Theory: A New Clan

[kiapet]

So here's an idea that popped into my head while I was rereading recent comics.

We know that:

1. The old woman who was brainwashed in comic #1155 was voting in the council because of her place as the "matriarch of a major clan."
2. Gontor had just brainwashed the last person required to get a simple majority when our heroes interrupted him (comic #1158, sorry don't know how to link to it).

With this in mind, I envision the scene going down something like this: Durkon's family bursts into the council chamber, but they are too late. The dwarves are already in the process of voting, and in accordance with their established characterization, dismiss/delay the concerns Durkon and the others raise and go forward with the vote. This leads to a narrow victory on the part of the vampires, until someone (probably Durkon) says, "Wait! There is a clan matriarch present who has yet to cast her vote!"

...and turns to Sigdi.

We know that Durkon's mother, aunts and uncles consider themselves to be a true family and refer to themselves as such (We got yer message. We brought the whole family). They are relatively small and new to be considered a "major clan", but we know that Sigdi is well-respected among the community, Shirra is a wealthy mine-owner, Logann is a Captain, Squeaky is an established bard with apprentices, whatever the niece's fiance is, ect. so they do have a decent amount of social influence. Their claim could at least be good enough to distract the council and buy Durkon time, if not tie the vote outright. And the official recognition of a new clan during the climax would be a lovely finish for the found family memory plotline that has been so central to Durkon's arc.

[Fyraltari]

That’s my opinion as well.
To link to a comic, or any page on the internet, use the url button above the text space or type url={insert url here} inside [] brackets then your text then [/url].

[JohanOfKitten]

It would nicely mirror the tie that Hell brought at the godsmoot.

But what I'm afraid of is that the recognition of the founding of a new clan is a thing that I see being voted by the current council. If so, the vampire only has to tell the domanited elders to decline the claim and therefore avoid the tie. (Though, it would give Durkon some time to deal with the issue)

[Wizard_Lizard]

And then another tiebreaker

[hroþila]

Depending on how exactly this is done on-panel, it could work very well or be very dumb.

[Mad Humanist]

Depending on how exactly this is done on-panel, it could work very well or be very dumb.

It's been a thought in my head for some time. Given the track record of this comic, I would say if it does happen it will be awesome. Perhaps new clans are not decided by vote but by Dvalin himself. And since the decision does not affect all the clans, Dvalin gets to decide it himself without referring it to the council of clans.

[Fyraltari]

Ooh. I like that one.

[Bad Wolf]

It's been a thought in my head for some time. Given the track record of this comic, I would say if it does happen it will be awesome. Perhaps new clans are not decided by vote but by Dvalin himself. And since the decision does not affect all the clans, Dvalin gets to decide it himself without referring it to the council of clans.

It'd be kinda weird if you had to talk to a god to get your family recognized.

[The MunchKING]

It'd be kinda weird if you had to talk to a god to get your family recognized.

They're clerics (OK, Durkon is), talking to Gods is literally their job-description.

[Peelee]

It's been a thought in my head for some time. Given the track record of this comic, I would say if it does happen it will be awesome. Perhaps new clans are not decided by vote but by Dvalin himself. And since the decision does not affect all the clans, Dvalin gets to decide it himself without referring it to the council of clans.

If you follow that to its logical conclusion, then Dvalin could stack the deck by adding enough new clans that would go the way he wants to outnumber all other clans regardless. Whether or not he would, he certainly could, which is reason enough to think he can't do that unilaterally whenever he wants.

[Fyraltari]

It'd be kinda weird if you had to talk to a god to get your family recognized.

He may have sufficient authority to do so but not be necessary. As in, the law may require the agreement of the king, and while he is dead and the crown presumably went to somebody else, he is still technically king.

If you follow that to its logical conclusion, then Dvalin could stack the deck by adding enough new clans that would go the way he wants to outnumber all other clans regardless. Whether or not he would, he certainly could, which is reason enough to think he can't do that unilaterally whenever he wants.

That’s as easy a fix as ‘‘the applicants must be descended from (or married to persons descended from) at least as many as X still living and unrelated persons who have no other living blood relatives’’.

[Quebbster]

And then another tiebreaker

Not necessarily. In case of a tie Dvalin may decide to vote as he sees fit.

[RatElemental]

If you follow that to its logical conclusion, then Dvalin could stack the deck by adding enough new clans that would go the way he wants to outnumber all other clans regardless. Whether or not he would, he certainly could, which is reason enough to think he can't do that unilaterally whenever he wants.

The more clans he adds the harder it gets to assemble them all for a vote and the greater the chance enough of them turn on him to overrule what he stacked the deck to accomplish in the first place.

However, I think it's likely that there's some criteria you need to even qualify to apply for your clan to be recognized to prevent just such a scenario, which Sigdi and her fellows might fulfill.

[Quebbster]

It would be pretty awesome if Clan Firehelm used to be on the council but left their seat vacant now.

[Bad Wolf]

It would be pretty awesome if Clan Firehelm used to be on the council but left their seat vacant now.

Oh, I like thus one.

[hroþila]

It would be pretty awesome if Clan Firehelm used to be on the council but left their seat vacant now.

I will stick to my theory that the Firehelms are new money and thus not part of this clan council. At least until the comic violently forces me to give it up.

[denthor]

My 10 gold is Hilga is the vote for saving the day. She holds the vote for her clan. Unintended consequences the chaotic person ends up being the leader of a lawful Society. Bonus she gets a second vote for thundershield clan by virtue of being the mother of Durkins child.

[Rogar Demonblud]

These are the oldest of clans, the ones who were a power back when Dvalin was actually king. They won't be adding any Stoney-come-lately parvenus. And Hilgya is not the head of the Firehelms in any case. Her eldest brother is.

[dtilque]

Just want to note that I had the OP's idea back in May during the discussion for strip 1165. I don't know if that was the first posting of it in the forum, but it wouldn't surprise me if someone else came up with it first.

Anyway, here's what I wrote then:

As far as what they'll do inside there, here's my theory:

They won't be able to change the votes of the dominated Councilors. But each of the Councilors is head of a Dwarven Clan. So they'll create a new Clan on the spot, with all of Durkon's extended family plus the Thor clerics as members, headed by Sigdi. She'll vote No, of course. Since the dominated ones are a bare majority, that'll result in the vote being tied. Then the tie-braking rules are consulted, at which point I run out of guesses as to what happens.

In other words, a repeat (of sorts) of the Godsmoot.

ETA: An different thought about what might happen in the Council Chamber: Durkon casts a Summon Proxy for Thor. Now what Thor could do in the proxy form, I'm not sure. Perhaps he could somehow give the dominated councilors a new saving throw against domination. There's enough of them that one or more should surely throw off the effect.

[Fyraltari]

Thor told him he was on his own for this one back in the graveyard. Well apart from giving him awesome magic powers this morning.

[dtilque]

Thor told him he was on his own for this one back in the graveyard. Well apart from giving him awesome magic powers this morning.

And one of those magic powers is to ... cast Summon Proxy. I'm not saying Thor is going to use his magic to give them another saving throw. Rather it would be something Thor says. Yes, Durkon could say the same thing, and maybe that would work. But if that fails, having a god say it would lend it more gravitas, giving them a circumstance bonus for the saving throws.

[Fyraltari]

And one of those magic powers is to ... cast Summon Proxy. I'm not saying Thor is going to use his magic to give them another saving throw. Rather it would be something Thor says. Yes, Durkon could say the same thing, and maybe that would work. But if that fails, having a god say it would lend it more gravitas, giving them a circumstance bonus for the saving throws.

Thor solving Durkon’s problem by talking is no different than Thor solving Durkon’s problem with magic.
Also Summon Proxy allows the Gods to talk to each other not interact with mortals.
Also also you can’t give thralls new saving throws by talking to them.

[Mad Humanist]

I don't think Durkon (as opposed to High Priestess Rubyrock or the ex-vampire formerly known as the High Priest of Hel) has the Summon Proxy spell. Access to it is granted on a need to have basis. And that need is dictated by High Priest status and the icky-sticky rules the gods more or less abide by.

[Quebbster]

Just want to note that I had the OP's idea back in May during the discussion for strip 1165. I don't know if that was the first posting of it in the forum, but it wouldn't surprise me if someone else came up with it first.

Anyway, here's what I wrote then:



ETA: An different thought about what might happen in the Council Chamber: Durkon casts a Summon Proxy for Thor. Now what Thor could do in the proxy form, I'm not sure. Perhaps he could somehow give the dominated councilors a new saving throw against domination. There's enough of them that one or more should surely throw off the effect.

There's no such thing as "a new idea" in this forum. Something just feel their ideas warrant their own thread, and sometimes they are right.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Thor told him he was on his own for this one back in the graveyard. Well apart from giving him awesome magic powers this morning.

What worries me is how many people don't realize that Thor was being sarcastic there. He's been giving Durkon and every other cleric a large slice of help every day since they were ordained and they just take it for granted.

[Dion]

Durkon’s grandpa recently died, and his death was important enough to show up in a comic about 800 strips ago.

My guess: Durkon’s grandpa was a clan elder.

Durkon’s grandfather is dead.
Durkon’s father is dead.
Durkon was dead when the council was called to meet.

That makes Kudzu the clan elder!

They’ll just wait until he’s old enough to vote.

[Peelee]

Durkon’s grandpa recently died, and his death was important enough to show up in a comic about 800 strips ago.

My guess: Durkon’s grandpa was a clan elder.

Durkon’s grandfather is dead.
Durkon’s father is dead.
Durkon was dead when the council was called to meet.

That makes Kudzu the clan elder!

They’ll just wait until he’s old enough to vote.

I'm confused why you seem to think only males can be elders when we've explicitly seen female elders. Have you theorized that Sigdi is going to die elsewhere and I haven't seen it?

[Dion]

I'm confused why you seem to think only males can be elders when we've explicitly seen female elders. Have you theorized that Sigdi is going to die elsewhere and I haven't seen it?

I assume Durkon’s grandfather was Tenrin’s dad, not Sigdi’s.

Edit: hmm... I honestly don’t know if ThunderShield was Sigdi’s maiden name, or her married name. Heck, I don’t even think there’s any reason to assume dwarven clan names are patrilineal.

[Peelee]

I assume Durkon’s grandfather was Tenrin’s dad, not Sigdi’s.

Edit: hmm... I honestly don’t know if ThunderShield was Sigdi’s maiden name, or her married name. Heck, I don’t even think there’s any reason to assume dwarven clan names are patrilineal.

And now I'm embarrassed because I didn't even think of that. I just assumed that Sigdi was always a Thundershield to begin with.

[hroþila]

I assume Durkon’s grandfather was Tenrin’s dad, not Sigdi’s.

Edit: hmm... I honestly don’t know if ThunderShield was Sigdi’s maiden name, or her married name. Heck, I don’t even think there’s any reason to assume dwarven clan names are patrilineal.

I think Durkon's talk about being buried in his "ancestral tomb" with his family, namely his pappy, granpappy, great-granpappy, etc. strongly suggests dwarven clans are patrilineal. That said, this might vary from one family to the next.