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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    BlueKnightGuy

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    Post Weapon Master Reworks

    Weapon Master Feat Rework - Meant to make the Feat more attractive for martial classes.

    Original feat:

    Weapon Master
    You have practiced extensively with a variety of weapons, gaining the following benefits:
    • Increase your Strength or Dexterity score by 1, to a maximum of 20
    • You gain proficiency with four weapons of your choice.

    Thoughts:
    Spoiler
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    In the system of bounded accuracy, the boost in proficiency for classes like bladesinger wizards and forge and trickery domain clerics is usually ideal, but there’s also the fact that this is a half feat, which also boosts an ability score. Also, more hard to use weapons like firearms become available for anyone willing to spend an (ASI) ability score increase. This feat makes a niche of concepts come to life, but I feel the niche is very small.

    Another great use for this feat is to introduce other non typical weaponry. Siege weaponry and weapons that are built to disable and control opponents rather than damage them (harpoons that would permit players to grapple at range comes to mind, or even spiked chains or double bladed swords that permit users to use two weapon fighting with better damage dice than pole arm master offers. There was some cool stuff in 3.5, ya’ll)

    This feat becomes attractive only to gameplay that sees players switching their weapons a lot. I personally think that tavern brawler makes for a more effective feat choice, mostly because it has a more broad effect paired with a few other extra benefits and it’s a half feat to boot.

    I want to make Weapon Master into a feat that everyone wants to take, martial and otherwise, when you really want to get good at weapon attacks. Not at hitting, per say, because that’s what gaining proficiency accounts for.

    We then have to then look at the other side of the coin and say how picking this feat influences our damage. As it is... not very much. It does offer an ability score increase, which can offer a circumstantial +1 if our AS is an odd number.


    Without further rambling, here’s a few ideas that I’d like to balance/talk about that could serve as suitable replacements for that last feat in the PHB.

    Spoiler: Idea #1:
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    Weapon Master
    You have practiced extensively with a variety of weapons, gaining the following benefits:
    • You gain proficiency with four weapons of your choice.
    • When you make an attack with a weapon chosen by this feat, add half of your proficiency bonus to your damage dealt on a hit.


    Pro’s

    + Easy to calculate- just add extra damage.
    + Stacks nicely with barbarian’s rage damage, and adds more value to Extra Attack (Fighter’s especially)
    + Represents a tangible advantage over just boosting the relevant attacking Stat- which is meant to affect the game more broadly with skill checks and saving throws.

    Con’s

    - pushes the Dueling and TWF fighting styles into “too good” territory
    - Makes Barbarian’s feel less special - after all, extra scaling damage is a defining feature for the class.
    - Encourages characters to multiclass AND pick up this feat, rather than just taking the feat to satisfy multiclassing needs without actually having to multiclass.
    - Ambiguous in wording - characters already proficient with weapons implied to be unable to pick weapons.


    Spoiler: Idea #2:
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    Weapon Master
    You have practiced exclusively with a one type of weapon, gaining the following benefits:
    • You gain proficiency with one weapon of your choice.
    • When you make attacks with the chosen weapon, you gain a fighting style associated with the weapon.
    Weapons with the finesse property may choose Dueling,
    Weapons with the light property may choose Two Weapon Fighting,
    Weapons with the heavy property may choose Great Weapon Fighting,
    Weapons with the ammunition property may choose Archery.

    Pro’s

    + Restrictions feel fair, and can keep players focused on certain weapons, rather than overwhelming them with lots of choices to make.
    + Helps non martial classes feel like a Fighter-lite with the inclusion of a fighting style.
    + Characters taking this can really pull off specialization with a single weapon which feels good.

    Con’s

    - Archery style can lead to absurd jumps in accuracy, balance accordingly.
    - Negative effect on classes that actually wants proficiencies to pick up weapons for general use, like trickery domain clerics. Having to pick between ranged or close combat feels like it could be a trap option later.
    - No synergy with Dual Wielder feat, which actually curtails damage dealt because you can’t pick better weapons.
    - Doesn’t really address what happens when weapons made of materials that consider them light or heavy (Mithral or Adamantium)


    Spoiler: Idea #3:
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    Weapon Master
    Requirements: Strength 13 or Dexterity 13
    Choose one weapon. You are proficient with this weapon.
    Choose one from these Fighting styles:
    Dueling, Great Weapon Fighting, and Two Weapon Fighting.
    You may benefit from the chosen fighting styles with your chosen weapon.

    Alternatively, you may choose two weapons that you are already proficient in, and increase your Strength or Dexterity score by 1, to a maximum of 20.
    Critical hits from these weapons now let you roll the weapon damage dice three times instead of twice.


    Variant: Doubling Damage
    If critical hits instead double the dice damage, this feat instead lets the player roll an additional weapon damage dice after doubling the first dice roll.

    Pro’s

    + Options in general; this feat will be able to do what you need whether or not you’re a martial or a non-martial class.
    + Better Synergy with Dual Wielder- on both sides, to boot. TWF grants more attacks and makes the benefits come into play more often.
    + Designed to make the pay off for criticals better- which is something that Paladins, Rogues, and Barbarians enjoyed but strangely enough not fighters, the class that should be enjoying the most critical hits thanks to Extra Attack.

    Con’s

    - Players using this feat can feel as though they miss the full brunt of it.
    - The feat feels targeted- which is debatably a good thing or an issue, given the ‘made for everyone’ feel for feats.
    - punishes classes that don’t have good proficiencies- especially if you have an inflexible DM that won’t allow additional proficiency training. This feat becomes better with downtime if non-martial classes want the critical boost.


    Spoiler: Idea #4:
    Show


    Weapon Master
    You have practiced extensively with a variety of weapons, gaining the following benefits:
    • Increase your Strength or Dexterity score by 1, to a maximum of 20
    • You gain proficiency with three weapons of your choice.
    • You gain an additional attunement slot that can only be used to attune to magic weapons that you have proficiency with.

    Pro’s

    + Directly benefits every class, depending on what the DM rules as a magic weapon. This can give a wizard an additional staff to attune to, free up slots on the rogue to make room for other items, or several other possibilities.
    + Is still a half feat (this may be subject to change, however)
    + Picking three can be a good treat later if you manage to find an attunement weapon that you can attune for free because you picked it with this feat.

    Con’s
    - hard to make it matter in early levels- magic items aren’t necessary to make things work in a campaign.
    - Sorta makes the character into an (old) Artificer-lite rather than a martial-lite, which sorta messes around with the overall feel of this idea.
    - this is listed as an epic boon in the DMG- this may unbalance your game if utilized.


    I put these up here just to talk about these different approaches and see which of them ya’ll like the most and why, and maybe what some of the implications for a few of the designs could generate. Thanks for your time! :)

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    Beholder

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    Default Re: Weapon Master Reworks

    I feel that the thing with choosing fighting styles is a little weird, although I think there ought already to be a feat that does that. My thought would be something like.
    Spoiler: weapon mastery idea.
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    1. +1 STR or DEX.
    Choose four weapoweapons you are not proficiency in. You are now proficient in them.
    Alternatively (to bonus weapons) choose one weapon with which you are proficient. You gain expertise in this weapon. You can take this feat multiple times, each one choosing different weapons.
    Pro:
    This is fairly simple to implement.
    It feels like it has appeal for everyone
    Its more powerful with the accuracy boost.
    Con:
    It might want to be several feats, especially as the wording states that you can't get expertise if you get the normal proficiency from the feat.
    It may add an over-powerful accuracy boost, to the point where you're hitting a tarrasque most of the time.

    These are just my first thoughts.

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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Weapon Master Reworks

    How about?
    Weapon Master
    +1 to your Strength or Dex, to a max of 20.
    Select 4 weapons. You gain proficiency with those weapons if you didn't have it before. When you roll a 1 on either an attack roll or damage roll, you may reroll that die. You can reroll as many dice as your proficiency bonus and regain expended rerolls on a long rest.

  4. - Top - End - #4
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    Default Re: Weapon Master Reworks

    At my table we just have:
    Martial Proficiency:
    +1 Str/Dex
    You are proficient with all armor and shields
    You are proficient with all weapons

    (The effects are paraphrased.)
    Last edited by Yunru; 2019-04-21 at 01:06 PM.

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    Default Re: Weapon Master Reworks

    Quote Originally Posted by Yunru View Post
    At my table we just have:
    Martial Proficiency:
    +1 Str/Dex
    You are proficient with all armor and shields
    You are proficient with all weapons

    (The effects are paraphrased.)
    Giving all armor proficiency is overpowered as heck for classes that don't get anything beyond light armor. It's practically two (three in the case of a Wizard) Feats for the price of one.

    Here's how I'd do it:

    Weapon Master:
    You have practiced in the use of many weapons. You gain the following benefits.
    • +1 STR or DEX
    • You gain proficiency in all Simple Weapons.
    • If you already had proficiency in all Simple Weapons, you instead gain proficiency in all Martial Weapons.
    • If you already had proficiency in all Martial Weapons, you instead gain proficiency in all Exotic Weapons.

    You may take this Feat more than once.


    Simple, straightforward, a significant benefit to any class, and even the martial classes can get something out of it.
    Last edited by Crisis21; 2019-04-21 at 01:25 PM.
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  6. - Top - End - #6
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    Default Re: Weapon Master Reworks

    Quote Originally Posted by Crisis21 View Post
    Giving all armor proficiency is overpowered as heck for classes that don't get anything beyond light armor. It's practically two (three in the case of a Wizard) Feats for the price of one.
    Or one level of Cleric.
    It's only three feats for the price of one because those three feats suck ass.
    Last edited by Yunru; 2019-04-21 at 07:30 PM.

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    Default Re: Weapon Master Reworks

    Quote Originally Posted by Yunru View Post
    Or one level of Cleric.
    It's only three feats for the price of one because those three feats suck ass.
    Losing you your capstone and putting you half a spell level behind on your highest level spells. (Even if you can still upcast, higher level spells are better than upcast lower levels.)

    Also requires picking certain domains.

    Also requires a minimum 13 in Wisdom.

    Whereas your feats gives, if played smartly, around +8 AC. Why +8? Because Mage Armor with 8 Dex is AC 12, and Full Plate and Shield is 20.

    Now, you might not want to pump Strength all the way to 15, in which case, you're looking at around 18 for your AC. Still a MASSIVE improvement. It also lowers your MADness, since you can safely dump Dex and only need a passable Strength.
    I have a LOT of Homebrew!

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    Default Re: Weapon Master Reworks

    Quote Originally Posted by Yunru View Post
    Or one level of Cleric.
    It's only three feats for the price of one because those three feats suck ass.
    Cleric, Druid, Fighter, Paladin, Ranger, Artificer...


    Yeah, the Feats are lackluster and you can get around taking most of the progression with a 1-level dip in about six different classes.

    However, the Feats are there for those who don't want to multiclass to get Armor proficiencies they lack. And, honestly, I feel they are balanced in that regard. Armor is a pretty significant boost to the game, and having it is part of what makes the martial classes like Fighter and Paladin appealing. Taking that from them by allowing non-martials to jump the progression cheapens the classes further than what the Linear Fighters/Quadratic Wizards effect already does. Allowing a jump from no armor to heavy armor (even before weapon proficiencies are brought into the equation) is ridiculously overpowered, especially for arcane casters like the Wizard. And you're talking about making it the equivalent of a half feat.

    Taking the Feat route, each armor proficiency comes with a +1 to a stat (STR or DEX, except Heavy which is STR only), thus making each armor proficiency worth +1 according to game balance and you have to have the lower to get the higher.

    So, your overpowered Feat is already potentially equivalent to +4 before adding in weapon proficiencies. Personally, I'm willing to equate Simple and Martial weapon categories to a +1 each, so that's a potential +6 equivalency. And then there's shields. Given that at their weakest they grant +2 to AC but costing your off-hand, I'd go so far as to call them another +1 equivalent. So that's a possible +7 equivalent power-up from your one Feat there and yet you're trying to claim that it's equal to a +2.

    When making Feats like this, you can't just take into account what some classes (like the Cleric) have before calling it balanced, you also have to take into account what other classes don't have (such as the Wizard) and consider why they don't have it.

    I'm all for making Weapon Master more powerful (because, seriously, four specific weapons? That's it?), but I cannot agree with bundling up all the weapon and armor proficiencies into one package like that. You want to take a 1-level dip to get most of these proficiencies, then do that, but I'm not about to stick most of the benefits of a 1-level multiclass into a Feat, because that's just not balanced at all.

    Imagine if I made a Feat that allowed a character to treat their spellcasting progression (and existing spell slots) as if they had +1 full caster level? Without actually having to take the level? Why, at 16th level, your Wizard could be casting with the spell slots of a 20th level Wizard. It's ludicrous.


    Edit: Also what JNAProductions said above.
    Last edited by Crisis21; 2019-04-21 at 08:17 PM.
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  9. - Top - End - #9
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    Default Re: Weapon Master Reworks

    Quote Originally Posted by Crisis21 View Post
    Imagine if I made a Feat that allowed a character to treat their spellcasting progression (and existing spell slots) as if they had +1 full caster level? Without actually having to take the level? Why, at 16th level, your Wizard could be casting with the spell slots of a 20th level Wizard. It's ludicrous.
    Actually that sounds pretty cool and I might put it to the table for addition.

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    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Weapon Master Reworks

    In the vein of discussing armor feats - What's the right place for a feat that offers an ability score increase?

    I can see why most of the armor feats are half feats- they're built to help the user get the most benefit from their armor, whether it be heavy armor and medium armor, which focus on building STR or DEX, respectively. Come to think of it, most of the half feats - Resilient, Tavern Brawler, Observant - are all feats that deal directly with ability influenced(?) rolls and Weapon Master also does so. I think most versions of the Weapon Master feat (and it appears you all agree) should have a partial ABI.

    I personally like Fnissalot's idea of re-rolling 1's on damage. It's not as powerful as the GWF style, which allows re-rolls on 1's and 2's, but I also like the idea of '1' immunity for attacks for your given weapon-- masters don't mess up, as compared to a general fighter. It's quite useful, especially when you consider Green-Flame Blade, you can expend a lot of your uses to ensure you hit and hit hard.

    Did you intend to extend that benefit to all of the character's weapon attacks, or just attacks with the selected weapons?

    I also like Crisis21's approach- you just get proficiency scaling with what you already have. With the exception of the Wizard, I think most classes (I'll need to check) can grab a direct upgrade into martial weaponry without much pause. I like the general feel, and it can be for a Vuman fighter to grab this for the free feat for lots of flavor options straight from the box.

    Exotic weapons would include firearms and double weapons, or could be a weapon that the player imagines. The first thing that comes to mind is the Brute Shot from Halo, or a kusurigama (I hope I spelt that right) although it might be a bit rules heavy to give the player options, but a conspiring DM and player can come up with some shenanigans.

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    Default Re: Weapon Master Reworks

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironheart View Post
    I personally like Fnissalot's idea of re-rolling 1's on damage. It's not as powerful as the GWF style, which allows re-rolls on 1's and 2's, but I also like the idea of '1' immunity for attacks for your given weapon-- masters don't mess up, as compared to a general fighter. It's quite useful, especially when you consider Green-Flame Blade, you can expend a lot of your uses to ensure you hit and hit hard.

    Did you intend to extend that benefit to all of the character's weapon attacks, or just attacks with the selected weapons?

    I also like Crisis21's approach- you just get proficiency scaling with what you already have. With the exception of the Wizard, I think most classes (I'll need to check) can grab a direct upgrade into martial weaponry without much pause. I like the general feel, and it can be for a Vuman fighter to grab this for the free feat for lots of flavor options straight from the box.
    My intent was for it to only apply to the selected weapons, but it is not clear as it is currently written.

    I think we need to decide on why we try to change it. Do we want to give better weapon proficiency feats or do we want a feat that makes you feel like a weapon master. Because those are 2 completely different things.

    I agree with that masters don't mess up. To me it should feel opposite of savage attacker. A weapon master is an expert, not necessarily a brute. The ways I could see that being done is either to make them more consistent, or that they make up for it in someway. For example, you could get +1 to ac if you have missed an attack during your turn, missed weapon attacks still deal some damage(but still count as misses for riders etc.), give them expertise (might start generating to high attack modifiers for the balance of the game; bounded accuracy and all that) or give extra attack options in some ways.

    if you want Crisis21's weapon proficiency feat to be consistent with the armored feat, you would have probably have them something like this so that you could take it multiple times if you would like.

    Simple Armaments
    You have practiced in the use of simple straightforward weapons. You gain the following benefits.
    +1 STR or DEX
    You gain proficiency in all Simple Weapons.

    Martial Armaments
    Prerequisite: Proficiency with Simple Weapons
    You have practiced in the use of weapons that require skill and proper training to wield. You gain the following benefits.
    +1 STR or DEX
    You gain proficiency in all Martial Weapons.

    Exotic Armaments
    Prerequisite: Proficiency with Martial Weapons
    You have practiced in the use of exotic and strange weapons. You gain the following benefits.
    +1 STR or DEX
    You gain proficiency in all Exotic Weapons.

    Also, I just realized that proficiency with shields is not required for the shield master feat...

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    Default Re: Weapon Master Reworks

    Quote Originally Posted by Fnissalot View Post
    if you want Crisis21's weapon proficiency feat to be consistent with the armored feat, you would have probably have them something like this so that you could take it multiple times if you would like.

    Simple Armaments
    You have practiced in the use of simple straightforward weapons. You gain the following benefits.
    +1 STR or DEX
    You gain proficiency in all Simple Weapons.

    Martial Armaments
    Prerequisite: Proficiency with Simple Weapons
    You have practiced in the use of weapons that require skill and proper training to wield. You gain the following benefits.
    +1 STR or DEX
    You gain proficiency in all Martial Weapons.

    Exotic Armaments
    Prerequisite: Proficiency with Martial Weapons
    You have practiced in the use of exotic and strange weapons. You gain the following benefits.
    +1 STR or DEX
    You gain proficiency in all Exotic Weapons.

    Also, I just realized that proficiency with shields is not required for the shield master feat...
    This looks cleaner than what I posted and more in line with how the Armor feats are written. Kudos.

    And Shield Master doesn't require shield proficiency...? What? Someone overlooked that badly at WotC...
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    Default Re: Weapon Master Reworks

    I like the 'If you have advantage and both rolls would hit then X happens' concept, perhaps have one effect for each of Bludgeoning, Piercing and Slashing weapons.
    Roll for it
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    Default Re: Weapon Master Reworks

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironheart View Post
    I also like Crisis21's approach- you just get proficiency scaling with what you already have. With the exception of the Wizard, I think most classes (I'll need to check) can grab a direct upgrade into martial weaponry without much pause. I like the general feel, and it can be for a Vuman fighter to grab this for the free feat for lots of flavor options straight from the box.
    Just checked: Druid, Sorcerer, and Wizard are the only classes that don't have straight Simple Weapon proficiency.

    What's interesting is that the three classes that don't have Light Armor proficiency are Monk (who admittedly doesn't need it), Sorcerer, and Wizard.
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    Default Re: Weapon Master Reworks

    Here's the way I fixed Weapon Master. I dropped it's half-feat-ness(As I do with all of the feats I unruin. On the rare occasion people in my group want a half-feat, I just take off one or two of the things the feat gives and let it be a half-feat. Resilient is an exception, but whatever, nobody cares.)

    With Weapon Master, a player at my table gets;
    - Proficiency with all Simple and Martial weapons
    - When you make a Melee Weapon Attack with advantage/disadvantage, if the lower/higher die would hit, you do one of the following;
    • Inflict additional damage equal to half your level, or your proficiency modifier, whichever would be higher.
    • Push them 10 feet away from you.
    • Force them to make a strength saving throw(DC= 8+the Weapon's Attack Bonus), falling Prone on a failure.


    Martials want it so they can do things other than just straight damage, Casters want it so they can mix it up a bit in melee, and Gish-types want it for very obvious reasons. Moon Druids also tend to like it, since it's just "Melee Weapon Attack," rather than an attack with a proper Weapon.

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    Default Re: Weapon Master Reworks

    I'm working on my own revision. I'm thinking about going

    You gain proficiency with all simple and martial weapons. In addition, whenever you make an attack with advantage where both rolls would result in a hit, you can choose to apply an additional effect to your attack, based on the type of weapon you’re wielding.
    I've yet to come up with the effects, and how I should group them.
    I'll also be using this to replace the other weapon feats, so I'll most likely look to them for inspiration.

    There was a thread in the homebrew forum, where someone redid all the weapon feats, but I can't seem to find it anymore :/

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    Default Re: Weapon Master Reworks

    I just give access to a fighting style. Archery is only stronger than the others if you don't use the partial cover rules (allies and enemies both count as partial cover for other creatures, +2 AC). I do include protection and even defense, even if defense isn't worth a feat.

    If you already gain fighting style as a class feature, you gain this additional style plus you can switch the choice you made via your class feature during a short or long rest.

    ***

    I don't give proficiency with a weapon with this feat, it's not about learning a new weapon, but mastering one you already know.

    I do allow the skilled feat to trade a skill for a group of weapons by the following line. If you are prof with a specific group, you can use ine skill choice to gain all simple weapons. If you're prof with all simple weapons, you can gain all martial weapons.

    Specific group -> Simple weapons -> Martial weapons

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    Default Re: Weapon Master Reworks

    For what it's worth, Weapon Master is already pretty good in full casters either as a Vuman feat (it's also a half feat so it can save you 2 points in point buy), or as a level 4 feat for races with +2 STR or DEX who want to be able to attack for better than cantrip damage. Are these characters generally optimized? No, but the Weapon Master feat itself is pretty optimal on them. And some of them really are quite optimized, so, I would say the Weapon Master feat is already in an "Okay" spot, contrary to a lot of lists which list it as totally worthless.

    But, I agree that it's pretty lame that there's literally no reason to take it if you have any levels in Barbarian, Fighter, Paladin, or Ranger. "Weapon Master" sounds like something that should appeal to martials, doesn't it?

    Anyway, a lot of the concepts suggested in this thread boil down to 'deal more damage' or something close to it which sort of bores me. I saw an idea elsewhere that I thought was neat; instead of simply being a master of attacking with weapons, you are a master of handling weapons, adding the line: "You can draw and stow as many weapons on your turn as you like (no action required from you)."

    This lets you attack with all sorts of weapons on a single turn, and becomes more exciting the more attacks you have. You can easily throw 4 javelins per turn if you want. Does this sort of step on Dual Wielder's toes? Yes, but Dual Wielder is in more dire need of assistance than is Weapon Master, in my opinion

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    Default Re: Weapon Master Reworks

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironheart View Post
    I want to make Weapon Master into a feat that everyone wants to take, martial and otherwise, when you really want to get good at weapon attacks.
    I read and re-read your post multiple times until I finally found the problem. This was it.

    The problem is, you seem to be trying to make a Feat that both gives more proficiencies, and also, adds an additional benefit for a single weapon. It boils down to "what does the Fighter get?"

    A Fighter gets nothing out of the original form of Weapon Master. They would just take the stats, as they already have all the weapons they'll need.

    A Fighter who wants to specialize in longsword and shield would not need to be bribed by offering the Dueling Fighting Style. They probably already have it.

    I honestly think you'll have better luck making
    A) a Weapon Master that adds more proficiencies, and
    B) a separate Weapon Specialization Feat for being really good at one.

    For B) I have to say, the idea of adding half your prof to damage sounds "slippery slope" to me, which is a shame, because it's really not all that much by itself. I'm probably just being paranoid. I would probably be tempted instead to say "reroll weapon damage dice that are half your prof bonus or less" which does not ramp up max damage at all. But this weaker bonus would let me feel better about adding the extra attunement for that magic weapon.

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    BlueKnightGuy

    Join Date
    Apr 2019

    Default Re: Weapon Master Reworks

    Zigludo:

    I feel that a simple alteration of Dual Wielder to simply say that instead of an additional weapon drawn or stowed into drawing or stowing any number would accomplish the same shenanigans concept proposed while keeping that same hard cap for non-Fighter classes. It also solves a few problems for the (apparently, I haven’t tried it myself) very fun dagger hurling fighter from 3E that struggled to be realized in 5E.

    Regardless, a part of what I’ve been trying to address is what benefits can be reasonably offered to players in exchange for a full ability score increase. A partial ABI seems good for many of the reasons that you’ve stated but my main worry is to offer the partial ABI and something strong enough to stand on it’s own.

    Breccia:

    I agree on all of your points, and especially like your proposed solution. Fnissalot also pointed out this divide that a lot of these feats seem to want to cross, and I think that adding more re-roll opportunities might be enough for Fighters that want to influence their damage, and become more relevant than a flat damage boost for each attack, especially for those with heavier weapons.

    I also had a fifth idea, aiming for more minor benefits to justify just adding more to the original feat.

    Spoiler: Idea #5: Advantage Shenanigans
    Show


    The feat is as normal, only it also reads:
    If a weapon attack your character makes has advantage and disadvantage, your character rolls with advantage instead of rolling a single die.

    Pro’s
    + Simple to remember- instead of straight rolls, just always roll with advantage, and locks down some otherwise sound tactics - no one can ‘dodge’ your attacks if you have some form of advantage.

    + Scales as players get to roll more dice with Extra Attack. The benefit will likely apply to either one important attack or the whole round.

    + Usage is niché enough that you can definitely give a partial ability score increase as well, and even if it applies to all weapon attacks it shouldn’t come into play always.

    + And the most important one to me- it gives the table reasons to work together, even with harder situations like invisible opponents.

    Cons:

    - It is quite a niche pick- after all, there’s not that many situations that it applies. And it flat out doesn’t negate disadvantage, it only provides a conditional out from it.

    - Advantage is a strange creature, which can be awarded accordingly by the DM, which directly affects the effectiveness of this ability. There are ways to call upon it reliably (Mastermind Rogues, Samurai’s and Inspiration being the first few that come to mind) which can lead to placing perhaps a little too much value in a single attack action. YMMV?

    A further buff to the feat could the other side of this as well; that is,

    If your character is targeted by an attack roll that has both advantage and disadvantage, the attacker rolls with disadvantage instead of rolling a single die.

    A attacking creature having this feat negates this effect.
    Last edited by Ironheart; 2019-05-08 at 03:48 AM.

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Greywander's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2017

    Default Re: Weapon Master Reworks

    Skimmed the thread. I just wanted to add that my solution to this problem also involved incorporating fighting styles. Here's my version:

    Fighting Style
    Your Strength or Dexterity increases by 1.
    You learn one fighting style of your choice.
    If you chose the Protection fighting style, you also gain proficiency with shields.
    If you chose the Defense fighting style, you also gain proficiency in light and medium armor.
    If you chose any other fighting style, you gain proficiency in any two weapons of your choice.
    You may take this feat more than once.

    Not only does this act as a suitable replacement for Weapon Master, but also for Lightly/Moderately Armored. Not completely, though, as light armor classes can still take Moderately Armored to also get shields. Generally, though, if you're taking a feat to get armor proficiencies, you either already have light armor or have a spell (Mage Armor) or class feature (Unarmored Defense) that's just as good as light armor.

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    Iceland
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Weapon Master Reworks

    Thank yo Graywander, I'm stealing that one ^^

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