OOTS #1162 - The Discussion Thread

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Then in saying genocide is not a big deal I'm not arguing for genocide either!

You can't have it both ways. You can't cover up for a guy arguing that Hilgya was only forced to sit through a ceremony when defending what they did to her and then turn around and claim that saying genocide is not a big deal is not a defense of genocide!

I can, because Keltest qualified an individual scenario without defending it, while you constantly defend your genocidal solutions to every problem.

Grey Wolf

[The_Weirdo]

I can, because Keltest qualified an individual scenario without defending it, while you constantly defend your genocidal solutions to every problem.

Grey Wolf

Keltest's assertion that forced marriage may be acceptable in some scenarios and that it's not a big deal in that particular one is way further beyond the pale than anything I ever said.

[woweedd]

Keltest's assertion that forced marriage may be acceptable in some scenarios and that it's not a big deal in that particular one is way further beyond the pale than anything I ever said.

Let's make this clear: You believe forced marriage is worse then mass murder? Genuinely?

[Keltest]

Keltest's assertion that forced marriage may be acceptable in some scenarios and that it's not a big deal in that particular one is way further beyond the pale than anything I ever said.

Given your demonstrated unwillingness to understand or respond to words that have actually been said, im not sure what point you think youre making here. Much like Hilgya, your claims of what others have or have not done simply have no value.

[Resileaf]

Let's make this clear: You believe forced marriage is worse then mass murder? Genuinely?

No, he doesn't, he's trying to derail everything because he's mad at people.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Keltest's assertion that forced marriage may be acceptable in some scenarios

There you go again, putting words in people's mouths.

that it's not a big deal in that particular one

And again.

Do I take it, then, that you admit that Keltest did not in fact argue in favour of forced marriages?

is way further beyond the pale than anything I ever said.

You routinely call for genocide. Your self-serving assertion is thus found baseless.

Grey Wolf

[The_Weirdo]

Let's make this clear: You believe forced marriage is worse then mass murder? Genuinely?

Why wouldn't I? There are people that believe it can conceivably be reasonable, or the victim's fault, or that it's not a big deal if the victim manages to escape...

You routinely call for genocide.

It could be worse, I could be relativizing forced marriage.

[woweedd]

No, he doesn't, he's trying to derail everything because he's mad at people.

I'm still not sure why he can't just leave. You wanna know how many arranged marriage-related arguments i've seen start without his involvement? NONE.

[The Aboleth]

Forced marriage is worse than genocide anyways.

This is blatantly offensive. You're either trolling or deranged, or perhaps even both.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Why wouldn't I? There are people that believe it can conceivably be reasonable, or the victim's fault, or that it's not a big deal if the victim manages to escape...

There are also people who think genocide can conceivably be reasonable, or the victim's fault, or that it's not a big deal if the victim at one point was forced to marry into the group.

Namely, you think that.

Grey Wolf

[The_Weirdo]

This is blatantly offensive. You're either trolling or deranged, or perhaps even both.

Well, forced marriage is, as we all know, the ultimate and absolute form of evil.

There are also people who think genocide can conceivably be reasonable, or the victim's fault, or that it's not a big deal if the victim at one point was forced to marry into the group.

Namely, you think that.

Grey Wolf

Sure, but at least it's not forced marriage.

[woweedd]

Why wouldn't I? There are people that believe it can conceivably be reasonable, or the victim's fault, or that it's not a big deal if the victim manages to escape...

That...That's not actually a good reason to believe that, though.

This is blatantly offensive. You're either trolling or deranged, or perhaps even both.

He's running on pure spite at this point. Apparently, The Weirdo is not a believer in de-escalation.

[The_Weirdo]

Apparently, The Weirdo is not a believer in de-escalation.

Both on a personal and on a public level, I've seen it tried and failed quite often.

[woweedd]

Well, forced marriage is, as we all know, the ultimate and absolute form of evil.



Sure, but at least it's not forced marriage.

You know, if you're not gonna take this argument seriously, why should anyone?

Both on a personal and on a public level, I've seen it tried and failed quite often.

...I'm morbidly curious on the backstory to that comment, if only so I can understand the Escher painting that is your mind.

[The_Weirdo]

You know, if you're not gonna take this argument seriously, why should anyone?

Serious. Not serious. I'm the guy that isn't having to argue against forced marriage now.

...I'm morbidly curious on the backstory to that comment, if only so I can understand the Escher painting that is your mind.

Politics is banned in the forum, but it turns out that, when you remain sane and the other side gets more and more insane, the other side often wins.

[woweedd]

Serious. Not serious. I'm the guy that isn't having to argue against forced marriage now.

A goal you could, as I stated, also accomplish by NOT POSTING.

[Keltest]

Serious. Not serious. I'm the guy that isn't having to argue against forced marriage now.

As others have pointed out, the argument only ever comes up when you bring it up. If you find yourself regularly arguing about it, perhaps you should consider your own role in doing so.

To say nothing of the fact that you demonstrably are continuing to argue about it, given the number of times on this page alone you've said it was wrong.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I'm the guy that isn't having to argue against forced marriage now.

No, you are the guy falsely claiming others are defending forced marriage (which no-one has done) as a way to declare yourself morally superior. While also defending genocide.

Grey Wolf

[woweedd]

Serious. Not serious. I'm the guy that isn't having to argue against forced marriage now.



Politics is banned in the forum, but it turns out that, when you remain sane and the other side gets more and more insane, the other side often wins.

My GOD. You realize that extremist positions aren't always correct or winning ones, right?

[The Aboleth]

He's running on pure spite at this point. Apparently, The Weirdo is not a believer in de-escalation.

My Report button is getting a workout. For all The_Weirdo's talk about oppressors, he can't fathom that saying things like "Genocide is a reasonable solution!" might be oppressive to other forum members who have a sensitivity to genocidal maniacs. Funny, that.

[The_Weirdo]

My GOD. You realize that extremist positions aren't always correct or winning ones, right?

And yet, when only one side holds an extremist position, they often end up in power and the sane side has to deal with, say, having a president that openly defends dictatorships and has called for civil wars and mass shootings! And then it turns out that, maybe, just maybe, if the other side had escalated instead of just going "Oh you crazy, but let's not call for your physical elimination", the depraved lunatic in question might not be in power!

You know. Hypothetically. In, say, Artemis Fowl or something.

[Ruck]

I'll make things easier: think of me as the lawyer for a rape victim that, in a scenario with no rape shield laws, when the opposition begins to question what she was wearing, begins, in turn, to argue that the family of the defendant should be executed.

That would reflect poorly on you as either a lawyer or a victim's advocate. But just to be clear: You are not that. You are a poster online arguing over a work of fiction.

If you want to fight oppression, go fight actual oppression, but stop kidding yourself that posting on a web comic forum is the same thing.

Oh, Kel might think I'm an *******, but he'll learn the valuable lesson that arguing in favor of forced marriage will always yield having to argue against genocide too.

All he's actually learned is that discussing this or any other topic with you is a waste of time.

Well, a derailed argument is one in which I don't have to keep arguing against forced marriage. Forced marriage is worse than genocide anyways.

You don't HAVE to do anything. You CHOOSE to do these things. Stop trying to offload YOUR choices as the responsibility of others.

Birmingham, AL - the AL is Alabama.

Not Birmingham, UK.

I think I saw in US News' rankings of cities that Birmingham was a top destination to live. It surprised me, but I'm guessing it's a combination of cheap cost of living plus space jobs.

[woweedd]

And yet, when only one side holds an extremist position, they often end up in power and the sane side has to deal with, say, having a president that openly defends dictatorships and has called for civil wars and mass shootings! And then it turns out that, maybe, just maybe, if the other side had escalated instead of just going "Oh you crazy, but let's not call for your physical elimination", the depraved lunatic in question might not be in power!

You know. Hypothetically. In, say, Artemis Fowl or something.

Well, is your goal to win an argument, or to fight for what you believe? And, yes, I know what you're referencing.

[Spanish_Paladin]

Whatever. The Firehelms still deserve to die horribly and spend eternity under the cares of Hel. One by one.

Including the firehelm who aren't directly or indirectly related with the forced marriage? , even the children?

You full your mouth with moral superiority, but you agree, even celebrate, the deaths and damnation of an entire clan. Either you are trolling or you are acting like an hipocrite (that is not ab aseveration of your character as whole, i don't know you, but of your actions on this topic) .

If your aim is to argue against forced marriage (a topic about noone is advocating) or to defend a fictional character (something childish and unnecessary), i tell you again, you are getting the opposite with your straw mans and mischaracterizarion of the opinions of other forumites. I like Hilgya as an anti-heroe figure but you are not helping.

[The_Weirdo]

Well, is your goal to win an argument, or to fight for what you believe? And, yes, I know what you're referencing.

My goal is not to be oppressed, first. So winning the argument or preventing the crazy side from getting to make it for fear of what the sane side might do if it does is a good tactic.

Including the firehelm who aren't directly or indirectly related with the forced marriage? , even the children?

You full your mouth with moral superiority, but you agree, even celebrate, the deaths and damnation of an entire clan. Either you are trolling or you are acting like an hipocrite (that is not ab aseveration of your character as whole, i don't know you, but of your actions on this topic) .

If your aim is to argue against forced marriage (who noone is advocating) or to defend a fictional character (something childish and unnecessary), i tell you again, you are getting the opposite with your straw mans and mischaracterizarion of the opinions of other forumites. I like Hilgya as an anti-heroe figure but you are not helping.

Pretending a forced marriage is just forcing someone to sit through a ceremony is advocating forced marriage.
Conjuring up baseless scenarios in which it is justified is advocating forced marriage.

If Keltest doesn't believe either of these things, it would be easy for him to write as follows:

"I do believe that forced marriage is always a very grave moral wrong and never justified".

[woweedd]

My goal is not to be oppressed, first. So winning the argument or preventing the crazy side from getting to make it for fear of what the sane side might do if it does is a good tactic.

Yes, but is there such a thing as an illegitimate tactic to you, or just illegitimate targets?

[zimmerwald1915]

Well, is your goal to win an argument, or to fight for what you believe? And, yes, I know what you're referencing.

Artemis Fowl is a timely, apt, and pertinent series.

[Ruck]

My goal is not to be oppressed, first.

Well, not only is no one on this forum oppressing you, I don't think anything you post on it will make a difference one way or another as to whether you are actually oppressed. So your stated goals and the tactics you evidently use to achieve them don't match at all.

[Keltest]

My goal is not to be oppressed, first. So winning the argument or preventing the crazy side from getting to make it for fear of what the sane side might do if it does is a good tactic.

Its interesting that you think that, given that every example you put forward as an analogy ended up with you being fired and/or arrested.

[woweedd]

Artemis Fowl is a timely, apt, and pertinent series.

I think he's a refferacing a certain situation in his native country which I will not get into for fear of the no-politics rule. Suffice to say, if he wants to change things there, fair enough. I'm just not sure how arguing for genocide on a webcomic forum figures into it.