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    Default Eldritch Prosthetist [Prestige Class] [PEACH]

    Inspired by a combination of the Breath of the Wild 2 trailer and the grappling arm from Sekiro, I set out to try and create a Warlock that used its EB to grapple and replicate an amputated arm as a sort of "eldritch prosthetic." Unable to locate something to that effect, I decided to make a small, five level prestige class.

    The goal of the class is not to be astoundingly powerful, but mostly thematic and entertaining. It is a "melee" combat-type class, so it lacks any spell progression and has full-BAB.

    Eldritch Prosthetist

    “Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win”
    ― Sun Tzu, The Art of War

    Driven by loss and a desire to shatter expectations, an Eldritch Prosthetist is a talented individual able to harness terrible energies within himself. Using his abilities, he seeks to not only recover from the loss of an arm, but to outperform those who had never felt loss like he had.

    Requirements
    Feats: Improved Unarmed Strike
    Eldritch Blast 3d6
    Special Requirement: Must have lost an arm.

    Hit Die
    d8

    Class Skills
    The Eldritch Prosthetist's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Arcana) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spellcraft (Int), Spot (Wis), Tumble (Dex), and Use Magic Device (Cha).

    Skill Points at Each Additional Level
    4 + Int modifier.

    Level Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Class Features
    1st +1 +0 +2 +2 Eldritch Prosthetic, Tripping Hand
    2nd +2 +0 +3 +3 Learned Resilience, Eldritch Blast 2d6, Warding Hand
    3rd +3 +1 +3 +3 Extend Prosthetic, Forceful Hand
    4th +4 +1 +4 +4 Shape Weapon, Eldritch Blast 4d6, Grasping Hand
    5th +5 +1 +4 +4 Honed Prosthetic, Explosive Hand

    Class Features
    All the following are class features of the Eldritch Prosthetist prestige class.

    Eldritch Prosthetic (Su):
    After practice and research, the Eldritch Prosthetist is able to manifest an arm using his powerful Eldritch Blast as a catalyst.The prosthetic arm can be manifested and dismissed as free actions and remain active so long as the Eldritch Prosthetist wishes and remains conscious.

    The Eldritch Prosthetic becomes increasingly powerful as he increases in level, as noted on the table below.

    Table: Eldritch Prosthetic
    Class Level Usefulness Properties Attack Bonus
    1 Able to grasp tools, and perform mundane tasks. Magic -2
    2 Able to grasp a weapon or strike a foe, but unable to support immense weight or strain. Silver -1
    3 Functions as a normal arm in all ways. Cold Iron +0
    4 Eldritchly reinforced, unable to be sundered, conferring a +4 to all STR and DEX related checks involving the arm. Admantine +1
    5 The conferred bonus to STR and DEX related checks increases to +8. Force +2

    Tripping Hand (Su):
    At 1st level, as a standard action, an Eldritch Prosthetist can use his hand to attempt to trip an opponent. Its attack bonus equals his base attack bonus + his Charisma bonus + the current usefulness bonus the hand receives according to the Eldritch Prosthetic table. The hand receives as additional +1 bonus equal to your current number of Eldritch Blast damage dice.

    Learned Resilience (Ex):
    At 2nd level, an Eldritch Prosthetist has worked so hard to power through his disabilities that he has become more resilient to physical damage than most. If an Eldritch Prosthetist's physical ability scores would be damaged or drained, reduce that damage by 2.

    Eldritch Blast (Ex):
    At 2nd level, and every two class levels there after, your eldritch blast damage increases by 2d6 points of damage per class level.

    Warding Hand (Su):
    At 2nd level, as a standard action, an Eldritch Prosthetist can interpose his prosthetic between himself and an opponent. The designated opponent must make a Strength check equal to 10 + the Eldritch Prosthetist's Charisma bonus + the current usefulness bonus the hand receives according to the Eldritch Prosthetic table in order to move past the hand. The hand receives as additional +1 bonus equal to your current number of Eldritch Blast damage dice.

    If the opponent does not win the opposed Strength check, he is instead pushed backwards five feet.

    Extend Prosthetic (Su):
    At 3rd level, an Eldritch Prosthetist is able to extend manifested arm to a length of one-half his Eldritch Blast range. To fully extend and retract the arm, a move action is required, otherwise it is a swift action to do one or the other. The extended prosthetic can be used in any capacity it would be used normally and is seemingly unaffected by the distance, acting as though it were normally attached to the Eldritch Prosthetist.

    Should the Eldritch Prosthetist grasp onto an object, or be otherwise attached via his arm he may attempt to pull the object toward him. If the object is anchored, or otherwise connected to something that weighs fifty or more pounds than the Eldritch Prosthetist, he is pulled towards the object. If it weighs fifty or less pounds than him, it is pulled towards him. If the weight discrepancy is less than fifty pounds in either direction, he must either make a strength check equal to one-half the weight differnence (rounded down) if the object is inanimate, or an opposed Strength check against a creature using his Charisma bonus +1 equal to his current number of Eldritch Blast damage dice

    Forceful Hand (Su):
    At 3rd level, as a standard action, an Eldritch Prosthetist can attempt to force an opponent backward with his arm. This attack is treated as a bullrush equal to 10 + the Eldritch Prosthetist's Charisma bonus + the current usefulness bonus the hand receives according to the Eldritch Prosthetic table that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. The hand receives as additional +1 bonus equal to your current number of Eldritch Blast damage dice.

    Shape Prosthetic (Su):
    At 4th level, for a number of rounds equal to his Charisma bonus per day, the Eldritch Prosthetist can shape his manifested arm into any weapon of his choosing. As this is not a truly held weapon, it deals damage as if it were one size category smaller than the Eldritch Prosthetist and only has a range of 5ft even if the shaped weapon has the reach ability.

    Extend Prosthetic can still be used while the weapon is shaped and the Eldritch Prosthetist must be proficient with the weapon just like a regular weapon would require.

    Grasping Hand (Su):
    At 4th level, as a standard action, an Eldritch Prosthetist can attempt to grapple an opponent with his arm. This attack is treated as a grapple equal to 10 + the Eldritch Prosthetist's Charisma bonus + the current usefulness bonus the hand receives according to the Eldritch Prosthetic table that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. The hand receives as additional +1 bonus equal to your current number of Eldritch Blast damage dice.

    Honed Prosthetic (Ex):
    At 5th level, an Eldritch Prosthetist has become a master of utilizing his prosthetic. When attacking with the Eldritch Prosthetic, he adds his Charisma bonus to both his attack and damage.

    Explosive Hand (Sp):
    At 5th level, as a full-round action, an Eldritch Prosthetist can exert himself, going all-out to take out an opponent. Once per day, the Eldritch Prosthetist can prompt his arm to explode into eldritch energies, striking his foes with a number of Eldritch Blasts equal to his charisma modifier. These Eldritch blasts can all be directed at a single opponent, or can be divided among multiple opponents. After this attack, the Eldritch Prosthetist is exhausted.
    Last edited by LoyalPaladin; 2019-06-27 at 04:19 PM.
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    Default Re: Eldritch Prosthetist [Prestige Class] [PEACH]

    The interruption of progression of invocations is quite a great loss and the only really interesting ability is the level 3 one for convenient trap handling and indirect blasting.
    I think you lose more than you gain from that prc even if you were planning to only club opponents with your hand.(and there is better prcs for doing that as a warlock)
    Last edited by noob; 2019-06-27 at 01:43 PM.

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    Default Re: Eldritch Prosthetist [Prestige Class] [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by noob View Post
    The interruption of progression of invocations is quite a great loss and the only really interesting ability is the level 3 one for convenient trap handling and indirect blasting.
    I think you lose more than you gain from that prc even if you were planning to only club opponents with your hand.(and there is better prcs for doing that as a warlock)
    I should have noted it above- but this is not really meant to be an amazing prestige class, or even that powerful. It is mostly just meant to be amusing and fun. I do have some adjustments coming in after talking to a couple other Playgrounders.

    I definitely will be leaving this without invocation progression in order to justify full-BAB.
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    Default Re: Eldritch Prosthetist [Prestige Class] [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by noob View Post
    The interruption of progression of invocations is quite a great loss and the only really interesting ability is the level 3 one for convenient trap handling and indirect blasting.
    I think you lose more than you gain from that prc even if you were planning to only club opponents with your hand.(and there is better prcs for doing that as a warlock)
    I agree in part. Losing invocations is a loss, it's true. See Enlightened Spirit, which loses invocations almost entirely; despite having a bunch of other abilities, it's generally agreed to be a no-go class unless you're gestalting.

    Conversely, if you do progress invocations, a class like this becomes almost a strict upgrade. See Hellfire Warlock, which offers EB and invocation progression and is therefore basically a must-have.

    I think therefore what you want is either (1) something in between, offering diminished invocation progression but not necessarily gone altogether; (2) something unique, an ability or abilities worth losing invocations over, or (3) a combination of the two.

    I think you could get there with this. By progressing the Eldritch Prosthetic in new ways, it could do some very clever things. For instance, if you turn it into an at-will version of the various Hand spells, or replicate Telekinesis but with a grapple, or any number of other things, you could fill some fairly unique build concepts with this. Take it beyond simply the grappling claw from Sekiro - take it in all sorts of cool directions, like Seras' shadow arm from Hellsing. By making it into a unique ability that grows with the class, instead of just "and now you have an arm again, but magic," you can justify - or try to justify - the loss of invocations.
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    Default Re: Eldritch Prosthetist [Prestige Class] [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel View Post
    I agree in part. Losing invocations is a loss, it's true. See Enlightened Spirit, which loses invocations almost entirely; despite having a bunch of other abilities, it's generally agreed to be a no-go class unless you're gestalting.
    I have never seen this class, but now I really want to play a Warlock/Eldritch Prosthetist/Hellfire Warlock/Enlightened Spirit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel View Post
    Conversely, if you do progress invocations, a class like this becomes almost a strict upgrade. See Hellfire Warlock, which offers EB and invocation progression and is therefore basically a must-have.
    Speaking of HW, I updated my level progression to give one less EB die at a friend's suggestion. Thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel View Post
    I think you could get there with this. By progressing the Eldritch Prosthetic in new ways, it could do some very clever things. For instance, if you turn it into an at-will version of the various Hand spells, or replicate Telekinesis but with a grapple, or any number of other things, you could fill some fairly unique build concepts with this. Take it beyond simply the grappling claw from Sekiro - take it in all sorts of cool directions, like Seras' shadow arm from Hellsing. By making it into a unique ability that grows with the class, instead of just "and now you have an arm again, but magic," you can justify - or try to justify - the loss of invocations.
    I have aspirations of shaping a Ritiik and hitting people with my reach arm in order to drag them back to me, or drag me to them. I might add a section on that.
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    Default Re: Eldritch Prosthetist [Prestige Class] [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by LoyalPaladin View Post
    I have never seen this class, but now I really want to play a Warlock/Eldritch Prosthetist/Hellfire Warlock/Enlightened Spirit.
    This is an objectively terrible idea.

    Unless you're gestalting. Then it's kind of awesome.

    Quote Originally Posted by LoyalPaladin View Post
    Speaking of HW, I updated my level progression to give one less EB die at a friend's suggestion. Thoughts?
    Congratulations. Your class is now even worse than Enlightened Spirit. If your goal was to kill fun by killing function, mission accomplished!

    Look. Warlock increases EB by 2d6 every 4 levels. That's an average of 1d6 every 2 levels, but you're still waiting 4 levels for the benefit. Enlightened Spirit cuts the wait time - it grants +1d6 every 2 levels - plus a bunch of features, and it's still considered bad. You've gone to that same progression, +1d6 every two levels, but with no class features other than a janky arm.

    Losing your invocations and receiving no EB upgrade? That arm had better be worth it.

    Quote Originally Posted by LoyalPaladin View Post
    I have aspirations of shaping a Ritiik and hitting people with my reach arm in order to drag them back to me, or drag me to them. I might add a section on that.
    See, now you're on the right path.
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    Default Re: Eldritch Prosthetist [Prestige Class] [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel View Post
    This is an objectively terrible idea.

    Unless you're gestalting. Then it's kind of awesome.
    Yeah... but it sounds fun!

    My tables never alllow gestalt.

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel View Post
    Congratulations. Your class is now even worse than Enlightened Spirit. If your goal was to kill fun by killing function, mission accomplished!

    Look. Warlock increases EB by 2d6 every 4 levels. That's an average of 1d6 every 2 levels, but you're still waiting 4 levels for the benefit. Enlightened Spirit cuts the wait time - it grants +1d6 every 2 levels - plus a bunch of features, and it's still considered bad. You've gone to that same progression, +1d6 every two levels, but with no class features other than a janky arm.

    Losing your invocations and receiving no EB upgrade? That arm had better be worth it.
    Back to 2d6 every two levels it is then! Maybe I'll leave it jankily written like HW so people can use Legacy Champion with it haha.

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel View Post
    See, now you're on the right path.
    I thought it sounded fun. It's times like this where I miss Zaydos. I tried summoning him once upon a time, but I fear he is lost to us. He would have great ideas for crunchy mechanics that weren't broken.
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    Default Re: Eldritch Prosthetist [Prestige Class] [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by LoyalPaladin View Post
    I thought it sounded fun. It's times like this where I miss Zaydos. I tried summoning him once upon a time, but I fear he is lost to us. He would have great ideas for crunchy mechanics that weren't broken.
    Consider this.

    Remember that thread awhile back on Dragonmarks? Well, there are Dragonmarked PrCs specific to each Mark. At each level you gain new ways to use your existing Mark. Similar idea here.

    Alternatively, look up Master of the Unseen Hand. Admittedly, a terrible class, but with the kind of meat you can use to build something better.

    Or, look up the Bigby's X Hand spells - you know, Interposing Hand, Forceful Hand, etc. Make each of them an at-will move-action you can perform with your janky arm. That sort of thing.

    Heck, with more class levels, this class could do more. Maybe at its peak you could split the arm into multiple arms, each able to attack. Or something.

    Basically, start with any of these ideas. Commit them to paper. Then step back, compare them to similar effects, and determine whether they're broken or not.
    Last edited by Red Fel; 2019-06-27 at 03:00 PM.
    My headache medicine has a little "Ex" inscribed on the pill. It's not a brand name; it's an indicator that it works inside an Anti-Magic Field.

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    Default Re: Eldritch Prosthetist [Prestige Class] [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel View Post
    Consider this.

    Remember that thread awhile back on Dragonmarks? Well, there are Dragonmarked PrCs specific to each Mark. At each level you gain new ways to use your existing Mark. Similar idea here.

    Alternatively, look up Master of the Unseen Hand. Admittedly, a terrible class, but with the kind of meat you can use to build something better.

    Or, look up the Bigby's X Hand spells - you know, Interposing Hand, Forceful Hand, etc. Make each of them an at-will move-action you can perform with your janky arm. That sort of thing.

    Heck, with more class levels, this class could do more. Maybe at its peak you could split the arm into multiple arms, each able to attack. Or something.

    Basically, start with any of these ideas. Commit them to paper. Then step back, compare them to similar effects, and determine whether they're broken or not.
    This is helpful advice. I think, instead of writing mountains of text, I would say "this functions as Bigby's grasping hand" or something like that.

    I would like to focus on Grasping, Warding, Tripping, Helpful, and Forceful.
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    Default Re: Eldritch Prosthetist [Prestige Class] [PEACH]

    Alright. You've now made some changes, I see. Let's have a look.

    Quote Originally Posted by LoyalPaladin View Post
    Level Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Class Features
    1st +1 +0 +2 +2 Eldritch Prosthetic, Tripping Hand
    2nd +2 +0 +3 +3 Learned Resilience, Eldritch Blast 2d6, Warding Hand
    3rd +3 +1 +3 +3 Extend Prosthetic, Forceful Hand
    4th +4 +1 +4 +4 Shape Weapon, Eldritch Blast 4d6, Grasping Hand
    5th +5 +1 +4 +4 Honed Prosthetic, Explosive Hand
    I like that you've upgraded it to 5 levels. I think that's a good size for a niche PrC. I also like that it means 5 levels of full BAB progression - on a Warlock's 3/4 BAB progression, that's a nice boost. So let's see if those five levels are well spent.

    Quote Originally Posted by LoyalPaladin View Post
    Eldritch Prosthetic (Su):
    After practice and research, the Eldritch Prosthetist is able to manifest an arm using his powerful Eldritch Blast as a catalyst.The prosthetic arm can be manifested and dismissed as free actions and remain active so long as the Eldritch Prosthetist wishes and remains conscious.

    The Eldritch Prosthetic becomes increasingly powerful as he increases in level, as noted on the table below.

    Table: Eldritch Prosthetic
    Class Level Usefulness Properties Attack Bonus
    1 Able to grasp tools, and perform mundane tasks. Magic -2
    2 Able to grasp a weapon or strike a foe, but unable to support immense weight or strain. Silver -1
    3 Functions as a normal arm in all ways. Cold Iron +0
    4 Eldritchly reinforced, unable to be sundered, conferring a +4 to all STR and DEX related checks involving the arm. Admantine +1
    5 The conferred bonus to STR and DEX related checks increases to +8. Force +2
    I'd like more distinction between levels 1, 2, and 3. For example, level 1 can perform "mundane tasks," but level 2 can "strike a foe" - does that mean that a level 1 EP cannot use his arm in any way offensively? Similarly, levels 1 and 2 suffer attack penalties, but level 2 also cannot "support immense weight or strain" - does that mean the arm suffers an encumbrance penalty, or can't use a full STR modifier? That said, I like the increasing materials, the inability to sunder (assuming an arm or arm-graft even could be sundered, which I'm not sure), and the increasing modifiers for the last two levels. Those are a nice, if niche, touch. That said, do the STR/DEX bonuses stack in any way with the attack bonuses (e.g. if you gain DEX-to-hit)?

    Quote Originally Posted by LoyalPaladin View Post
    Tripping Hand (Su):
    At 1st level, as a standard action, an Eldritch Prosthetist can use his hand to attempt to trip an opponent. Its attack bonus equals his base attack bonus + his Charisma bonus + the current usefulness bonus the hand receives according to the Eldritch Prosthetic table. The hand receives as additional +1 bonus equal to your current number of Eldritch Blast damage dice.
    Does making this trip attempt provoke an AoO? If you fail, can your opponent immediately attempt to trip you, per the tripping rules?

    Quote Originally Posted by LoyalPaladin View Post
    Learned Resilience (Ex):
    At 2nd level, an Eldritch Prosthetist has worked so hard to power through his disabilities that he has become more resilient to physical damage than most. If an Eldritch Prosthetist's physical ability scores would be damaged or drained, reduce that damage by 2.
    A nice ability. Particularly potent since it applies both to ability drain and ability damage.

    Quote Originally Posted by LoyalPaladin View Post
    Eldritch Blast (Ex):
    At 2nd level, and every two class levels there after, your eldritch blast damage increases by 2d6 points of damage per class level.
    Good progression for a Warlock PrC. Not overpowered, but necessary.

    Quote Originally Posted by LoyalPaladin View Post
    Warding Hand (Su):
    At 2nd level, as a standard action, an Eldritch Prosthetist can interpose his prosthetic between himself and an opponent. The designated opponent must make a Strength check equal to 10 + the Eldritch Prosthetist's Charisma bonus + the current usefulness bonus the hand receives according to the Eldritch Prosthetic table in order to move past the hand. The hand receives as additional +1 bonus equal to your current number of Eldritch Blast damage dice.

    If the opponent does not win the opposed Strength check, he is instead pushed backwards five feet.
    I'd specify that this is between himself and an opponent approaching him. Also, see my comments on Forceful Hand, below.

    Quote Originally Posted by LoyalPaladin View Post
    Extend Prosthetic (Su):
    At 3rd level, an Eldritch Prosthetist is able to extend manifested arm to a length of one-half his Eldritch Blast range. To fully extend and retract the arm, a move action is required, otherwise it is a swift action to do one or the other. The extended prosthetic can be used in any capacity it would be used normally and is seemingly unaffected by the distance, acting as though it were normally attached to the Eldritch Prosthetist.

    Should the Eldritch Prosthetist grasp onto an object, or be otherwise attached via his arm he may attempt to pull the object toward him. If the object is anchored, or otherwise connected to something that weighs fifty or more pounds than the Eldritch Prosthetist, he is pulled towards the object. If it weighs fifty or less pounds than him, it is pulled towards him. If the weight discrepancy is less than fifty pounds in either direction, he must either make a strength check equal to one-half the weight differnence (rounded down) if the object is inanimate, or an opposed Strength check against a creature using his Charisma bonus +1 equal to his current number of Eldritch Blast damage dice
    It took me a few reads to understand the first part - full extension and retraction, in one movement, is a move action, but either one is a swift action. Neat division of actions there. The next part makes this pretty powerful, though - basically, as a move action, you can anchor your arm to something in EB range and move the range of your EB. That's 60 feet, unmodified. There is apparently no limitation on this other than the fact that there must be something heavy on the other end. That's really powerful - not in a bad way - and unique. It's a very clever take on battlefield maneuverability, and I like it.

    It is odd, though, that it takes no STR check for the EP to pull himself a distance, but it takes a STR check to pull on something that weighs slightly less than he does.

    Quote Originally Posted by LoyalPaladin View Post
    Forceful Hand (Su):
    At 3rd level, as a standard action, an Eldritch Prosthetist can attempt to force an opponent backward with his arm. This attack is treated as a bullrush equal to 10 + the Eldritch Prosthetist's Charisma bonus + the current usefulness bonus the hand receives according to the Eldritch Prosthetic table that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. The hand receives as additional +1 bonus equal to your current number of Eldritch Blast damage dice.
    This basically obviates Warding Hand. Same action, same check, same shoving them back, but whereas Warding Hand was a mere 5 foot push, this is a proper bull rush. Perhaps change Warding Hand to be slightly different - like, "Swatting Hand," that lets you perform an opposed check as an AoO to knock the opponent prone (a la Knock Down) or something? Because otherwise this is a straight upgrade.

    Quote Originally Posted by LoyalPaladin View Post
    Shape Prosthetic (Su):
    At 4th level, for a number of rounds equal to his Charisma bonus per day, the Eldritch Prosthetist can shape his manifested arm into any weapon of his choosing. As this is not a truly held weapon, it deals damage as if it were one size category smaller than the Eldritch Prosthetist and only has a range of 5ft even if the shaped weapon has the reach ability.

    Extend Prosthetic can still be used while the weapon is shaped and the Eldritch Prosthetist must be proficient with the weapon just like a regular weapon would require.
    Useful. Although how does this stack up against, say, a Glaivelock? Also, if you extend the prosthetic, is the weapon's reach 5ft of where your arm ends up, or is it still limited to 5ft range of you? Because that's not clear. Also also, "any weapon?" Does that include unique items, or weapons with special properties? And what's the damage on that weapon? In what universe is it better to use this weapon instead of an actual weapon?

    Quote Originally Posted by LoyalPaladin View Post
    Grasping Hand (Su):
    At 4th level, as a standard action, an Eldritch Prosthetist can attempt to grapple an opponent with his arm. This attack is treated as a grapple equal to 10 + the Eldritch Prosthetist's Charisma bonus + the current usefulness bonus the hand receives according to the Eldritch Prosthetic table that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. The hand receives as additional +1 bonus equal to your current number of Eldritch Blast damage dice.
    This is neat. But unless the arm is capable of grappling independently of the wielder, you're still stuck grappling, which is sub-optimal. Maybe give some more concrete benefits, like the Improved Grapple feat, or the Improved Grab feature? Maybe offer additional benefits, like "treat opponents as one size category smaller for grappling purposes" or something? Heck, you could spread the grappling function across multiple levels.

    Quote Originally Posted by LoyalPaladin View Post
    Honed Prosthetic (Ex):
    At 5th level, an Eldritch Prosthetist has become a master of utilizing his prosthetic. When attacking with the Eldritch Prosthetic, he adds his Charisma bonus to both his attack and damage.
    Very useful.

    Quote Originally Posted by LoyalPaladin View Post
    Explosive Hand (Sp):
    At 5th level, as a full-round action, an Eldritch Prosthetist can exert himself, going all-out to take out an opponent. Once per day, the Eldritch Prosthetist can prompt his arm to explode into eldritch energies, striking his foes with a number of Eldritch Blasts equal to his charisma modifier. These Eldritch blasts can all be directed at a single opponent, or can be divided among multiple opponents. After this attack, the Eldritch Prosthetist is exhausted.
    This is really nice. Combined with a good EB progression, this is a nice 1/day nuke, on a class chassis whose DPS is somewhat lackluster. I like it as a capstone ability. That said, a capstone should also capture the essence of the class. Does this? Also, does "prompting his arm to explode" mean that the arm is dismissed?
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    Default Re: Eldritch Prosthetist [Prestige Class] [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel View Post
    Alright. You've now made some changes, I see. Let's have a look.
    Thanks for this in-depth look. I will take this apart one piece at a time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel View Post
    I like that you've upgraded it to 5 levels. I think that's a good size for a niche PrC. I also like that it means 5 levels of full BAB progression - on a Warlock's 3/4 BAB progression, that's a nice boost. So let's see if those five levels are well spent.
    I thought it was helpful, especially if someone decided to grab Hellfire Warlock at some point. That way they're not sinking over 10 levels into PrCs that may or may not be just for flavor.

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel View Post
    I'd like more distinction between levels 1, 2, and 3. For example, level 1 can perform "mundane tasks," but level 2 can "strike a foe" - does that mean that a level 1 EP cannot use his arm in any way offensively? Similarly, levels 1 and 2 suffer attack penalties, but level 2 also cannot "support immense weight or strain" - does that mean the arm suffers an encumbrance penalty, or can't use a full STR modifier? That said, I like the increasing materials, the inability to sunder (assuming an arm or arm-graft even could be sundered, which I'm not sure), and the increasing modifiers for the last two levels. Those are a nice, if niche, touch. That said, do the STR/DEX bonuses stack in any way with the attack bonuses (e.g. if you gain DEX-to-hit)?
    How would you make these more distinct? I figured the attack bonus helped people get the picture a little better. Mostly these are fluff based, but I know mechanics are king in 3.5e.

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel View Post
    Does making this trip attempt provoke an AoO? If you fail, can your opponent immediately attempt to trip you, per the tripping rules?
    I meant to say it did not provoke an AoO or offer a counter-trip. I will amend this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel View Post
    I'd specify that this is between himself and an opponent approaching him. Also, see my comments on Forceful Hand, below.
    I think, after reading your Forceful Hand option, I will change this to Slapping Hand.

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel View Post
    It took me a few reads to understand the first part - full extension and retraction, in one movement, is a move action, but either one is a swift action. Neat division of actions there. The next part makes this pretty powerful, though - basically, as a move action, you can anchor your arm to something in EB range and move the range of your EB. That's 60 feet, unmodified. There is apparently no limitation on this other than the fact that there must be something heavy on the other end. That's really powerful - not in a bad way - and unique. It's a very clever take on battlefield maneuverability, and I like it.
    It is odd, though, that it takes no STR check for the EP to pull himself a distance, but it takes a STR check to pull on something that weighs slightly less than he does.
    I will attempt to clear up the language here so it isn't so hard.

    I would like to offer an option for a STR check when its opposed or perhaps not heavy enough to pull the EP towards it. Thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel View Post
    This basically obviates Warding Hand. Same action, same check, same shoving them back, but whereas Warding Hand was a mere 5 foot push, this is a proper bull rush. Perhaps change Warding Hand to be slightly different - like, "Swatting Hand," that lets you perform an opposed check as an AoO to knock the opponent prone (a la Knock Down) or something? Because otherwise this is a straight upgrade.
    Doing this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel View Post
    Useful. Although how does this stack up against, say, a Glaivelock? Also, if you extend the prosthetic, is the weapon's reach 5ft of where your arm ends up, or is it still limited to 5ft range of you? Because that's not clear. Also also, "any weapon?" Does that include unique items, or weapons with special properties? And what's the damage on that weapon? In what universe is it better to use this weapon instead of an actual weapon?
    They could extend this as far as they can with Extend Prosthetic and fight with the 5ft range. Maybe I can borrow some language from the Master of the Unseen Hand here.

    All weapons should have the same qualities as the arm.

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel View Post
    This is neat. But unless the arm is capable of grappling independently of the wielder, you're still stuck grappling, which is sub-optimal. Maybe give some more concrete benefits, like the Improved Grapple feat, or the Improved Grab feature? Maybe offer additional benefits, like "treat opponents as one size category smaller for grappling purposes" or something? Heck, you could spread the grappling function across multiple levels.
    I think that I would like this to be able to function like the actual Grasping Hand spell, but medium. Is there a way to do this easily?

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel View Post
    This is really nice. Combined with a good EB progression, this is a nice 1/day nuke, on a class chassis whose DPS is somewhat lackluster. I like it as a capstone ability. That said, a capstone should also capture the essence of the class. Does this? Also, does "prompting his arm to explode" mean that the arm is dismissed?
    Okay. This is good insight here. The arm should be dismissed. Personally, if I wanted it to sound super taxing, I would say dismissed until you are no longer exhausted. But that is a big hit when your flavor is based on the arm...
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    Default Re: Eldritch Prosthetist [Prestige Class] [PEACH]

    I think this is a very cool and evocative idea for a PrC, and certainly fits as an extension of the Warlock class, flavorwise. I had a bunch of notes, but then I read through all the changes you two discussed, and with those, I think it feels basically complete.

    The only other notes I had were mostly on wording and phrasing, but please disregard if that's not important to you (which is entirely fair). I feel like "Eldritch Prostheticist" sounds more correct than "Eldritch Prosthetist", and I'd choose the former over the latter for a name. There's also some confusion in the ability descriptions, where you shift between referring to the character in the third person, i.e. "the eldritch prosthetist", etc., and then suddenly you're referring to them in the second person, i.e. "you", and so on.

    Mostly, these are just minor nitpicks though. The flavor and mechanics of this are dope, and makes me really wanna try to play this, if I can ever get my table back together. So, awesome job overall!
    Last edited by Ethereal Gears; 2019-06-28 at 06:48 PM.

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    Default Re: Eldritch Prosthetist [Prestige Class] [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal Gears View Post
    I think this is a very cool and evocative idea for a PrC, and certainly fits as an extension of the Warlock class, flavorwise. I had a bunch of notes, but then I read through all the changes you two discussed, and with those, I think it feels basically complete.
    I appreciate this! I'll be working on it more soon. I tend to neglect GitP on the weekends.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal Gears View Post
    The only other notes I had were mostly on wording and phrasing, but please disregard if that's not important to you (which is entirely fair). I feel like "Eldritch Prostheticist" sounds more correct than "Eldritch Prosthetist", and I'd choose the former over the latter for a name. There's also some confusion in the ability descriptions, where you shift between referring to the character in the third person, i.e. "the eldritch prosthetist", etc., and then suddenly you're referring to them in the second person, i.e. "you", and so on.
    Please nitpick things that are confusing. I'd like to get them as fluid as possible.

    I wanted Eldritch Prostheticist, but Prosthetist is the actual term... and it wounds me...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal Gears View Post
    Mostly, these are just minor nitpicks though. The flavor and mechanics of this are dope, and makes me really wanna try to play this, if I can ever get my table back together. So, awesome job overall!
    This is what every homebrewer wants to hear, I think! So I truly thank you for your kind words!
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    Default Re: Eldritch Prosthetist [Prestige Class] [PEACH]

    Oh, well, TIL, I could've sworn it was Prostheticist. Well, carry on then! :)

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    Default Re: Eldritch Prosthetist [Prestige Class] [PEACH]

    I was going to wait to respond until you made your changes. But since it looks like you haven't yet, I'll just jump in here.

    Quote Originally Posted by LoyalPaladin View Post
    How would you make these more distinct? I figured the attack bonus helped people get the picture a little better. Mostly these are fluff based, but I know mechanics are king in 3.5e.
    I've always felt that fluff should serve crunch. Describing the arm as being somewhat not-yet-stable as an explanation for the reduced attack bonus is sufficient; more than that just seems to be solving a problem that doesn't exist.

    If, on the other hand, you want to describe it as having specific deficiencies, I'd suggest the following:
    • At level 1, while the arm has the general structure of an arm, the EP has not yet mastered its use. As such, it cannot perform more than simple tasks - lifting, holding, pulling or pushing objects. The arm cannot wield a weapon, and the EP is treated as nonproficient in the use of any weapon held by it, even if he would otherwise be proficient. Additionally, the EP takes -4 to any DEX- or STR-based skill checks made with the arm, as it is clumsy and weak.
    • At level 2, the EP's mastery of the arm has improved. The EP can now perform any task with the arm that he could with his real arm. However, it is still undeveloped, and he suffers -2 to any DEX- or STR-based skill checks made with it.
    • At level 3, the EP has fully mastered his new limb. He no longer takes the previous penalties to its use, and can wield it as a normal arm.

    That's only if you want to, of course. The fact is, your previous flavor text suggested some kind of penalty - this is what it would look like. But doing this would actually penalize the character for taking the class (until later, when those penalties become bonuses). So that's something you have to decide.

    Quote Originally Posted by LoyalPaladin View Post
    I would like to offer an option for a STR check when its opposed or perhaps not heavy enough to pull the EP towards it. Thoughts?
    My suggestion? Make it a STR check regardless of weight, then just add modifiers. For example, if the EP is trying to pull himself towards a heavier object, it's a pretty easy one; if he's trying to pull an object towards him, make it a STR check based on size, with Tiny objects offering an automatic success. This means he could even attempt to pull Huge objects, albeit at penalty. Which is still a neat power if he can succeed.

    Make sure the check does not provoke AoOs. Similarly, I think that moving through an enemy's space in this fashion should not provoke AoOs, because it is awesome and an AoO ruining it would suck. Also, decide whether you want to let him take 10. (That could even be a level 5 ability, taking 10 even in combat.)

    Quote Originally Posted by LoyalPaladin View Post
    They could extend this as far as they can with Extend Prosthetic and fight with the 5ft range. Maybe I can borrow some language from the Master of the Unseen Hand here.
    Then I would specify under the Extend Prosthetic section that any weapon wielded by the arm while extended threatens a range based on the arm's location, or something to that effect.

    Quote Originally Posted by LoyalPaladin View Post
    All weapons should have the same qualities as the arm.
    So basically, at level 5, a weapon would be a +2 Magic Silver Cold Iron Adamantine Force weapon. Whole lot of material modifiers, but only +2 enhancement, and only Force as a special ability. While I love the "never unarmed" aspect of it, let's be honest, what melee-lock would use this weapon?

    Consider. Eldritch Glaive is a Blast Shape - that is, it modifies the form your Eldritch Blast takes. You can take a full-round action to make as many attacks with your Eldritch Glaive as your BAB allows. But your EG makes touch attacks - as in, ignoring armor-based AC - and deals damage as your EB would, complete with Blast Essence modifications. In terms of damage alone, an Eldritch Glaive is head and shoulders above this arm-weapon, especially since it performs touch attacks. And on top of that, you can add Blast Essences.

    The Glaivelock (or the Clawlock, but let's avoid that) is the hallmark of melee-locks. If you're making a melee-lock class, you have to justify why anyone would choose this class over literally just taking one Blast Shape.

    Quote Originally Posted by LoyalPaladin View Post
    I think that I would like this to be able to function like the actual Grasping Hand spell, but medium. Is there a way to do this easily?
    Literally just describe what you want to do.

    First of all, it's worth noting that, by its text, Grasping Hand replaces both Interposing Hand and Forceful Hand - it specifies that it does exactly what they do but has additional features. Again, you don't necessarily want an ability that simply replaces a previous class feature, unless you're adding functions - first, the arm can do this, then it can also do this, and later it can also also do this.

    Now, if what you want is "the actual Grasping Hand spell, but medium," then... I have no idea what you're saying. What are you saying?

    Quote Originally Posted by LoyalPaladin View Post
    Okay. This is good insight here. The arm should be dismissed. Personally, if I wanted it to sound super taxing, I would say dismissed until you are no longer exhausted. But that is a big hit when your flavor is based on the arm...
    Well, you could put it on a timer - say, the arm cannot be manifested for XdY rounds. Or, instead of rounds, just say that "once this ability is used, the arm cannot be manifested until after the current encounter." Or, you could go with your instincts - keep that it exhausts you - but add to the original language about manifesting or dismissing as a free action that "an EP cannot manifest his arm while exhausted."

    Or, just don't penalize the character for using a capstone ability. He can use his free action on his next turn to manifest the arm again.
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