Books or Blasting?

[Vulion]

Well here's the situation, I plan on playing a Sun Elf wizard who is gonna multiclass at level ten to a prestige class. I narrowed down the classes to two: Loremaster or Archmage. I'm not sure which class I should take.

I would like you're opinions with this matter.

[Kurald Galain]

Archmage is far better, hands down.

However, you can't take it at level ten.

Also, why not take both?

[Raolin_Fenix]

For my part, I'd go with Archmage. The benefits are more immediate and, I feel, way more buff than those of the Loremaster. As a wizard (especially a tenth-level wizard), I would much rather have a bunch of extremely useful boosts to my spellcasting than four ranks of a skill in which I don't have any ranks yet... three bonus HP... a +2 on one save at a time... a +1 bonus on attack rolls... a +1 bonus to AC... a bonus feat... or an extra first- or second-level spell penned in my book (I can just buy a scroll and copy it).

The Bardic Knowledge aspect is useful, depending on the campaign. Same with the Free Identify At Will and the Free Analyze Dwoemer / Legend Lore Once Per Day. But again, that depends heavily on the campaign. In the first instance, it'll only serve to save you some money.

So in essence, the only things really worth having in the Loremaster class are, in my opinion, the Bardic Knowledge and the capstone True Lore. Whereas with the archmage, you can take its "capstone" (whatever you think it is) whenever you want. Not every one of the archmage's abilities are awesome, but a number of them are. And all of them are useful.

That being said, however, the archmage is a great PrC to dip into, if you can afford the feats. So start your Loremaster progression early (eighth level), then take two or three levels of Archmage as soon as you qualify, then finish up your Loremaster progression. The only thing these two PrCs lose, compared to the wizard, is a couple bonus metamagic feats; there's really no reason not to take either of them.

But if it's one or the other, yeah. Mechanically speaking, definitely go Archmage.

Depending on your character flavor, though, mechanics aren't important. If your wizard's a huge nerd, go with a loremaster, by all means!

[Closet_Skeleton]

Loremaster isn't the most optimum choice as a Prc by any standards but it doesn't really hurt a build much at all. You have no reason not to go loremaster before you become an archmage.

[Yuki Akuma]

Loremaster is good. Archmage is better. If at all possible, take both.

Unless your DM says "only one PrC", in which case, Archmage. And, no, Archmages don't have to be blasters if they don't want to be.

Remember: If you're playing a Wizard with no particular end goal in mind, there is absolutely no reason not to take five levels of Archmage.

[TheOOB]

As stated above, always try to fit as many archmage levels as possible. A 10 wizard/5 loremaster/5 archmage would be something to fear, thats for sure. It can be worth knocking down your levels in archmage to get all 10 of the levels in a prestige class that you qualify for past level 5, but truth be told the loremasters capstone is hardly impressive, and not worth dumping perfect ally good wizard levels.

Archmages also are not just for blasting, arcane reach is amazingly useful for getting those touch spells out without putting you in danger, spell-like ability with a good escape spell (greater teleport comes to mind) can save your life (remember, SLAs have no components), and Spell Power is good no matter who you are.

Mastery of Elements and Shaping are both fairly blaster oriented, though shaping can be used for non damage area spells (solid fog anyone?). Arcane Fire is acually best for none blasters, as it gives you the ability to do damage with a spell without acually needed to prepare damage dealing spells.

[DraPrime]

As everyone said, Archmage. The benefits are much better.

[Vulion]

Thanks for your advice everyone.

[Starbuck_II]

Loremaster isn't the most optimum choice as a Prc by any standards but it doesn't really hurt a build much at all. You have no reason not to go loremaster before you become an archmage.

+1 dodge bonus AC is nice in my opinion. I mean, other than haste: what else gives dodge versus all attackers?

Granted, that is just one good ability.

[The Neoclassic]

I like loremaster, but I'd say go with whichever fits your roleplaying ideas better (if you have any). Archmage may be better in battle, but loremaster has its benefits as well. Don't roast me for this please, it's just my two copper and I'm not an optimizer (though, no, I don't make weak characters on purpose either).

[Chronos]

The real key with Loremaster is that it costs almost nothing to get in. A tenth-level wizard is guaranteed to have item creation or metamagic feats required, and probably at earlier levels. And most wizards will take a couple of knowledge skills anyway. So that just leaves one additional feat (knowledge skill focus) you need to take to qualify, and one of the Loremaster secrets gives you back a feat to make up for it (plus you still get the benefits of the "wasted" skill focus feat, for what it's worth). In addition, you get more skill points, Lore, and assorted other benefits. And most importantly of all, you get full wizard spells. So the benefits are low, but the drawbacks are basically nonexistant, and it's easily worth the cost.

[Kaelik]

Loremaster Bonus Feat is very good. If you have nothing other then Core you have in effect bought your way into Loremaster at the price of a feat (Skill Focus (Knowledge)) and then replaced that lost feat at a higher level (when you meet more pre reqs, aka better.) Of course that Skill Focus is also a pre req for Archmage, so in effect you get an extra feat, and you go Wizard X/Loremaster X/Archmage 5/Loremaster Y.

Where X is the minimum to reach your next class and Y is whatever is left over.

EDIT: To the Ninja go the spoils.

[Chronos]

Of course that Skill Focus is also a pre req for Archmage, so in effect you get an extra feat, and you go Wizard X/Loremaster X/Archmage 5/Loremaster Y.

No, Loremaster requires a skill focus in Knowledge, while Archmage requires it in Spellcraft. So there's no overlap there. There is still an advantage in delaying the feat, though.

[LordLocke]

The only reason I could see not to go Loremaster if you want it is if you actually care about your... er... wossname... FAMILIAR, yeah!

As you can see, that's rarely the case for me. Getting out of Wizard before 11 means you lose out on your Familiar's 'capstone' power. Otherwise, if you're already going to grab most of the prereqs (Three Metamagic or Item Creation? You probably are) then I can't see why not if you want it.

Then go into Archmage when you got the rest of the prereqs for it (Lv 7 Arcane, 15 Skill ranks? It'll be a bit)

[tannish2]

well i like mage of the arcane order for annoying the rest of the party. or initiate of the sevenfold veil for pure cheese. but core only archmage is the only good wizard PrC, and i only do it for a dip.

[psychoticbarber]

well i like mage of the arcane order for annoying the rest of the party. or initiate of the sevenfold veil for pure cheese. but core only archmage is the only good wizard PrC, and i only do it for a dip.

I dunno, I rather like Loremaster, but mostly for fluff reasons. I'm just that kinda guy, I guess.

Archmage is mechanically superior, though, if that's what you're going for.