if you're looking for more Legendary options. My gut would like to say Mega Slowbro and Mimikyu have a slim chance, but I haven't ran the numbers yet and would not be surprised if Mewtwo still wins out on those.

[deuterio12]

Is there a Pokemon that Mewtwo has a very difficult time beating?

Basically the top bulkiest pokémon that can tank at least two hits from Metwo.

Also anything that can inflict Status effects will also usually ruin Metwo's day since they usually aren't packing any way to heal those. Paralyzis to cripple Mewtwo's great speed, or for Mewtwo X in specific, Burn will neuter them pretty hard by halving their great Attack stat.

[Razade]

Indeed.

Look, all I got left is The Lockstin and Gnoggin video on this controversy. It is perhaps the fairest, most detailed and nuanced and centrist take on the situation, breaking down every viewpoint and just why this is happening on Gamefreaks end and the fandom end, explaining that this isn't just knee-jerk reaction and has been building for quite some time, while Gamefreak has honestly never been good at optimizing or programming their games. and that while they don't care...they really don't have to anymore given the franchises economic momentum, and are in fact in danger from a certain perspective since it seems they're not really all that needed anymore. While the fandom has horrible on both sides of the fence.

so yeah, its a bad situation all around.

Is it? It's a video game company making a decision to change things up on one side and a bunch of angry fans on the other. On the side of Gamefreak...I don't see people sending death threats. That's absolutely happening on the other side and I don't feel like I have to search far to find that sort of behavior. A single youtube video and its comment section should be enough. Social media is full of them. This isn't a "both side has bad people" thing.

It's not like I don't get why people are upset. I was a little disappointed that they went that track. If SwSh doesn't tickle my fancy...I'm happy rolling up my sleeves and not buying the next game. Sun and Moon didn't thrill me and I still have all my other games and I go back to them from time to time. They can't take that away from me. I got over the disappointment when I realized the last time I had a full Dex was in Gold and Silver. I then realized that was the last time I cared about having a full Dex too.

I'm optimistic that SwSh will be fun because that's all I care about. Is the game fun? Did I enjoy the region, did I enjoy the story and the exploration? If yes, then ya know...whatever. If not...then maybe it's time to find another game series. But the toxicity from the fanbase around this "controversy" and honestly people getting that bent out of shape to even think of using that term...It's killing my interest in the game and my enthusiasm for it.

[deuterio12]

Is it? It's a video game company making a decision to change things up on one side and a bunch of angry fans on the other. On the side of Gamefreak...I don't see people sending death threats. That's absolutely happening on the other side and I don't feel like I have to search far to find that sort of behavior. A single youtube video and its comment section should be enough. Social media is full of them. This isn't a "both side has bad people" thing.

Quite true. It's also quite disturbing to glimpse at their distorted vision where they consider that "They have their reasons, and nobody's forcing you to buy the game if you don't want" and "BURN DOWN GAME FREAK! KILL THEM ALL!" are "equally bad".

I'm optimistic that SwSh will be fun because that's all I care about. Is the game fun? Did I enjoy the region, did I enjoy the story and the exploration?

Same here.

But the toxicity from the fanbase around this "controversy" and honestly people getting that bent out of shape to even think of using that term...It's killing my interest in the game and my enthusiasm for it.

That was their plan from the start. They hate pokémon from the bottom of their hearts and want the franchise to die at all costs, as seen as expressing their explicit intent to actually kill the people developing the game.

The only safe move is to ignore them, evade interacting with their lethal toxicity.

So here's some more positive pokémon (fan)art to counter their negativity. Enjoy!

[Lord Raziere]

Is it? It's a video game company making a decision to change things up on one side and a bunch of angry fans on the other. On the side of Gamefreak...I don't see people sending death threats. That's absolutely happening on the other side and I don't feel like I have to search far to find that sort of behavior. A single youtube video and its comment section should be enough. Social media is full of them. This isn't a "both side has bad people" thing.

It's not like I don't get why people are upset. I was a little disappointed that they went that track. If SwSh doesn't tickle my fancy...I'm happy rolling up my sleeves and not buying the next game. Sun and Moon didn't thrill me and I still have all my other games and I go back to them from time to time. They can't take that away from me. I got over the disappointment when I realized the last time I had a full Dex was in Gold and Silver. I then realized that was the last time I cared about having a full Dex too.

I'm optimistic that SwSh will be fun because that's all I care about. Is the game fun? Did I enjoy the region, did I enjoy the story and the exploration? If yes, then ya know...whatever. If not...then maybe it's time to find another game series. But the toxicity from the fanbase around this "controversy" and honestly people getting that bent out of shape to even think of using that term...It's killing my interest in the game and my enthusiasm for it.

I see a company that that never got better at optimizing their game forced to make bad decisions because market forces beyond their control that then caused a big break in their fandom, defenders that while wanting to have fun and mean well don't seem to understand that companies are companies, they don't care about you, they're not your friends and accepting lesser quality is not going to solve anything, and attackers that while having good points some of them went too far and now gives them a bad reputation.

your the one who seems to be more black and white about the situation than me. just because you don't want to acknowledge that such a seemingly unimportant issue can get so large, and can be important to some in ways that isn't important to you, and that sometimes people are right to not be positive. honestly? its about time that gamefreak stopped getting free passes based on pipe dreams and started getting treated like every other game company, because its not as if anyone gets up in arms when people criticize other companies. this is simply a bubble that was waiting for burst for a long time.

if you want to stay out of it, stay out of it. let me tell you a wisdom I've learned: if its big enough to be called controversy, it doesn't matter if you think it shouldn't be. Either your in or your out, and if you don't want be in it, you don't want go in in the first place, because everyone else will care more about it than you and argue longer. keep this in mind, your life will be far more peaceful if you know when to be silent. me? I've made my choice, too late now, probably not the best choice, from your point of view. thats okay. you really care about this stupidity that little, then go make better choices for both us, probably very wise of you.

[Razade]

I really...don't know what to say to most of that. Mostly because it's a diatribe in a passive cloak and I fear even touching the majority of it with a ten foot pole is going to get me scrubbed.

What I will say however, is I made my feelings clear on the announcement from the get go.

No National Dex is...disappointing and not being able to transfer Pokemon from all the previous games to the Switch is even more so. I understand the logic behind it, the effort to scale up every Pokemon for the new gimmick and include the sprites in the open world-ness is a daunting task. Doesn't change the fact that it's a shame. I guess we'll see what the Regional Dex is going to look like, it may well be the largest and this is a small concern.

That's really all I feel I need to say on the matter. I'm not happy about it but I also don't know, as I've mentioned, anything about the game. No one does. No one knows how many pokemon it's going to have. How many are going to be brought over, etc etc. We're all in the dark with a while left before the game comes out. I'm happy to wait and review a game when I can play it and review it honestly. I will happily call it a steaming pile of crap if and when it proves to be. I won't join your lynch mob however.

[Lord Raziere]

Your free to believe what you want. But some idiots elsewhere doesn't make my criticisms invalid, and your not going to convince me that your reasonable if your two views of where I'm come from is "Lynch Mob" and "KILL GAMEFREAK" because I've never advocated for either of these things and I don't condone these things. I didn't think I have to say those words, but apparently I do.

that doesn't sound like people open to talking to me so....okay. believe that if you want. its not as if I can convince you. I'm just trying to be reasonable and my reason tells me that Gamefreak have their flaws like everyone else and they're showing. I can't just.....deny the drop in quality. I can't just....ignore this.

But okay, if you think I'm some....unreasonable person, I guess we have nothing to talk about. I'm sorry that it apparently it has to be that way.

[enderlord99]

Nobody (AFAIK) is saying that you, personally, have stated (or possessed) a desire for anything lethal to happen; they have merely pointed out that there have been threats of murder aimed at Gamefreak and none coming from Gamefreak...

...which doesn't really mean much, seeing as Gamefreak is a corporation and thus has at least a veneer of legitimacy, but hey. They pointed it out.

My opinion is that I'm not going to get Sw/Sh because I don't have a Switch to play it on in the first place, but I also am not particularly disappointed in the sudden lack of full legacy-support... because I don't have a switch to play it on in the first place.

[Razade]

Your free to believe what you want. But some idiots elsewhere doesn't make my criticisms invalid, and your not going to convince me that your reasonable if your two views of where I'm come from is "Lynch Mob" and "KILL GAMEFREAK" because I've never advocated for either of these things and I don't condone these things. I didn't think I have to say those words, but apparently I do.

that doesn't sound like people open to talking to me so....okay. believe that if you want. its not as if I can convince you. I'm just trying to be reasonable and my reason tells me that Gamefreak have their flaws like everyone else and they're showing. I can't just.....deny the drop in quality. I can't just....ignore this.

But okay, if you think I'm some....unreasonable person, I guess we have nothing to talk about. I'm sorry that it apparently it has to be that way.

I never claimed you were threatening violence on Gamefreak. You're not doing it here at least, as far as I can tell. I've no idea where you're also going off on the subject but I'm happy to take your word that you're not doing it elsewhere. I'm also not arguing from a position of that being your argument. I think I've been more than fair in actually addressing the things you've said. As such I'm still eager for you to supply me a proper translation of the Famitsu article we were discussing earlier in the thread since you wanted to assure me that I had several different mistranslations, one of which was from the previous video you linked to. It's cool if you don't have it but I think it demonstrates that I'm addressing your specific criticisms and not lumping you in with the people wanting to burn Gamefreak's studio down. You are part of a wider reactionary movement and ya know...that's what the term "lynch mob" means. It doesn't mean you're literally trying to hang someone.

No one is stopping you from sharing your opinions. People are just disagreeing with you. They're just as allowed to do that, and explain why, as you are sharing them. You're the one shutting down the conversation with "If I'm just unreasonable then we've got nothing to talk about". What's there to say to that?

[Bartmanhomer]

This is starting to get real serious and crazy here. If I may interject Lord Raziere, I understand you're very upset about the disappointment of Pokemon Sword and Shield Version Game. My advice is don't buy the game at all.

[Karnitis]

This is a slight derailment, and a neutral statement not taking either side, but do we as a public ever care about what qualifies as a death threat?

I don't say that to minimize a talking point, but I swear, politicians get death threats, Instagram models get death threats, gaming companies get death threats, bakers get death threats...

Call me old fashioned, but unless it comes in a letter form, I'm not worried. comments, retweets, and DMs can be fired off in a second. While that shows you have unhinged people unhappy with you, I'm sure Mcdonalds employees get the same level of hatred in their face. A letter shows premeditation and knowing your physical address. Now that scares me.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

Is there a Pokemon that Mewtwo has a very difficult time beating?

Ratatta, depending on whether they see the FEAR coming.




(FEAR is one of many gimmicky builds to which pretty much any Pokémon has plenty of answers, but not always on them right now.)

[Lvl 2 Expert]

I hope that its not a serious point at all. Because its not even funny.

It took me about ten minutes, but you mean the suspicious timing that Lapras is no longer threatened now that Japan is officially opening the whale hunt again?

Because yeah that's kind of weird, but outside of that context I think it's actually pretty cool. Pokémon is an optimistic place, so species should bounce back.

[OracleofWuffing]

{Scrubbed}

Okay, fine, that's my soapbox for the evening. Y'all can resume talking about how doofy Vanilluxe is now.

[deuterio12]

(FEAR is one of many gimmicky builds to which pretty much any Pokémon has plenty of answers, but not always on them right now.)

There's always just switching out, although that leaves one vulnerable to Pursuit.

That's one of the things that I love about the pokémon PvP, seeking to outplan your opponent.

Because yeah that's kind of weird, but outside of that context I think it's actually pretty cool. Pokémon is an optimistic place, so species should bounce back.

The concept of "species" has always been murky in pokémon. Like ditto can just breed with anything that has a gender. And then there's the whole "a whale can have viable offspring with a kitty". And go figure where the unique legendary pokémon fit in the middle of all of this. Then there's Nidorina and Nidoqueen that can't breed at all either (plus are considered a separate species from the all-male nidorino and nidoking).

[Seerow]

{Scrubbed post, scrubbed quote}Okay, fine, that's my soapbox for the evening. Y'all can resume talking about how doofy Vanilluxe is now.

I'll be honest I stopped reading halfway through this, but assuming you didn't take a hard left somewhere along the way and the actual intent boils down to can we please just shelve Pokedex discussion/gamefreak bashing until new info is available, I agree

[Spore]

You may have enjoyed the last pokemon games. but I did not. I quasi-finished Pokemon X (my Nuzlocke stopped at the Elite Four) but at any point past the 4th gym I was just playing out of spite of getting SOME entertainment out of my 40 euros.

I really liked ORAS, but Sun and Moon was really a letdown to me. I'm not even in the camp that exalts BW (and BW2) so much because the story was so good. It is at least SOME story. But the current games are hand-holdey AND lack a compelling story. That is why comic relief characters like Guzma and Team Skull shine so well. Everything else is so dull and dumbed down. And the game is slooooow. And to me, SwSh needs to be a system seller because I don't have a Switch (nor a TV) but I don't really feel like it is.

If I'd buy a Switch it would not be for Pokemon anymore. It would be for Super Mario and Zelda, Mario Kart/Party. I like Nintendo's stance on not going with every major gaming trend but I feel they REALLY missed the memo on what people liked about past games.

Or coming back to Pokemon, reheating the same old formula for the 20th time.

[Razade]

I don't think ShSw needs to be a system seller. They already have those. Mario Odessy and Breath of the Wild are, by all metrics, already those. Add on top of that Mario Maker 2, which seems to be a smash hit, and speaking of smash...Smash Ultimate...they've got a pretty good draw. It'd be great if ShSw were a system seller, one could argue that it already is. I know at least one person, me, who bought it knowing that the next main game was going to be on the Switch. The other games didn't hurt though.

[deuterio12]

I don't think ShSw needs to be a system seller. They already have those. Mario Odessy and Breath of the Wild are, by all metrics, already those. Add on top of that Mario Maker 2, which seems to be a smash hit, and speaking of smash...Smash Ultimate...they've got a pretty good draw. It'd be great if ShSw were a system seller, one could argue that it already is. I know at least one person, me, who bought it knowing that the next main game was going to be on the Switch. The other games didn't hurt though.

Don't forget me Xenoblade Chronicles 2, which is also a exploring/collecting game. Except you'll be collecting mostly sword waifus. Stilll XBC2 ended up quite popular and well received and certainly sold no small amount of Switches.

[tgva8889]

Sword and Shield is clearly intended to be a system seller, but not of Nintendo Switches. It's clearly going to be their flagship title for the Nintendo Switch Lite, the smaller more portable but less home-playable version of the system. So we'll have to see how well Switch Lite sales do with this new Pokemon game.

Nintendo, certainly, would love for Pokemon to do well but won't make or break their system on this game. Fire Emblem is doing extremely well and they already won massively with Breath of the Wild and Super Mario Odyssey and Smash and other stuff, so I think they'll be good for at least another year or two if Pokemon doesn't do as well as they hope.

[deuterio12]

Sword and Shield is clearly intended to be a system seller, but not of Nintendo Switches. It's clearly going to be their flagship title for the Nintendo Switch Lite, the smaller more portable but less home-playable version of the system. So we'll have to see how well Switch Lite sales do with this new Pokemon game. Nintendo, certainly, would love for Pokemon to do well but won't make or break their system on this game. Fire Emblem is doing extremely well and they already won massively with Breath of the Wild and Super Mario Odyssey and Smash and other stuff, so I think they'll be good for at least another year or two if Pokemon doesn't do as well as they hope.

You'll be able to play all of those other games in the Switch Lite too (or Pokémon Sword and Shield in a normal Switch).

The lite it's not even more portable when you consider that the normal Switch can detach the controllers to have smaller length

So the way I see it, the lite is meant as a budget version of the Switch for those people who were more in the fence. 100 bucks cheaper is non-insignificant money and will certainly get a bunch of people to try it out even if they aren't interested in pokémon.

Either way, plenty of good stuff coming on the horizon for the Switch besides Pokémon Sword and Shield. There's Astral Chain, Daemon X Machina, Breath of the Wild 2 already confirmed, and Metroid Prime 4 will come out eventually.

[Razade]

My argument wasn't that it wasn't intended to be a console seller. My argument was it doesn't need to be for it to be successful or popular. The Switch has one of the most critically well received libraries of the modern console market. The only complaint I've seen leveled at it is that those releases are far apart but I don't see that as an inherently bad thing. I'd rather we get good games rather than just a ton of crap and there's plenty of that in the port library the Switch has under its umbrella already.

ShSw is for sure going to push units. It's one of the most popular franchises in the world. I wouldn't be surprised even a little bit if the Dex drama doesn't do much in impacting sales. Time will tell but pre-orders are pretty high. They rarely disclose actual numbers, so there's no way to know just how they compare to previous games but I'd be interested to see how many cancellations have come about.

[deuterio12]

My argument wasn't that it wasn't intended to be a console seller. My argument was it doesn't need to be for it to be successful or popular. The Switch has one of the most critically well received libraries of the modern console market. The only complaint I've seen leveled at it is that those releases are far apart but I don't see that as an inherently bad thing. I'd rather we get good games rather than just a ton of crap and there's plenty of that in the port library the Switch has under its umbrella already.

Aye aye!

ShSw is for sure going to push units. It's one of the most popular franchises in the world. I wouldn't be surprised even a little bit if the Dex drama doesn't do much in impacting sales. Time will tell but pre-orders are pretty high. They rarely disclose actual numbers, so there's no way to know just how they compare to previous games but I'd be interested to see how many cancellations have come about.

Considering the complete lack of "pokémon sword and shield being cancelled en masse" youtube videos, I would bet the number of pre-orders has actually been going up.

[deuterio12]

More pokémon Sword and Shield info to come out in the 7th.

Personally I'm hoping that the Galar forms that have been rumored around are confirmed.

[Bartmanhomer]

More pokémon Sword and Shield info to come out in the 7th.

Personally I'm hoping that the Galar forms that have been rumored around are confirmed.

I hope the news are true on this one.

[OracleofWuffing]

Weird dream I had. It was contradicted by everything we know about Sword and Shield (had gameboy-styled graphics and the screen was vertical), but dreams be dreams.

They had implemented a system where you could "chain" pokemon moves together to strengthen them. The example present was that using Leech Seed followed by Foliage caused Foliage to also absorb 25% of the damage it caused. There was also a new electric move that could be chained with Growl to inflict the drowsy status Yawn causes, for some reason. You could also learn moves strictly as part of a chain, like you could have Tackle, Foliage, Leech Seed, Growl, or you could have Tackle, Leech Seed -> Foliage, Growl, free space, and you could only execute Foliage if you used Leech Seed on the preceding turn (and thus couldn't use Leech Seed twice in a row). I guess it kind of already exists in the Defense Curl and Rollout behavior, but it was implied that a whole lot of moves could be chained like that.

Would be hella powercreep in terms of coverage diversity, but an interesting enough thread to share.