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2007-10-01, 05:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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divine metacheese?codzila?someone please explain
Well nuff said...can someone explain to me divine metacheese...i remember its using feats that expend turn attempts in connection with nightsticks in particular...
Well can i get some examples?
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2007-10-01, 05:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: divine metacheese?codzila?someone please explain
The basic gist is that, as a Cleric (a.k.a. one-half of the nickname CoDzilla), you take whatever feats you need to get Persistent Spell and then take Divine Metamagic (Persistent Spell).
From there, you can burn Turn Undead uses to make spells that have certain casting times last hours per casting (I think some of the popular ones are Divine Power or Righteous Might or something like that), and thus one casting keeps them going all day.
The item called a "Nightstick" gives you extra Turn attempts for a very cheap cost, and people use it to DMM a lot of spells that normally wouldn't be able to be Persisted (specifically, because DMM says that the spells don't use up a higher level slot, so you can Persist spells that would be too high of a level to normally Persist).Last edited by RTGoodman; 2007-10-01 at 05:23 PM.
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2007-10-01, 05:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: divine metacheese?codzila?someone please explain
Divine power is a popular one to persist. You get +6 Strength, BAB equal to your caster level and 1 temporary hit point per caster level. Basically you become a fighter with +6 Strength, except you have spells instead of bonus feats, and a better Will save.
Add in divine favor and/or righteous might, and it's even better.Last edited by Jasdoif; 2007-10-01 at 05:28 PM.
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2007-10-01, 05:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: divine metacheese?codzila?someone please explain
how about divine metamagic for heighten spell?You could theoretically increase the level of the spell as long as u have turn attempts...
Btw what book is nighsticks from?
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2007-10-01, 05:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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2007-10-01, 06:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: divine metacheese?codzila?someone please explain
Nightsticks are from Libris Mortis, I believe. The item apparently seemed reasonable to the developers as the book was about undead-heavy campaigns.
Since Righteous Might is has a size bonus and divine power is an enhancement bonus, I think they stack, giving you a +10 to strength if you can get both of them off.
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2007-10-01, 06:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: divine metacheese?codzila?someone please explain
Well...with heighten you could probably affect any creature with any spell...thus imagine a multiple heightened disintigrate for partial cheese..thus you aren't taking full advantage of it...
Sure persistent spell seems to be much more powerful if used correctly...
Though an evil cleric focusing in DMM and heighten spell would be quite strong too:D
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2007-10-01, 06:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: divine metacheese?codzila?someone please explain
Heighten Spell only increases the save DC (very slightly) and makes spells able to breach a Globe of Invulnerability... Heighten Spell isn't a good use of Divine Metamagic.
Shadowcraft Mages love Heighten Spell. Not many other casters really need it.
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2007-10-01, 06:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: divine metacheese?codzila?someone please explain
And Heighten Spell only goes up to 9th level anyway.
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2007-10-01, 06:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: divine metacheese?codzila?someone please explain
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2007-10-01, 06:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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- London, England.
Re: divine metacheese?codzila?someone please explain
Not quite right. Heighten Spell can only raise a spell to level 9. However, the Epic feat Improved Heighten Spell lets you raise a spell to whatever nigh-silly level you like.
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2007-10-01, 07:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: divine metacheese?codzila?someone please explain
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2007-10-01, 08:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: divine metacheese?codzila?someone please explain
No, the Shadowcraft Mage only uses Heighten to get a spell up to 9th level. That final 1-level boost to make it 10th level comes from another feat, Earth something from Races of Stone I think.
Edit: Duh, you mentioned it yourself. Earth Spell.Last edited by Douglas; 2007-10-01 at 08:50 PM.
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2007-10-01, 10:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: divine metacheese?codzila?someone please explain
I actually find it invaluable for any Batman-caster who has a limited number of Spells Known (e.g. Sorcerers). If a Sorcerer takes Heighten Spell, a number of his low-level save-or-suck spells suddenly don't become obsolete as he gets into higher levels.
Heightened Grease or Heightened Stinking Cloud are scary for monsters at almost any level. And the Sorcerer can now spend his higher-level Spells Known adding more variety to his repertoire instead of more cutting-edge save-or-suck.You can call me Draz.
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2007-10-01, 11:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: divine metacheese?codzila?someone please explain
But what would be the point of having ridiculously high str when you dont have the feats for it nor the HP...a melee cleric has a lot of MAD...wis, str, cha, con...How would you make it work?
If you dont have high str to begin with then you wont cut it as an attacker and with low con you wont make much of a tank...Sure you can heal but you wont be able to attack and healing goes up to 52 hp until the heal spell...
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2007-10-01, 11:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: divine metacheese?codzila?someone please explain
Divine metamagic doesn't work on arcane spells!
You could get Disintegrate as a domain spell, and then do this trick once per day, but that doesn't seem worth it. If you want to do damage, a self-buffing melee cleric with 24-hour buffs is going to be a lot more efficient than a cleric that heightens a few spells by a few levels every day.
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2007-10-02, 12:00 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: divine metacheese?codzila?someone please explain
Honestly its not that hard. You will probably be in fullplate so you only need a 12 dex. After that its just WIS and CON with cha as a third spot. The extra turning feat will make up a low cha score.
A cleric with a 10 str can get a 16 str (+3 bonus) with just divine power (i think thats the name), with righteous might you can bump that up to a 24 str (+7 bonus) which is respectable. All the while getting DR 15/good or evil (depending on alignment), a total +3 (+4 for nat armor, -1 for size) bonus to armor, and your weapon grows one size.
At 7th level you can persist divine power, thus giving enough str to melee and the BAB to melee, all the while bieng able to cast spells.
Edit: Righteous might adds a +8 size bonus to str not a +4. for a total of +14 to str.Last edited by leperkhaun; 2007-10-02 at 12:19 AM.
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2007-10-02, 12:14 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: divine metacheese?codzila?someone please explain
Do note, however, that the +6 Strength from divine power is an enhancement bonus and therefore does not stack with belts of giant strength and gauntlets of ogre power. I would definitely put at least 12 in your natural Strength if you're going this route, and preferably 14.
Last edited by Dausuul; 2007-10-02 at 12:15 AM.
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2007-10-02, 12:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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2007-10-02, 12:26 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: divine metacheese?codzila?someone please explain
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2007-10-02, 12:26 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: divine metacheese?codzila?someone please explain
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2007-10-02, 12:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: divine metacheese?codzila?someone please explain
Obviously you wouldn't. The point is that the divine power bonus is taking the place of the Strength-boosting item a melee warrior would normally use; it's not stacking with such an item. Since Strength boosters are one of the cheapest and most effective ways to improve a melee warrior's performance, this is an important distinction.
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2007-10-02, 03:00 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: divine metacheese?codzila?someone please explain
If you're willing to use Divine Metacheese, then you'd probably be willing to abuse Polymorph Any Object as well. With that, you can gain a permanent polymorph to War Troll (from MM3), or if you have 10 levels in Contemplative (from Complete Divine), you could use a Horned Devil instead. Add in a DMM Persisted Bite of the Werebear (from Spell Compendium, cast via a Miracle) and the character's Strength score would be in the mid 40's - and could get to 55 or more with other buffs. You wouldn't need a whole lot of Int or Cha (since you're relying on Nightsticks for turn attempts), so that means the only scores you really need to worry much about are Constitution (for hitpoints) and Wisdom.
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2007-10-02, 04:07 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: divine metacheese?codzila?someone please explain
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2007-10-02, 09:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: divine metacheese?codzila?someone please explain
Here's an example, which I used to shock some DMs. I find it absolutely, frikkin' hilarious but then I'm sick. I just love that the character looks like a large, flying angel, has hideous stats and heals and buffs companions just by being near them. It's 25 point buy, average hit dice and uses the wealth-by-level guideline. All rules legal.
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2007-10-02, 09:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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2007-10-02, 04:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: divine metacheese?codzila?someone please explain
Well indeed instead of getting high physical scores you could just poly yourself to something with them, as per our druid friends, as long as you can still cast it should be fine, then persisting str enhancing spells for extra effect...probably righteous might and divine power, thus you need 18 turn attempts...
Also i think goliath greathammer might be the best weapon for such a char. Its 2h with 1d12 dmg at M size and 3d6 at L size. Its crit is 20 X4...You wont be attacking too many times to take advantage of a better crit chance so i don't think it's needed...however, whenever you do actually crit...it's gonna be really painful!
Though this only works at high levels with polymorph any object...Is there another divine spell of lower level in any other books to make this combo possible?Last edited by kemmotar; 2007-10-02 at 04:52 PM.
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2007-10-02, 05:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: divine metacheese?codzila?someone please explain
In my experience, that's a relatively minor concern for a caster. Most of the time you're not going to move more than a 5-foot step anyhow; giving up a move action for a higher save DC is well worth it.
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2007-10-02, 05:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: divine metacheese?codzila?someone please explain
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2007-10-02, 08:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: divine metacheese?codzila?someone please explain
Ah, yes, of course you're right. Silly me to think that a full-round action takes 1 round to complete.